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Dolphins QB Pat White Unfiltered

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ATVZ400, Jan 14, 2010.

  1. MrPaul13

    MrPaul13 Banned

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    Bart Starr had a wet noodle for an arm,and last I checked also has a bust in Canton.
     
  2. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    To be honest I was not overwhelmed when we drafted Chad Henne.

    But you have to take into account the differences between the colleges and conferences.

    Chad Henne played in the Big Ten against major colleges. Tim Tebow played in the SEC, the toughest conference in the nation.

    Pat White played in the "Big" East. It is not even close.
     
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  3. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    Not sure but I think Bart Starr played in the 1960's. There is a slight difference between the game now and the game 40 years ago.
     
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  4. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Does it really matter now what happened during college days :no:
     
  5. MrPaul13

    MrPaul13 Banned

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    Based on what,his body of work in college and the combine,or 3 passes from a gimmick formation?
     
  6. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    This is rediculous. Guys, he's a rookie playing in his first year. Give him time before we make decisions about him.
     
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  7. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    He's not a bust after one year.

    He's a bust because he was a bust from the day that he was drafted to play a position to which he is not suited.

    Cracks me up; it's like a team that runs a 3-4, but draft a Linebacker who played a 4-3 his whole career, and who is undersized for a 3-4 LB, and he fails with them; well, what did you EXPECT the outcome would be, DUMMY?!

    Now...put White at Receiver if he bulks up 10 pounds or so - in MUSCLE, and we'll see what we have then.

    You can keep ignoring the numbers that comprise the odds - that NO STARTING QB IN THE NFL HAS THE COMBINATION OF DEFICIENCIES THAT PAT WHITE HAS - but that won't change that fact; nor the fact that that's not some random cosmic convergence - IT IS THE WAY OF THE LEAGUE AND WITH GOOD REASON.
     
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  8. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    There you go again using those fancy "facts" and logic again! :up:
     
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  9. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Bro.... he has shown in the Combine that he has potential to play QB. Come talk to me when he doesn't do anything for the next two years. But until then, it's way to early for this whole "He only did horrible in a handful of games, let's give up on him" schtick.
     
  10. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Unfortunately for Pat White, I don't think he's going to get a lot of options.

    Henne is going into year 3, after commanding the offense without need for the Wildcat, or any sort of "trickery." for the last half of the year with a totally dinged up team, and a defense that just did not show up for entire halves of games.

    What I suspect happening is Henne goes to serious work on the offseason (Just like, I think it was Vontae, asking for every pass that went his way, I remember hearing Henne asked for similar tapes to study). If Henne does that, there really is no need for Pat White. We gradually evolve into a traditional offense and keep running a power run formation out of the Wildcat.

    I think having Pat out there helped Henne with the extra conversation he needed to reason out the things he was seeing and understand the opposing defenses. However, I think that now that he's got a year under his belt, those mini-timeouts aren't going to be important, and he's going to play in a manner that makes the coaches think "Why are we taking him out of the game for this play again?"

    Maybe part of that is just hopefulness, but I just was barely able to understand bringing Pat White in this year from time to time. But next year I really see no benefit honestly.
     
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  11. MrPaul13

    MrPaul13 Banned

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    Here's some facts and logic for you
    Who was the highest rated QB in the NFL this year?
    Who is he exactly the same size as?With less pure athletic ability?
    This will come to you eventually
     
  12. MrPaul13

    MrPaul13 Banned

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    Oh yeah another thing to consider,who was one of the most succesful organizations in the 90's?
    And even though they had this guy named Brett Favre(0-5 his rookie year btw)they drafted QB's allmost every other year.
    Why?
    Because teams would overspend to get their hands on those guys after they had had a few years of seasoning behind Favre,the same way KC WAY overspent to get ahold of Cassell
     
  13. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    The only thing Pat White has in common with Bart Starr is the word "bust."
     
  14. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    did you even watch pat white in the steeler game when he came in and actual had to pretend to be a real QB
    he was absolutely lost physically and mentally
    the guy doesnt have the sizeto play QB in the NFL he looks like a high school kid
    every defense he faces will stack him
    hell pitt had what looked to be all 11 guys up at the los
    pat white scares no one on the football field but himself
    god forbid he ever gets enough reps for the game to slow down for him he is still going to struggle because his arm accuracy is god awful
    sorry man but your boy is not going to cut it in the mans league
     
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  15. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    Again, in White's (or most QB's) case it has little to do with height or how fast someone they can run. The NFL today has to do with passing ability.

    Dan Marino was not a runner, he was a passer.
     
  16. Speedy

    Speedy Dolfan forever! :-)

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    That's exactly what I think. So far he didn't really have a chance to prove himself. If it's still the same with him after the next two years, we can talk again. You have to give him a chance. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I HOPE to God he doesn't get another chance, because if he does it will be because our starting QB is injured and we were stupid enough to make White 2nd string again.
     
  18. Speedy

    Speedy Dolfan forever! :-)

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    Well, maybe he gets a chance for another reason, at least in pre-season (for sure).

    But you have to admit that you have to give him a chance. :yes:
     
  19. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I'm not calling White a bust yet, but comparing him to guys like Bart Starr, Bob Griese, etc because of size is laughable. The game has changed so much since then. Yes QBs were smaller, but so was every other position.
     
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  20. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    I do not have to give him anything. And I would not. He needs to earn it over the off season.

    However, I'm sure this coaching will to a certain amount. I'm amazed (stunned) that they gave him as many plays as they did when it seemed clear he was out of his league. After he one hopped that very easy "confidence building pass" against the Steelers I'm sure his stock in their minds went way down.

    Any "noodle armed" QB could have completed that one.

    If he was a 4-5th round pick he might not have never seen the field and probably would never see it again as a QB. But the chances any player gets depends a lot on when he was drafted and how much his contract is.

    Just look at T.Ginn, J.Allen and G.Wilson.

    As far as I'm concerned, he OWES us. He needs to get off his "QB only" stance and do whatever he needs to do to make this team next year at any position.

    Right now I'd like our QBs to be Henne, Thigpen and Pennington. Or Henne, Thigpen and someone besides Pat White.

    IMO, Thigpen would have been a much much bigger threat this year as a Wildcat QB. And I believe that one of the reasons that we did not play Thigpen over White was that Thigpen could run a whole NFL Offense and White could not. If Henne was hurt and and then Thigpen got hurt we would be screwed.

    Anyway, I'm going to give this a rest until training camp but I expect to read about him at least trying to run some pass routes.
     
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  21. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Pat White is that the best case scenario on this team is backup QB.
     
  22. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    No, I think best case scenario is active WR.
     
  23. MrPaul13

    MrPaul13 Banned

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    Which is of course why the number one ranked QB in the NFL is the EXACT same height.
    Not similar height
    The EXACT same height
    And like or not,Brees right now is sitting at the top of the food chain.
    Joey Harrington and AJ Feeley are barely still even of the food chain anymore
     
  24. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Yeah...you should play roulette; the odds are even worse than 32:1. You'd love it.
     
  25. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

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    The guy showed us a few things.
    1. He has speed
    2.He can't throw worth a crap
    3. He is one tough cookie
    I would put him in the slot to catch balls in the middle of the field kind of like Wes Welker, I don't even see him as a 2nd string qb as Thigpen is a much better Qb.
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Already have a slot Wr.

    It makes far more sense to develop White as a Qb.
     
  27. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Only if you want to put him at third QB and keep him there. Otherwise, it makes no sense at all.
     
  28. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    If he's going to do anything in the spread offense he needs to be active on game day so he would need to be our #2. This doesn't mean he's actually our second string QB. If Henne is hurt we can always go straight to our #3 or emergency QB. Only down side is if we go to our 3rd before the 4rth quarter then we can not go back to our 1st.
     
  29. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    This coaching staff has shown no interest in moving him to WR.
     
  30. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure people are thinking straight about Pat White, everyone is acting as though he was drafted to take over as our starting Qb in a couple of years...he wasn't. Henne is the guy this team wants to be the man starting, White was never drafted to start as our Qb.

    He's being developed at the Qb position so that we can use him in the Wildcat package that has more of a passing threat than when Ronnie is in the package. The Wildcat is/was successful, many teams around the league are using it, its not passing fad, its a legit package that works against good NFL defenses when done right with the right cast of players. We have had a lot of success using it so the front office targeted a player they felt could give it an extra dimension.

    Now we can argue if that was worth a 2nd round pick but I think people blasting the front office for drafting White as a starting Qb are people that need to get their facts straight, we never drafted White to be a starting Qb here, we drafted him to add something to our Wildcat package. It wasn't a roaring success in the first year but then again a lot of things went wrong on offense, Pennington went down, Ronnie went down so we'll have to see what another offseason will bring for the Henne/White duo.

    Personally I think theres a role for White on this team and he will have success somewhere so calling the pick a bust because he isn't going to be a starting Qb is bit ridiculous considering he was never drafted to be a starting Qb.
     
  31. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I am aware, but that doesn't mean it is not the best case scenario. Best case scenario for Patrick Turner is a #1 WR. Just because the coaching staff hasn't let him be the #4 WR on gamedays doesn't mean the best case scenario changes.
     
  32. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    He isnt tough...his body isnt an NFL'ers body....if he was a slot receiver and did what Welker does, he would get cleaned...he violently gets tackled alot..it looks scary to me when he does play.....kinda of like Drago versus Apollo...just scary to watch...
     
  33. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    That's not the same thing. Patrick Turner plays wide receiver. Pat White doesn't. Until he does then his ceiling is backup quarterback.
     
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  34. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I think people forget that the large majority of Pat White's passes at the college level were of the short variety. He threw an inordinate amount of bubble screens and dump off passes to the running backs. His accuracy with down the field throws has always been an issue. The design of the offense he was in was to get the ball into the playmakers hands quickly, and it was based around Pat's RUNNING ability. He showed absolutely nothing at the college level that would make anyone think he can be an NFL quarterback.

    Comparing him to Drew Brees because of size is laughable. Did you ever watch Drew Brees in college? Drew Brees is a legitimate passer. Unlike Pat White, Drew Brees can make multiple reads and decisions. He's got the smarts to play quarterback in the NFL. Pat White doesn't. Pat White is just another glorified running back that some fans think will change the way the position is played in the NFL.
     
  35. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    I think we need to be a little careful when we judge a kids physic that's coming out of college. I think we all can agree that a player like a Josh Cribs is large enough and has an "NFL'ers body". Lets first compare the size Difference now keeping in mind that Cribbs has had 5 years to develop.

    Josh Cribbs:

    • Height: 6'1"
    • Weight: 215

    Pat White:

    • Height: 6'0"
    • Weight: 190

    NOTE: Josh Cribbs is listed at both 6'0.5" and 6'1" on the same site "NFL.com".

    So Cribbs has 25 LBS on white. Big difference.

    Now lets compare the two the year they came out of college.

    Josh Cribbs:

    • Height: 6'1"
    • Weight: 195
    Pat White: (Obviously the same as above)

    • Height: 6'0"
    • Weight: 190 (Combine page has him at 197)
    If Cribbs can put on that much Muscle mass and remain effective whats to say White couldn't do it too?

    With all that said I'm still not a Pat white advocate. I didn't like the pick when it happened and I still don't like it now. This doesn't mean I can't root for the kid to be successful. I wish nothing more than for a) Him to prove me wrong or b) him to be traded.
     
  36. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Its not laughable if we follow the thread and understand the context in which it was first brought up. If done we will see that the issue with his lack of size was being used as a factor in why he couldn't be a good NFL QB. Drew being a) the same height and b) being a top tier QB was used to rebut the idea. That makes it a valid argument IMO.
     
  37. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    I cannot say for sure what our plans were for Pat White. I do believe that Penne going down altered them. White,'all of a sudden, was our back up, and had to absorb the entire playbook while getting ready if Henne got hurt. I would bet that this was not the plan. Ronnie's injury did not help as well.

    Tuna, Henning, and Sparano have over 100 years of coaching experience. I have to think they had something more in mind than 0-5, and 21 rushes for 81 yards. We shall see.

    I am glad we did not give up on Henne after 7-12 for 67 yards in mop up duty. White made more of an impact, in his first year, and I'm not ready to give up on him either.

    Say what you will about his size to be a productive Phins player. ZT is listening. LOL
     
  38. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    How many "little guys" have shocked the NFL? They all had HEART. I believe White has the same.
     
  39. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    I don't know the answer mainly because I don't know your definition of "little guys" :tongue2:

    If he can put on 10-20 pounds or so of muscle then, at least IMO he no longer is a "little guy".
     
  40. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Here's the thing with this comparison though. Josh Cribbs was a quarterback in college. He was moved to a position that allowed him to use his best attribute....his athleticism. They are indeed comparable players. However, the Dolphins coaches have done the team and Pat White an injustice by keeping him at the quarterback position. He does not have the skills to be a quarterback in the NFL. Neither did Cribbs. The best thing Miami can do is to make Pat White a receiver and develop him at that position. Use him as a special teams player and occasional gimmick play out of the wild cat while he develops as a receiver. That is the only way Pat White will ever make it in the NFL.

    It's not a valid argument, because Drew Brees is the exception to the rule of size mattering at the quarterback position. The reason Drew has been able to overcome his lack of size is his impressive passing ability. Pat White doesn't have that. A quarterback that cannot throw the ball is not a quarterback at the NFL level.
     

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