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2008 Atlanta Braves Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by muscle979, Mar 23, 2008.

  1. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    I'm surprised they pulled it out so quickly. If we keep glavine I believe he will be ready by june or so? Hudson I think is out for the whole season. Don't quote me on that one though.
     
  2. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Hudson is likely to be back sometime in the second half.
     
  3. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  4. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Don't be surprised to see Andruw Jones sign with the Braves for a low price.
     
  5. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    what i was thinking but they said they weren't interested. But then again they said the same thing about lowe so who knows......
     
  6. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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  7. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    If you want to spend money on a bat, spend it on Manny.

    that said....

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090115&content_id=3745731&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

     
  8. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I would love to trade for Nady or Swisher...but I wouldn't give up Mike Gonzalez. No way in hell.
     
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  9. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Nady yes, Swisher no.

    Mike Gonzalez is going nowhere.
     
  10. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    why nady and not swisher?
     
  11. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Swisher has a very low ceiling. I think we saw his full potential in Oakland and dont think he's an upgrade over what we have now (Matt Diaz)

    Nady has proven he can hit for power and a nice average, with far fewer strikeouts.

    The only reason to sign Swisher would be that Nady is a Scott Boras client and his contract is up after next season while Swish's runs through 2011.
     
    unluckyluciano likes this.
  12. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Nick Swisher has always been one of the favorites of the statheads, who seem to only value walks. This is a guy who has hit above .250 one time in his entire career. Yeah, he typically posts a nice on base percentage for his average, but his power is maxed out in the 15-20 home run a season range. It's not bad, but it isn't great either. Swisher is also a defensive liability wherever you put him.

    Xavier Nady has more pop in his bat. The statheads favor Swisher over him because he walks more. Nady will hit .270-.290 with 25-30 home runs as an everyday player, and he isn't a defensive liability in the outfield.

    I've really never understood the infatuation the sabermetric guys have with Nick Swisher. Now, I can understand the infatuation with Adam Dunn a little bit, but even he is overrated by the sabermetric guys. They don't take into account the fact that this guy is a .230-.250 hitter that strikes out 200+ times a season. Add to that the fact that he is a designated hitter playing in the field defensively.

    I still feel like the Braves missed out on an opportunity when they backed out of the Jake Peavy trade talks. Jake Peavy is one of the few legitimate aces in baseball, and he's in his prime. His contract is also very manageable. I understand why they didn't want to give up Tommy Hanson, but I think they could have made this deal work without having to give him up. I don't know why they are hesitant to give up Gorkys Hernandez in a trade. He's a solid player, but he's not close to Jordan Schafer. I hope this isn't an instance where we missed out on getting an ace pitcher because we are overvaluing our prospects.

    With that said, there are two trades that the Braves are currently paying through the nose for because they made them. The first trade was when they dealt Adam Wainwright for a one year rental of JD Drew. Everyone and their mother knew that JD wasn't going to resign with Atlanta, but they did the deal anyway. They traded the only legitimate top of the rotation starter they had in the system at that time as well.

    The second trade was the Mark Teixiera trade. The Braves gave up entirely too much for him in that deal, knowing full well they weren't going to be able to keep him either. Matt Harrison has already established himself in the Texas Rangers rotation, and now they are moving Michael Young to third base to make room for Elvis Andrus. Jarrod Saltallamacchia hasn't played as expected, but I still believe this guy has a bat that will be a benefit in the line up and still believe that they should have moved him to first base or left field permanently. Neftali Feliz is another player they gave up in the deal, and he's considered to be one of the top 10 pitching prospects in baseball right now. We decimated our system with that trade.

    Adam Wainwright would be our #1 starter right now, and I'd feel much better about the future of this rotation if we were looking at Adam Wainwright, Matt Harrison, Jair Jurrjens, and Tommy Hanson as key components in the rotation rather than looking at two mid 30s pitchers to stabilize the rotation on the short term while we see if Cole Rohrbough and Jeff Locke will develop enough to be considered key cogs in the roation along with Jurrjens and Hanson. Oh, I'm clearly not a JoJo Reyes fan. He doesn't have the control to be a major league starter.

    I'm finished venting for the time being.
     
  13. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Oh, wait. I'm not finished venting after all. I still have a couple of issues that burn my rear end up with the Braves.

    First, I can't for the life of me figure out why they gave up on Kyle Davies and Macay McBride so quickly, yet they have continued to stick with JoJo Reyes who isn't half as good as either of the two mentioned above. Kyle Davies is going to figure it out now that he's out from under Roger McDowell, who is a guy I don't believe could coach his way out of a wet paper sack. Macay McBride was basically given away in a deal that brought the Braves Will Ledezma, who did jack squat. The Braves then sent him to to San Diego for Royce Ring, but they couldn't just deal Ledezma alone for him. They had to give up Will Startup as well. Ring did OK, but the Braves didn't seem to like him that much either. I thought he had potential as a LOOGY, and he had a very good curve ball. However, the Braves gave up McBride and Startup and got squat for them.

    Second, I can't figure out why they were so hesitant to do a deal for Jake Peavy, yet in the same year they give up Tyler Flowers and Brent Lillibridge in a deal to get Javier Vasquez. I like Vasquez, but he's a #3 starter in a good rotation at best. His strength is his durability and the fact that he is a guaranteed 200 innings guy. That's great for a #3 guy. The Braves just gave up one of their best power hitting prospects in the minors and a good short stop prospect in that deal.
     
  14. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm kind of depressed now.
     
  15. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    I never liked McBride, he's garbage as far as Im concerned. Matt Harrison looks like the real deal and a rotation with he and Tommy Hanson would have been sweet.

    JoJo put up great numbers in the minors IINM which is why the Braves have held onto him for so long. If he could ever be more consistent with his control, his stuff is good enough to win 15+ games a season.
     
  16. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Really good article on Jeff Francoeur's off-season and how hard he's worked to put last season behind him. Changing his stance and changing his attitude. I think he will have a nice rebound year in '09.

    http://www.ajc.com/services/content/sports/braves/stories/2009/01/20/braves_francoeur.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=21

     
  17. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Keith Law of ESPN rates Braves OF Jason Heyward the 3rd best Prospect in baseball.

    [​IMG]

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=3840355


    This kid is only 19 years and plays, you guessed it, RF. I think Francouer is gone when this kid is ready to make the jump. He has a smooth swing from the left side and should be a good one for a long time.
     
  18. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I think Heyward will eventually be moved to first base.

    Looking at this list makes me regret the Mark Teixiera trade even more. Neftali Feliz is considered, by Keith Law, the top right handed pitching prospect in the minors. Tommy Hanson is second. Now, I think a strong argument can be made for Tommy Hanson to be the top guy, but the Braves could have had two of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball had they not made that deal. Never trade long term for short term, IMO.

    Tyler Flowers is listed as the 4th best catching prospect. Sure, he's blocked by Brian McCann in Atlanta. I think the Braves could have held on to him though. Max Ramirez is also rated highly, and he was sent to Cleveland in another long term for short term deal. John Shurelholz did a lot to build this team in the early '90s, but his late trades in attempt to keep the run alive is probably what caused the run to end in the long run.
     
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  19. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    Ah, the old "blame the statheads" argument. Many of the people who think the statheads are clueless fail to actually check the stats themselves. Like this dandy for instance:

    Swisher has 20+ home runs each of the last four years, and hit 35 in 2006.

    Nady's career slugging percentage is a whopping 7 points higher (.458 to .451). In fact, if you account for park factors, their career slugging percentages are an identical .457. So, with power equal, why WOULDN'T you look to on base percentage to find the better hitter? And indeed, Nady's career OBP is .335, while Swisher's is .354.

    Defensively, they're basically equal, as their numbers show. Their range factors are nearly identical. Both guys can play all three OF positions tolerably well. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Well, Dunn is a liability in the field, there's no denying that. Of course, he's an outfielder, so you can live with a poor glove in left field a lot more easily than you can at shortstop or catcher. But he's never struck out 200 times. And he's been pretty healthy throughout his career, so it's not like a hamstring pull saved him from that ignominious feat. And even if he had, it's been proven that strikeouts are not appreciably more harmful than a common groundout or flyout. The "productive out", beloved by...oh hell, let's just call them what they are... crotchety old farts is a myth.

    Statheads do account for Dunn's career .247 batting average. It's just that batting average is not an exceptionally meaningful statistic. OBP tells us much more about a player, and Dunn is excellent at getting on base. Most of the time, a walk is just as good as a single.
     
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  20. charlestonphan

    charlestonphan Junior Member

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    looks like Abreu is heading to Anaheim, or whatever they are calling themselves these days. which is just fine with me.

    the Braves web page has an article on the pros and cons of trading for Nady or Swisher.

    http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/...t_id=3815138&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

    Nady is better for pure average, Swisher has hit 20 more taters over the last 3 season in 57 more games. Nady is only signed thru the end of this season, Swisher is signed for the next three season, has a higher OBP, and can play all three outfield positions, and play them well, aas well as play first base. oh, and he is a switch hitter too.

    i think i have also heard that he will come cheaper from the Yankees as well, as they prefer to keep Nady, even on the short term.

    i am tired of rent-a-players, if the FO is set on going the trade route, i think Swisher is the better option for now.

    heck, they can make a run at Nady next offseason, whether Swisher works out or not, and not have to trade anything for him then.
     
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  21. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Agreed. I prefer Swisher over Nady for the reasons you've mentioned. He is a better fielder then people give him credit for and he is versatile on defense. Also, as previously mentioned, he doesn't have a high BA but he gets on base other ways.
     
  22. charlestonphan

    charlestonphan Junior Member

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    Braves are now pursuing Ken Griffey Jr.

    http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/...t_id=3828904&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

    my guess is Griffey ends up back in Seattle, where he can DH, but the article does go on to state he would be fine with splitting time with Matt Diaz, and has a good repoire with Bobby Cox.
     
  23. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I would like to see the Braves sign Ken Griffey Jr. The report I read in the AJC this AM stated that he prefers to sign with the Braves. He's 39 years old, but he did hit .272 with 14 home runs against right handed pitching in 2008. In a platoon situation, he would match up well with Matt Diaz, who has hit .328 with 18 home runs in 478 at bats. Plus, I think Ken Griffey Jr. will be a great influence on the young outfielders that will be in camp, including Jordan Schafer, Brandon Jones, and Jason Heyward.
     
  24. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    DevilFin13 likes this.
  25. charlestonphan

    charlestonphan Junior Member

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    yeah, i read the same thing this morning, and also i didn't consider that Griffey's offseason home is in the Orlando area, which is a heck of a lot closer to Atlanta than Seattle.

    he would be a tremendous guy for the locker room, and probably put some butts in the stands as well.

    i am hoping this works out, because i am going to see the Braves at Disney next month, and can always squeeze in a road trip to Atlanta for a game or two, and would love to see him play live some time.
     
  26. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Griffey is my favorite ball player. It would be great to see him in a Braves uniform playing alongside Chipper.
     

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