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This is way better than your usual arguments. Good job. Not being sarcastic. This is discussion we can have. Calling Tua a one read QB is not...

Exactly. Taking one play and saying see! Kurt says he is a one read QB! Or, even dumber, saying "see! he makes no post snap reads and throws to...

There are not. Post one. You guys keep taking things out of context, misquoting, or proving an utter lack of basic football knowledge. The whole...

:tongue2:

Tua's trainer is pretty transparent about what they work on. Last offseason it was gaining weight to protect from injury. He did so. I don't care...

It doesn't seem like you understand the argument, or you are making a straw man. The Dolphins could have signed them with the salary cap as is....

Yeah, Dan struggles with English. It's sad. Him suck at grammers. Oh, wait, this isn't Pofo... Never mind, I think we get along now.

Peyton Manning's first play off game was in 2000, his 3rd year. He put up a 62 passer rating in a loss. He returned the next year and improved to...

Yeah, I get what Finatik meant now. IMO Tua is going to get top 5 money, as he has played like a top 5 for the last 2 years, and is young. Front...

Who? Which "back up" got $8-10M where a "starter" was available for $16M to $20M?

I wonder if they are going to do something crazy like front loading Tua's extension with his guaranteed money coming in the form of a high new...

Yeah, teams have a budget with a cap, but can borrow against future cap with bonuses and have large portions of the contracts not guaranteed. It...

Even me, huh? Fun. While his release is quick, his superpower is getting the ball out quickly, accurately, on time, and deep. The late season...

I would be surprised if the Dolphins couldn't have signed either or both if they wanted. When they release the contracts see what their respective...

LOL. I am reminded why I stay away from certain threads to avoid terrible Tua analysis on this site. You have his strengths and weaknesses...

That wasn't what I understood your point to be. I would counter that Armstead's first two replacements did meet an average level of play, they...

Jackson is also 24 years old. I think people forget just how young he was.

So again, your missing the main point. Most of the top tackles missed time. 5 of the 10 that were paid higher then him started only one game more...

I think you are missing the point. Everyone knows he is going to miss time. If he wasn't, he'd cost more than $15M.

Disagree with both of you. The price is worth the play. Armstead averages 15m PER year, which is the 11th highest LT under contract, and he...

You are now on to straw man arguments. My disagreeing with your "analysis" on that play does not mean that I have said Tua is never wrong. Or,...

Your point is bad. The read is Claypool, you don't come off Claypool when the D is giving him. You want him to throw a 10 yard crosser to the...

This is absurd. The ball travels straight, and there wasn't room to have a pass get over the DL and down to be caught with a DB in perfect trail...

There are two DL stacked in front of him when Tua throws that out, he cannot just magic it through them for the low middle throw that you guys are...

One caveat is that Waddle or Hill instead of Wilson on that crosser and the DB is smoked, but that DB is also smoked quickly and doesn't get in...

Disagree, first he has to have a throwing lane. Second, the CB is trailing a crossing route with great technique and good position. A good throw...

He was in a good trail position and could have attacked the ball from inside to contest the catch.

Strongly disagree. Proper route has Claypool heading towards the sideline which would have been a few yards away after the catch. Safety has to go...

I don't think he had a throwing lane for Wilson. I don't think it's a pick with a proper route by Claypool, but I think the far better decision...

It's a pass that he has made over and over this year. Sometimes throws are just bad, but he did have a throwing shoulder injury going into last...

The number of the injuries that are non contact is concerning.

So, the answer to my question as to what a "one read QB" is to you, is a QB that makes no reads after the snap and locks into one receiver? If so,...

Yes, but I think the cause of his "panic" is knowing that he has to accelerate his clock on teams that get pressure because of his O line. He is...

It's been clear for a while that you and I aren't watching the same sport. What is a one read quarterback to you?

I think that is a by product of the OL situation, not Tua's ability. If Tua isn't perfect on his pre and right after snap reads and hits the first...

I am not sure if you meant to say this, but basically you seem to be fine with him injured on the side line just so long as he has great abs. His...

I can see that. I just don't care for those types of short term narratives being used to judge a season. For instance, if I knew the number of key...

11 wins and playoffs is a successful season vs my expectations before the start of the season. Post season, I expect a playoff win. I see it as...

And we would be wrong. The step is a principle guide line not a ultimate determining factor. the rule is: Any physical acts against a player who...

The call on Tua wasn't BS. They have **edit** 1 step and can still have contact. That doesn't mean they have 1 step to blast a forearm/elbow into...

Only if the analyzers are lazy. Comparing a QB's passer rating vs the average that the specific D gives up is more valuable than the rating for a...

He wasn't Tua level average though. Which is amazing that he has raised the level of expected QB play so far. It's been so long. I was established...

Disagree, about Waddle's speed, he is low 4.3 easy. Not speaking to his high school times. Also, that doesn't make the Tua's throw unimpressive....

For years Brees couldn't win playoff games in NO, Young couldn't win Championship games in SF, Manning playoff games in IN, Brady was a system QB...

Hunt is great. AJ and LE are finally working out. I don't think this is an accurate assessment any longer. We are looking a team with dynasty...

He hasn't sucked this year. He's been passable at all of the positions he's played, even when playing hurt. OL often take time to develop. It's a...

That game was winnable with slightly more focus for sure. Chubb takes 3 big steps before taking his helmet off and the Dolphins win. I think...

Comes down to OL heath IMO. Cannot have as many missing as there were at the end of the Titans game, only one easy game left. That said, win out,...

I disagree. The team should strive to be what the team has been at their best, and that's having fun. They can have fun and keep focus, they...

It is not a "one read" offense. That is wrong, it's just parroting nonsense that talking heads like Cowherd spew. If you've been saying that you...

It's more that he keeps posting nonsense and engaging in troll stlye arguing, and looking for a reason for that. The nonsense came first. I would...

Yeah. He has good mobility for rollouts and great for pocket movement, but he doesn't need to be trying to get down the field. I remember him...

Wow. Everything you said about Mahomes's strengths can be applied to Tua's. He still would be getting the ball out before the D could get there...

I think the issues of the Jets O impact the D. Lowest 3rd down conversion rate by far, lowest number of first downs per game, and so forth. That D...

Yeah, really shows just how good the D was. Just the one Adams play, and that white receiver turning into Gale Sayers's and Barry Sanders's love...

Devante Adams Donald Driver Greg Jennings Jordy Nelson **and yes, first ballot HoF**

So, who are these elite QBs putting up elite numbers with lesser weapons? I ask because I don't think they exist. And, if they don't exist, then...

I think Tua is elite. Just putting that out there. Having participated in the debate here in mains for years, the debate has been weirdly toxic....

I've only ever seen away games live. Dolphins have always had a decent contingent at those games and were noticeably louder than LA in LA. On TV,...

I think it's probably the national media "fraud" narrative that is the current flavor of the hour. Once they beat a team then it will be back to...

This is just getting weird. Yes, Tua threw a different route than Wilson ran. Yes, Mike said it was the wrong route that was run not thrown. And,...

That's why I wrote that he could have seen what Wilson saw and threw the go. Hill has stated on his podcast that when he gets specific looks he...

I am referring to 3rd down to Wilson at the end of the game, where Wilson ran a go as there was no safety and Tua missed him doing that and threw...

Tua missed WRs for TDs. He doesn't do that often. He hit Hill for a deep throw TD when Hill ran the wrong route a few weeks ago, so lets not...

Every team has at least 2 loses. Why doesn't losing to bad teams count more than losing to good ones? I just don't get it. This progression of...

We are discussing a trade for Chase Young. Not Myles Garret.

Miami is 4th in sacks. With our best pass rusher hurt for a good chunk of the season. What problems do you have with the pass rush, and whose spot...

It's not possible if you are wasting 3rds on 1/2 season rentals of players like Chase Young. Whose snaps does he take? How does using a third on a...

Yeah they need to focus on resigning and hitting on picks to keep the team. They should really be trying to keep this team. Not sending a 3rd for...

Offense and Defense face different directions. Remember which side of the room is on your right. Turn 180, and which side is to your right now?

Good Teams rarely lose. Out of 7 games KC has won 6 so far. I hope KC loses today and next week. Each week is a new opportunity and I don't...

After the bye there are 3 road vs 5 home games left. 3 TDs

Truth. And, what Flores ran the last year he was here was RPO heavy with no running game, or O linemen that fit the type of running game they ran....

The expectations and analysis of Tua are so weird and detached from any sort of perspective sometimes. I don't understand it.

Well argued. Good points.

Horrible take. Which QB makes no silly mistakes? Why do you think Tua makes more than other elite QBs? You are letting recency bias color your...

Far more players fail then become elite in the NFL. Negative analysis is right more often than not. Pluss, you can just hop on the train when it's...

Hills last year with Mahomes he averaged 9.3 targets a game. In Miami he averaged 10 per game last year, and just under that (9.8) this. Just in...

The fact that he has got you off of the QBs need to use their legs kick :cool2: says it all.

It's all of the detailed pocket stuff that Tua does. The precision and speed that he carry outs fakes, resets his feet, and is ready to throw...

I KNOW! IT WAS A TOTALLY RANDOM EXAMPLE AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH TUA. I don't know about FinD. Hopefully, eating good vegan food on his animal...

The threads with the most activity for the last few years in the mains are those about Tua. People care, and cared a lot. It seems like you are...

It's also a terrible analogy. This is football, not politics. Results are game scores and easily quantifiable stats, not how incredible complex...

You keep calling him ARRRCHANE

I mean this as respectfully as possible. Are you a pirate?

I cannot help but feel like Achane (no r) is being undervalued. 12.1 yards per carry on 38 carries for Achane vs 5.4 on 58 for Mostert, all behind...

Stats are results, quantifiable measurements of performance. I don't see the point of the debate. Team chemistry, and so forth, will change...

I saw Dolphins give a 6th and get a 7th and Claypool back. So, even less. Dude has the body and maybe Welker and the WR room that the Dolphins...

Sample size is too small to really say I think. From what I've seen, Gink doesn't set an edge as well, and isn't getting the same attention when...

X said the same thing after the game. So, we get some drama. Hopefully this doesn't matter once we get some of the CBs that are out back.

They didn't throw at him.

I'm at "bad games happen" for this one. Take the opportunity to learn and move forward, it will be a good test of the mantra about adversity that...

He walked off, but if it is going to cause him to miss any more time he should just shut it down and get the foot surgery that he has been putting...

Has he though? No 1st last year because of Ross, not him. Lots of young great to good players to pay in the next couple of years because of the...

And, for the Tua cannot play off schedule, doesn't read defenses post snap, picks his spot and throws it no matter what crowd. (absurd that this...

I blocked stale after debating him for a couple of posts. Clearly a troll, and not funny, so why bother? Sometimes you have to stop smelling the...

I have been slandered! I am not stale. I am the original. I have also been riding Tua's nuts for years here, and yes, it feels as good to be right...

I think Travis of the Tight Pants tweeted (Xed?) that he got to over 21 MPH on the 26 yard run. That acceleration is something special. Couple...

I think Peyton came out after week 1 or 2 and said he was wrong about Tua.

Do you have people on ignore? If so, you may only be seeing the reponses.

Liked the comparison to last year in this break down. One thing that none should deny is that Tua is working hard on improving every year. And, so...

What a great job by Hill not reacting with the ball in the air until the last moment so the DB had no chance to get his hands up.

Have you considered that the Dolphins want to pay Tua the lowest amount of money that they can? That doesn't concern you!?!?!

Built in injury protection for the team gaining the player.

But, F Grier, am I right?

Original had one of my favorite battle cries of all time "Go for the eyes boo, go for the eyes!" I loved the idea of an eye chomping attack hamster.

I remember loving that game, but can only now remember that I liked the midi music, and how stoked I was when I found a metal slime.

Madden 24 is going to be my first day one purchase in a long time. Wife got me a PS5 to replace the broken Xbox this summer, so no older versions....

I was worried about that too. Until, I heard the full secret (Hill was unaware) recording that his ex made later to further extort him. It was...

NFL contract lengths are pretend. He moved to a new position and killed it. He was well above average his first year as a center, in a scheme that...

He's heavier than Warrick Dunn was at the age he is now. Dunn is the back that he most looks like. It's uncanny when you compare their bodies and...

What is it that you think is going to hold Achane back? He has already put on almost 5 pounds of muscle from his combine weight as he isn't...

In a thread titled "is Tua the problem". After multiple pages debating whether Tua's Wunderlic indicated a problem. You have to see what that...

As I remember, that is a good summation of the main questions about Tua going into this season from this thread, and the results.

You have got to see you are cherry picking right? It would be like me taking Tua vs Herbert round 1 and saying, "see Tua had the better rookie...

Who here has the expertise to be able to constantly disagree with historical trends and be accurate all that often? If you think that you see...

I like seeing cbrad debate. He is all stats and math. This is what happened. This is how that compares to history. This is what tends to happen...

I put trolls on ignore. I have not ignored Hitman.

Never stated my opinion about a good timing offense, that is bordering on a straw man. What I said was that Hitman is inaccurate about Sherfields...

He is not accurate about what Sherfield said at all. https://www.buffalobills.com/video/trent-sherfield-signing-here-was-a-no-brainer He was...

Tua playing would have caused Allen not to throw those picks. Allen didn't throw any when playing against Tua in two games! Tua was issue all year...

I've seen similar results. The problem is that the people/families that consent to be studied usually have a reason to do so. I think it's going...

Wait... You are taking your medical information from sports reporters? There is no reason to debate someone so misinformed....

CTE and concussions are not the same thing. CTE is a danger for anyone playing football regardless of them ever suffering a concussion. That we...

What problems would those be? Memory issues are an indicator of a concussion, so it's reasonable to assume that he had those.

100%. There are some terrible takes on his skills, and what he did this year in this thread, but his health is undeniably a big issue for him. He...

Hope we don't see him playing again this season. He has proven what he can do healthy, now we need to see if he can get healthy.

And that's the clear and stark difference between the camps. Forget the logic and arguments. At the heart of the debate, one was saying he will...

I have the other one on ignore, so for a moment...

For some reason I've never really thought about how strong that makes that correlation.

Tua has the first and third best passer rating vs the Bills D this year. If you took the totality of his two games, he has a 111 rating. There are...

That is because every game is a big game, and the offense sucked the last two. Baltimore for example is as big as the Chargers game and bigger...

All 22 is out now so I thought I check out the first part of the game and test these suppositions. 1st series Ball at 25 max protect only 3...

The spots he is throwing aren't predetermined in the way you are implying. They are chosen by Tua based on his reads of what the D is doing, and...

That is terrible recognition of what happened. He had an unblocked DE because his OL and backs keystone copped it. The DE got a hand on his...

That was a deep out, which has been claimed that he cannot throw. He threw it after stepping through contact and avoiding a basically unblocked...

This is a throw that those questioning his arm strength will tell you he cannot make. [MEDIA]

I agree, and I think if Armstead wasn't out, it'd be even, or the Dolphins would be favored. The offensive teams that scare me vs the Dolphins are...

Miamidolphins618 found this tweet and posted it in the weekly club thread. [MEDIA] Have not checked the math, but Tua is proving to be more than...

I get it. You cannot debate the point, so you take one sentence out of context to debate a straw man. Done with you.

Yet, you are hyping one game as the determining factor, and debating secondary points, while ignoring the main one. Let me restate my point, if...

Maybe we have different definitions. Losing to a team you should handily beat because you overlooked them is a trap game. Not losing to a team...

If should doesn't matter, then what are we talking about? If the Dolphins some how lose the the Texans, or play poorly, and then beat the 49ers,...

Bills should have beaten the Jets. Eagles should have beaten the Commies. Ravens should have beaten the Gaints.

By that standard, who is elite this year? Everyone has lost to teams they should have beat.

I understand those feelings, but this is setting up as a classic trap game. 49ers next week, coming off of a bye and a holiday, crap team that is...

You missed the obvious, "Benched again. Cannot finish a game".

third consecutive with at least a 135!

No, he missed a COVID game, so did it in 16.

I disagree about Tua. Never seen a team try so hard to get rid of a top 5 pick that didn't play terribly. They lost a pick tampering with Tom...

This is not correct. Tua is throwing with anticipation and often before the WR makes their break. They aren’t just running 9 routes. He is...

That's the internet winner of the day for me. Congratulations!

He still does. He can be better. I want him to be his best. As OO614 pointed out, how exciting is that? Look how Tua has improved year to year,...

He is going to have to play amazing in Buffalo and New England to have a chance at MVP IMO.

Tua was an example in that post, not the point. PR's usefulness and use was the topic.

I think there is a disconnect here. Basically, if your eyes are telling you that Tua isn't playing great, but he is leading the league in PR,...

Poyer and who else between Baltimore and Miami? I see one starter back, but maybe I missed someone. Are you no longer saying he cannot be great?...

He's looked great against respectable defenses too. And, there have been "great" QBs with similar arm strength issues. His greatness will come, if...

On the arm strength question. How many underthrown balls are completed VS overthrown? If a WR has someone beat, they have a clear advantage on the...

Saw18 mph sustained wind with gusts up to 50. Still a weekish out, so hopefully it comes down.

Weather is not looking good for anyone passing next week.

Becuase they are looking like they were wrong on the internet. Imagine the horror.

Tebow was 8 and 6 as a starter. One game over .500. So, while technically a winning record, hardly doing nothing but winning.

This post makes it seem like you don't really understand how points are scored, or what QBs do. You are doubling down on the one good quarter...

The one good quarter is one of the more absurd things in this thread. So, a "good" quarter is 4 TD passes. Got it. Who else has even had a good...

The protocol doesn't have defined time periods. Just goals. It's up to the individual teams, doctors and players as far as timetables. Dolphins...

Same as any position. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and Skylar is already far ahead of most of those 6th, 7th, and undrafted QBs. How many of...

There is a game install every week. Knowing the playbook and practicing the plays installed that week for the specific D aren't the same. Also, he...

Cuchulainn found and posted this in the club. It really shows how throwing lefty just makes things look odd. [MEDIA]

Dolphins schedule is nice from now until the last few games. Going 3-1, beating Buffalo and Baltimore, to start was so very important. I want Tua...

Signed to the practice squad.

The 2nd hand report has been: The NFLPA cited several factors in terminating the unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant involved in Tua Tagovailoa’s...

I'm fine with taking the long approach with Tua. No way he should play against the Jets. Concessions don't require hospitalization if there are no...

Ignore works. I don't even know who you are responding too.

I hope he takes longer. Take no chances. I just cannot believe in Teddy, and doubt Skylar gets much of a chance.

That is silly. Tua has about 10 pounds on Brees and about 15 on White. Brees made quicker decisions and threw the ball away. That is what I want...

X was out.

Tua's injuries are a concern. Both the hit last night and his hip happened becuase he didn't get rid of the ball when outside the pocket with...

This is from before the season started. From before they stripped the 1st next year.

That was amazing. I've seen the reverse many times in that heat, but they made the offense take the the short stuff by constantly blitzing and...

Yep, plus he short hopped a 3 yard out for the go ahead score, and had multiple other ints dropped. He played hero ball though. Kept his team in...

The totality of their play. Good play helps to avoid bad conditions for throws. That is an incredibly important part of the job. Hit the open guy...

I like bridges.

Third or second party sellers usually roll the fees into the ticket price don't they? Didn’t check that app, but when I bought ticket master beat...

Yeah, not setting close, but great field view. Just haven't had to buy since the Dolphins didn't suck. So sticker shock. $300 (fees included) per,...

Ignore works guys. I promise. Debate those willing to debate, let the trolls troll talk amongst themselves. Seeing one-sided troll response posts...

Moss, Welker, Glenn, Gronk off the top of my head. Brady was considered a system QB that had a great coach and D before he got weapons.

I cannot off hand think of a Hall of Fame QB that didn't have great WRs. At least not since I've paid attention to the NFL, so since the 80s.

Your still making the same Straw Man. At this point you are either struggling with how logic works or trolling. Either way, on ignore now.

This is such a stupid straw man and a shift of not only goal posts but the line of scrimmage. People are saying he played elite when you and...

I do Game Pass. I'm on the west coast so for morning games I usually do other things until about 1:30pm. By then the full game with commercials...

I've seen it claimed a few times that a new Offense takes about 8 weeks into the season for a QB to really start to be automatic with the reads.

Anyone want to admit they were wrong in saying he cannot play elite? This doesn’t mean that he always will, or did before. But can we at least...

The 2 years is the point. He has done what you want him to do in those 2 years. So it's not impossible for him to do it. He needs to do it...

He has done all those things. It's doing it consistently that is the issue. This does not mean that there aren't throws that Herbert and Mahomes...

I agree with much of your take. It's football though, there will always be throws that a QB wants back. When/if Tua starts hitting the big throws...

Only one of the three names you listed was interviewed. Payton was a dirty crack pipe dream that the Saints wouldn't let go anyway. (still cost a...

There are 32 NFL HC jobs. There will always be candidates. McDaniel (no S, a little respect here please) is the only candidate they had that...

Do you really need a disclaimer to figure out if I am writing a fact or stating an opinion? If so, I recommend just skipping my posts.

Calendars are hard I guess?

Right. I am not saying it's what Ross wanted. It's what they (ownership) wound up having to do. They knew that Watson/Brady/Whomever was off the...

**edit** and I don't think I have to state it, but it's this thread, there are others reading. Daddy Mac built the O for Tua and around his skills.

McDaniel was brought in for Tua. Fiedler had a Super Bowl team. Top 5 D with the best RB, and ok receivers. Just calling Matt Hasslebeck back, or...

If you aren't in love with Herbert then that wasn't referring to you. Tua is way better than Fielder. Your memories are tainted if you think they...

For some, I think they want him to be Herbert, for obvious reasons, but he never will be. They cannot see/accept how he could develop into an...

This is fair. Tua has to show he is likely the future this year, or finding it should be the number 1 priority. Can keep Tua to compete with...

Dolphins drives with the score at the start of the drive followed by the result of the drive. Drives with a score, or the run out at the end of...

We have one game so far with the new O, his play in that game is what is being discussed, and those stats compare it to first games from other QBs...

That is still missing the point of loving the last drive. Being able to close a game like that is so important. And, while not perfect, Tua was a...

There is some simple stuff here. He should not have thrown the pass, and yes it was a bad pass. However, every QB worth anything that does throw...

DJ in the club found this: [MEDIA]

That clearly shows the safeties right there. You don't "riffle" that in there under the circumstances, you don't throw a pass that your WR is...

Watch it again. the receiver was bracketed by the safeties. Could he have caught it if it wasn't short? Sure, but then he has both safeties on...

The one that ended with Tua taking two knees to end the game. The one where Tua converted a 3rd and 9. You do understand that niether the game, or...

That last drive was the best and most hopeful thing I've seen in a while. 5 minutes left in the game, queue a 10 play 52 yard drive that ends in...

I thought Tua was off today, but not terrible. Just off. Hill is the truth though. Next two are Baltimore and Buffalo. Trial by fire for the new O.

That's just not true, Gaskin sucking at pass blocking.

When did Michel show power? It's been awhile. Gaskin is average at everything, which means he sucks at nothing. That's valuable.

The only loss that Tua played in that was out of reach in the 4th was the Titans game. No touchdown in the 4th that game. Not counting the first...

Yeah, and it turns out they are working on the desperation situations. 40 seconds to go 70 yards, and so forth. I don't think the national talking...

Pluss, game plans are nothing like real games.

I don't care what consenting adults consent to. Consent is such a clear line that I don't see how you can compare the two. I am not concerned...

If you ignore that these were all masseuses. That isn't how many girls he dated. That's not even the same conversation as this. He and the Texans...

That is so false it feels like gaslighting. You trying to break my mind?

Meh. I am also a Tua guy. If he plays as well as I think he is capable of this year -- I not sure I can contain the smugness. I'm going to be...

Alex13 in the club found this, remember people claiming Tua couldn't throw 50 yards, this is almost 65 in the air. [MEDIA]

Alex13 in club found a better angle. 60+ yards in the air. [MEDIA]

Finally get to start seeing how the offseason (both team chages, and his continued rehab/growth)is going impact Tua this year. Thread should get...

Just checking in on this thread since we had some videos of Tua actually throwing and saw your post. Why do you think the Dolphins run RPO the...

Conner's track bests. Not bad for 6'3" 230# https://www.tfrrs.org/athletes/6097685/Idaho_State/Tanner_Conner.html 55 6.47 55H 7.42 60...

You say don't use "Raw" numbers, then arbitrarily divide his TDs to get a "unimpressive" average per season of 29. And, since it seems that some...