Ireland: 'Ted Ginn is a player I like very much'

awwwww man Padre that is classic.....ugh!! remember "your going to like his family...." to this day when we watch Ginn we call him "The Family".....more often than not it will be in the mid-3rd QTR.....and it is a big spot, and right before the ball is snapped someone always goes..."Where's the f**king family?"

 

Ginn is making just above 1 mil in base salary in 2010. the signing bonus really is irrelevant without a CBA. i don't think it's cost-prohibitive to keep Ginn at 1 mil.

 

who cares about people in the pre-season, they say that crap to get some competition going, and again they have to cut somebody in the pre-season I'm talking during the season, and times like now leading up to the draft....and actually Roth and Miami had a blow out if you remember, then he was cut...Roth hid an injury from them, came at them in August, and had to go on the PUP....I had high hopes for Roth, he had a mean streak...

 

killing me prez!! bring back Donnie Jones!!!

 

Me I will, I'm done with The Family, I will just label him inconsistent at that point. Everything has to be perfect in order for him to do something with the football, blocking, the play has to go off exactly while the defense get confused. The guy can't make his own play like Cribbs, or Ray Rice, or Brandon. Those guys get the ball in traffic and make sh*t happen...What was Ginn YAC on his blistering 35 catches this year hmm? I dont know off hand, but it was probably one of the lowest in the league for number 1's and 2's for that matter. Listen it is fact/reality whatever you want to call it, the guy simply isn't a good football player on the NFL level. I get that he is a good guy, he is, he work his butt off but reality is reality...

He will be here next year and we will see what the "magical" fourth year brings.....Look at V-Jax the guy started 7 games his rookie year, then 16 the rest of the way, his 4th year, 3rd as a starter he got over a 1000 yards and 7 TD's, the Family doesnt have that in 3 years....he doesn't have the skill set other than straight line speed to be successful in the pros...

 

Obviously this could be smoke and mirrors but if you look at the quotes about Roth and Eric Green - there was no mention of the future or their role. Look at what Ireland said about Ginn -

"That explosiveness is why he has a place on this team. When you’ve got a player that is that explosive and can turn a game around, you’ve got to give him chances. You’ve got to let him grow. You’ve got to let him gain his confidence back."

The phrases "place on this team", "let him grow", and "let him gain his confidence back" all imply things they are looking to happen next year.

It seems if they were just pumping up his trade value they would use language they used for Green and Roth about working hard and looking good in practice.

 

I for one wouldn't mind keeping him around... As a number 3 or 4 guy and a situational player with the adjusted salary of such. He has talent, just not as a #1 WR.

 

regardless if he is or isn't afraid, they wont cut him brother, they owe too much money.....if they cut Ginn now the cap hit would be enormous, to be paid all at once this coming year....its either trade or nothing...then again if there is no cap you don't have to worry about the cap hit....wonder if they cut him if there is no cap...?

 

With all due respect, he is afraid adamprez2003. He's afraid of contact. He plays scared. It's quite obvious. At least, it is to me. And, if you can't see that (or don't want to), well...there's nothing I can say or do to change that.

 

That's your opinion, don't treat it as fact. When there's a tool to measure player toughness other than your own eyes, then I'll consider retracting my statement.

 

If Ginn has a good year next year, then I would say that THIS year was the aberration. Really, it was only part of this year since he made really nice catches when thrown to in the last five games or so.

Some say Ginn plays scared...I say he plays smart. What good is he to the TEAM if he goes for the extra yard or two, and ends up layed out like Pat White? The dude isn't built to take hits.

I fully expect to see Ginn in a Dolphins jersey next year.

 

I think if you re-read my previous post GIK, you'll see I wrote:

Which, I would think pretty clearly states it is my opinion, not a fact. Maybe I should typed in IMHO. My bad if I wasn't clear enough.

And, no...there's no "tool" as you put it. Just my eyes, and a brain that still has some gray matter in it...lol. Look brother, I've been watching pro football for a long time now. And, I honestly cannot remember the last time I've seen a player so afraid to be on the football field, and so afraid of contact. And, that is my biggest knock on Ginn. He plays like a little girl. If he'd at least stay in bounds and fight for the "hard" YAC maybe I wouldn't be so quick to criticize him. I'd be more willing to accept his other short comings (maybe). But, his game play speaks for itself (again, let me stipulate...JMHO).

Look man, we are both fans of the same team, or we wouldn't be here. I think it's safe to say we both want The Miami Dolphins to be successful, to win games, to get back to and win another SB. But, how we go about doing it is where we may disagree. But, hey...that's OK. That's what makes being on a fan board so worthwhile. We may not agree, but we can certainly be respectful of each others opinions. No matter what side of the discussion you might be on, and no matter what we might be discussing/debating. So, no...you don't need to worry about retracting your statement, 'cause I sure as hell ain't retracting mine.

Peace bro.

Post edited at the request of GridIronKing34

 

You are absolutely off-point. This is about the impression a coach can give to the media about a particular player (and in this case, Jeff Ireland), regardless of the circumstances leading up to that player eventually getting dropped.

Sparano can do that at times. Maybe this is what Ireland is doing??? I do not know, but can only guess.

Again, this is not about the circumstances leading up to a player being let go, but rather, what Sparano has said about a player prior to that player being given a ticket to ride.

Remember, Sparano does not always give his players props via the media. His policy is to not really get on his players through the media, but rather saying something along the lines of, "Well, Player A could have done a better job at....".

So when we hear, "Player A had some very good plays", we would assume that Player A is out of the doghouse. Not always the case with this regime.

 

there's a difference between unwarranted fear and an understanding that you're a little guy playing with very violent and big people. Obviously he ducks out of bounds and avoids contact almost religously. The point is that is not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself. There are times when he leaves yards out there but overall 75% of the time he is making the right decision avoiding the big hits. if you already have the first down and you leave 5 yards on the field but avoid a major collision I'm cool with it. If you scamper out of bounds before you get the first when taking the hit could have gotten you the first then you screwed up. He has done that but its rare overall. Thats really the thing. His physical makeup forces him to have to avoid taking on the big hits otherwise he'll never finish a season and he has been virtually injury free for three years straight. What I want to see is him improve his recognition of when to keep plays going but I dont want him to play the game trying to prove his toughness like Pat White just recently did. There is room for improvement but I object to a charecterization that paints him as a coward. You run a crossing pattern staring at the QB knowing full well there are 260 lb linebackers roaming around who would like nothing better than to lay you out and get on the ESPN highlights. He can do it and if you can do that I will never call you a coward

 

pretty myuuch the same stuff we been preaching all year. Glad Ireland listens to us

 

So you're the one that told him to draft Pat White, aren't you?



My guess is that Ireland will be shopping him this off season and try to get at least a 4th rounder. If that fails he's here at least another year. But I do have a feeling they would just like to move on if they can.

 

At least we talked him out of drafting Pat White's family!

 

Tell me how many times in the 3 season's in Miami he was a legitimate deep threat ? Defenders have laughed and mocked him saying how easy he is to knock off his route. As far as returns go if you took away the one Jets game where he returned 2 for td's what would you have left ? It's time to end the Cameron nightmare and move on....Bye Bye Ginn...

 

Where do you get the feeling that they're shopping him for a fourth? I really, really doubt that our FO is as myopic as fans, and that they are simply looking at what he did THIS YEAR and deciding what to do with Ginn. I think that they would more than likely look at his whole body of work, which was really pretty good, until early in this season when the drops hit. He had showed nice progression each season prior. This year, he ran pretty good routes, and was open...he just was dropping balls (no homo). Towards the end of the year, he made some really nice catches. He's shown flashes in several games, even the Indy game this year, that he can be a real factor for us. Ginn has had a ton of hate thrown his way by fans since the very second he was drafted...and this season actually gave those disgruntled fans something tangible to latch onto, but I doubt very much that our FO sees it the same way. I could be wrong, though. All that being said, I just don't see them getting rid of Ginn when they have no other receiver on the roster who can be a threat to stretch the field like Ginn. IF they go out and get a true number one, I would sill expect Ginn to be here, as that is the perfect situation for him to succeed.

 

You guys crack me up with how far you'll stretch to try to defend a bad player.

If it oinks, has a curly tail and makes good bacon, what's wrong with calling it a pig? It is what it is.

My guess is that the Tri is waiting to see how the CBA thing works out; if this really is an uncapped year, I would expect to see some heavy purging of future cap liabilities like Ginn and Joey Porter - either via trade or release.

Next up: Grassy Knoll: Gunman or Shadow?

 

There is a big difference between stepping out of bounds a couple steps before you get hit and looking for the sidelines as soon as you catch the ball. To me its pretty obvious Ginn looks for the sidelines when he should be looking for the endzone.

 

Your opinion is your opinion, I have no problem with that. However when you say as "if you choose not to see it or acknowledge it," then it's an entirely different story... All you have to do is remove that one statement... then IMO, your post reflects an opinion... which is perfectly fine.

I'm not saying Ted Ginn is a tough player by most standards, however I think we just go to the extremes to speak on his toughness, or lack there of.

 

I'm not sure if anybody has mentioned it but this interview from November.

 

Tell me how many times Pennington would have actually thrown deep. Tell me how many times our QB had time to wait for deep routes to develop. We know that the coaches had Henne programmed to throw the ball in 3 seconds.

How is taking away his good returns some sort of an argument? W might as well add in the returns his first two years that were called back by crappy penalty calls. The fact is, he DID make those returns this year, and you can't take them away.

 

There are different ways to avoid a hit. Some players duck and juke and fake and slip and slide and dodge, and if they escape, take it upfield for extra yards. Mr. Ginn goes for the sideline every damned time. He wants to end the play before he is touched. He does not want to break one as much as he wants to ensure that he's not going to get hit. Believe the evidence of your eyes.

Having said that, why dump a good kick returner?

 

It cracks me up how far people will go to tear down a player that, other than a few game stretch this year, didn't look bad.

I think almost everyone on the pro-Ginn side is saying he has potential and lets see if it pans out.

The "less optimistic" Ginn side have said things like -

His drops were worse than Bess' fumbles.

He has 3 drops for every catch.

He lost more games for us than he won.

He only had one good game as a returner.


If we get someone else who can do what Ginn can do then I am fine with cutting him loose. I just don't think there have been realistic expectations for Ginn (looking at his draft position and not his skill set). I posted a link earlier that shows that over 20% of receivers drafted between 1998-2005 had their breakout season in their 4th year. Ginn's improved ability to get separation would make him deadly if his head is back in the game. The Houston game made me think he has that confidence back.

 

In terms of Ginn running for the sidelines - does anyone have any video of this?

I don't mean this as an attack - but other than the few bombs it seemed that he almost exclusively ran come-backs and outs towards the sideline that weren't exactly providing opportunities other than going out of bounds.

 

That's right it was Penningtons fault Ginn failed
It was Hennes fault Ginn failed too
and oh yes the officials fault Ginn doesn't have more td returns.
Poor Ted Ginn is just a victim, give him a raise.

 

you are projecting IMO. Ireland and Sparano have me believing they are seeing the same thing I saw. They basically are hitting all the talking points the Ginn apologists have said all year. Its a bit of a stretch to believe that's all some incredible bluff.

I am generally a 3 year rule guy but I saw enough in Ginn this year that I'm willing to break that and give him one last year to elevate to where I think he should or could be. It is the last year however. He cant go through the 4 game collapse he did this again. I think Ireland and Sparano have pretty much mirrored that view in their statements this year. I dont think they are really shopping him. Not because it couldnt be done but rather because there simply isnt any way to replace his speed either through free agency or the draft. I know you dont value it but I think Ireland and Sparano see the way he helps the offensive scheme even if he isnt contributing. Speed is everything in football. It really covers up for alot

an no I didnt want Pat White originally I actually named him as the one pick I least wanted prior to the draft (and I had him as a 4th rounder ) in a thread that had everyone put down their least and most desired potential draft picks. Vontae was my number one pick of player I wanted and I was doing cartwheels when we announced him, then 10 picks or so later we announce Pat White

Still, a few years ago I came to the realization that my desires for a team were not necessariuly what would fit scheme wise for others and since then I give a wide swath of acceptance to others choices so we'll see what becomes of Pat White. Lets just say I'm hopeful and leave it at that

 

Yeah, cause that's what I'm saying. I'm totally saying that Ginn's drops this year were other people's faults. Grow up. If you're gonna dog Ginn for no deep balls, or very few, then a decent understanding of other factors that affect him that are out of his control is necessary.

 

yes but the "you guys" reflects the organizations view point now. You have Ireland and Sparano now mirroring "our side" in their statements. Like you said if it oinks, has a curly tail and makes good bacon whats wrong with saying that the organization is giving Ginn another year to prove himself rather than going through the conspiracy rationalization of they are really playing poker and waiting to see the CBA. The grassy knoll is now populated by the side that wants to see Ginn gone. Our side is officially part of the official storyline

 

The FO can "say" anything; we'll see what they "do."

 

agreed

 

Will put some of those called back TD's on the ref's, the rest of it you are pretty much correct.

3 TD returns called back on penalties?

What are the odds of that happening?

 

well you would hope his numbers would have been up if he is running high percentage routes

i usually am not one for stats but Ginn this season

12 games with 2 catches or less
38 receptions 454 yds 1 TD
those numbers are telling
he disappears or we just dont trust getting the ball to him
you decide...

against indy he put up his only real good game of the season
11 catches but dropped the 12th that could have been the game winner

 

Post edited GIK.

 

It's obvious he isn't a number 1 receiver, but I also feel he should stay on this team and I hope he does. Leave him as the kick returner because he does have the speed to break a couple for touchdowns. See how he does in training camp and pre-season and see if he has some confidence back. If we can upgrade our wide receivers then I think Ginn will do better without so much pressure on him.

 

...and the 13th, and the 14th. IIRC he had 3 drops in that game, 2 for TDs. Or was that another game?

 

Watch any game from this season.

He does it on kick returns too.

 

Well, he had the one in the first half that was just out of his reach...that all the Ginn haters labeled a drop. He also had the one at the end that should have been caught...of course, since we're playing this game, it should also have been PI, and it should have been thrown much earlier, like when Ginn broke free of his man, instead of Pennington getting it there late, making Ginn go up for a jump ball. So, while he should have caught it, there were several other things that also went wrong on that play.