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2009/2010 Mets. The Jerry is gone version!

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Boik14, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    Amen my Brother!:up:
     
  2. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Some good news on the Santana surgery from Will Carroll of Baseball America..it looks like any further disasters on Santana's elbow will be averted:

    Dr. David Altchek got a workout, doing procedures on two different Mets pitchers the other day. Both were successful, but both surgeries tell us a bit more about how the Mets managed these injuries. Santana had four small chips removed from his pitching elbow, but the key here is that one of them had become lodged in the joint, making it impossible for him to have full range of motion and causing issues beyond the simple pain. Once it had moved to that area, Santana was shut down quickly. When floating free, bone chips can be asymptomatic, which appears to have been the case during Santana's 2008 and 2009 seasons, at least intermittently. Now that they're out, Santana is as good as he was in 2004, at least physically. As a bonus, Altchek was able to visualize Santana's UCL, which was fine. The story on Perez is similar: Altchek scraped away a significant portion of scar tissue that was causing the friction and "crunching" in Perez's knee. Scar tissue is the result of previous tears, something Perez hadn't reported before, and wasn't an issue when he signed his three-year deal. In other words, Perez's injury was new and may just explain at least some of why his season was such a failure. Both should recover fully and be ready for spring training.
     
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  3. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I've changed tunes, I thought Manuel should come back, but now I think we need to clean house.

    Why?

    1: He has no idea how to use a bullpen, he rides guys way to much and than they start to explode.

    2: Razor Shines has no right to coaching any bases on a major league team.

    3: I think the Mets need a coach that will push buttons, find ways to get the most out of players (Valentine, LaRussa)

    Its late, I have a few other reasons, but the way he used the bullpen this year just kills me. I know we have tons of injuries, but not in the bullpen.
     
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  4. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    This Thole kid can hit!

    And he does the forgotten art! He chokes up.
     
  5. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    320+ in the minors with an OBP near 380. Not going to hit for a ton of power, probably none immediately but hes going to hit a ton of doubles.

    Kid even stole a base in his debut, not something he does a lot of but heck get em while the getting is good. :up:
     
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  6. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thole with another 2-5 today. I know its different doing it in september when the games dont matter and youre 15 games back or whatever but I still hope this kid can impress the regime enough for them not consider doing something dumb like resigning Schneider.

    The Wagner deal was completed today; we acquired 20 year old 1B eddie lora who hit 222 in the gulf coast league. Not lovin it but the kids still young, maybe we get lucky.

    Beltran may be back as soon as Tuesday. I'm going to guess here but if the Mets are looking to trim payroll this offseason getting him back in and showcasing him could be one of the best moves theyve made. He could net this team at least 2 elite prospects.
     
  7. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Beltran is officially back today.

    Tobi Stoner called up from AAA, fringe prospect who has to be added to the 40 man to be protected this offseason from the Rule 5 draft. I think we're going to use him occasionally as a reliever. He uses mostly off-speed stuff even though his fastball touches the low 90's. He was adequate in AAA (3.96era) but improved once he started using his change and slider more frequently. On a side note his jersey should sell well if hes able to stick around cause anything that says "stoner" is usually popular with college kids :lol:
     
  8. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    Hey Mets....don't let those Marlins beat you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Go Mets Go!!! I feel so dirty saying that. :shifty:
     
  9. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    I am trying hard to find silver linings to the season at this point. Ugh. I guess Francoeur hitting like he might actually merit a major league job is good, though I remain plenty skeptical. There's also the fact that the Mets can't possibly have as many injuries in 2010, and the fact that they'll have money to spend. But good God, this has been a lousy season.
     
  10. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Frenchy's hovering around 300 with a 330+ OBP. Not bad, lets hope this keeps up.

    I think a few things have been confirmed this year:
    Bobby Parnell is not a starter. He was moved back to the pen with a 7.93 era in 8 starts.
    Daniel Murphy is below average defensively and not enough offense at 1B. His future is at DH or 3rd which means he may get traded sooner then later. His near 40 doubles are respectable but hes had a down year overall. If he could play 2B they would be slightly more tolerable.
    Josh Thole can hit. His power will come later on.
    Pedro Feliciano deserves the new contract he wants. Workhorse who owns Utley and Howard is a necessity.

    The Mets plan to cut 35-40 mil from their payroll is going to be tough to pass off on the fans in the second year at citi.

    Lastly, if the season ended now we're picking 6th which is ok since it would mean its type A free agent protected. Holliday or Lackey imo will be a met, hopefully Lackey.
     
  11. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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  12. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    FA time!!!!

    Hello Mr Bay & Mr Lackey

    Or I hope that's what they do!
     
  13. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    We'll give you Pedro for Wright. :tongue2:
     
  14. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Throw in Utley and Hamels :)
     
  15. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Mets Notes: Holliday, Barajas, Pineiro
    By Mark Polishuk [November 10 at 7:34pm CST]

    Lots of newsbits swirling about the Big Apple's non-World Series winners...

    * Joel Sherman of the New York Post tweets that the Mets will meet with Scott Boras tonight to at least get an idea of what it will take to sign Matt Holliday.
    * As reported earlier today, the Mets weren't interested in Jason Varitek but were considering Bengie Molina at catcher. Sherman (also via Twitter) added Rod Barajas and Chris Snyder to the New York catching "wish list."
    * SI's Jon Heyman (via Twitter) reports the Mets are interested in Joel Pineiro, but not at his reported demand of a three-year/$30MM contract.
    * MLB.com's Barry Bloom figures that Gary Sheffield and Carlos Delgado are both done in New York after Mets GM Omar Minaya was very non-committal about the possibility of re-signing either of the two veteran sluggers.
    * The Toronto Sun's Bob Elliott, however, thinks the Mets will at least "keep an eye" on Delgado's progress in winter ball (via Twitter).

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
     
  16. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Unless the Castillo for Overbay rumors are true I would look heavily in to resigning Delgado on a 1 year deal. maybe catch lightning in a bottle and he gets 30/100 again cause no park really holds his bombs anyway. Getting rid of Castillo is the only thing that trumps the risk/reward with Delgado.

    Heard rumors we were looking at Figgins for the Util player role (backup Inf/and OF who gets 500 AB's anyway).

    Dont want Pineiro unless Duncan comes with him.
    Lackey should be target #1 not Halladay. Hang on to the prospects, the stats dont deviate all that much for the past few years. Lackey fits what we need for innings eating #2 guy. Hes also a proven big game pitcher who really doesnt carry the injury risk Halladay does.

    If we're going to trade prospects, it best be for Adrian Gonzalez.

    I think I would rather have a stopgap LF option like Mike Cameron or Marlyn Byrd over Holliday. I really dont want him in Taxpayer Field. Especially at the Teixeira type dollars Boras is looking to get him.

    Do go get Orlando Hudson. Not later...do it now. Like yesterday.
     
  17. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Lackey has been the more injury prone pitcher the past few years. None of Halladay's injuries have ever been because of his arm/shoulder/elbow. Fluke things like a broken leg or groin pull. I do understand your point though about signing Lackey instead of trading for 1 year of Halladay. Personally I'd rather have Halladay because I don't think it's close who's the better pitcher but Halladay could bolt at the end of the year on you.
     
  18. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Halladays risk is twofold..hes 32 and throughout his career hes been the more injured pitcher. Plus he'd cost prospects that the Mets actually need. Granted they would recoup some of those prospects in a year if they let Halladay walk as a type A but then whats the point? I realized my thinking was a bit further off on the two then I thought but Lackey had that one great year and has shown signs he can duplicate it. In citifield he just might. Just sign Lackey instead of complicating things and hang on to the prospects.

    One thing about Lackey that I know all the sabermetric people love is his adjust era + is pretty damn good. 1st in the league in 2007.
     
  19. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    The only reason Omar Minaya is all over Figgin's jock is because he doesn't want Figgins going to the Phillies. :yes:

    You Mets already have David Wright at 3rd, so Figgins is a better fit for the Phillies....we need a leadoff man so we can drop Rollins to 6th in the lineup. DeRosa and possibly Garrett Atkins are the other alternatives. I hear the Mets may be after Lackey....that's going to cost you a lot of dough. I can't see the Mets coming up with $100 million....look for Lackey to head to the Yankees.
     
  20. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Can you say goodbye? This team was the only team that wanted him, way to ruin your MLB career!


    New Met already burning bridges

    Chris Coste is burning bridges with Mets fans before he even crossed them. The ex-Phillies catcher/first baseman signed with the Mets today, just three days after belittling his new team in an interview with a Philadelphia sports Web site. After telling CSNPhilly.com that he "will always be a Phillie," Coste said he had been hesitant to sign with Philadelphia's arch-rival. "It was the Mets," Coste said, according to the site. "It's the last team I ever saw myself playing for. I knew I was going to accept [the contract], but had to think about it for a few days." (New York Post) Comment

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/morning-jolt/12/04/1204/index.html#ixzz0YjzCKHO3
    Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription
     
  21. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I actually didn't mind the Coste signing or his comments. He's loyal to a franchise that gave him a chance to achieve his dream after years of persevering in the minors. Now he will essentially be a player/coach for Josh Thole. As long as he is committed to doing that then I will respect him.
     
  22. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    According to the Bergen Record, Bay passed his physical today.

    He will be at citi field tomorrow to be announced and welcomed as a Met.
     
  23. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    The Mets and right-hander John Maine avoided arbitration by agreeing to a one-year, $3.3 million contract on Friday.

    Maine, who turns 29 in May, could earn an additional $225,000 in performance bonuses based on number of starts. Limited to just 15 starts last season due to shoulder problems, Maine was 7-6 with a 4.43 ERA with a 1.29 WHIP in 81 1/3 innings. His second straight season hampered by shoulder issues, the numbers tell the tale of his decline:
    2007: 8.48 K/9, 3.53 BB/9
    2008: 7.84 K/9, 4.31 BB/9
    2009: 6.09 K/9, 4.20 BB/9

    As of now, the Mets rotation consists of Johan Santana, Mike Pelfrey, Oliver Perez, Jon Niese (if healthy) and Maine. Of course, they won't begin the season that way, as the team has been connected to Joel Pineiro, Jon Garland and Doug Davis in free agency and Bronson Arroyo among potential trade targets.
     
  24. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No pineiro please. Not unless Duncan comes with him.
     
  25. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It's a sad state when we have to get excited that Mike Jacobs is back.
     
  26. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Eh im happy Jacobs is back. Power bat off the bench who cant hit lefties but if Murphy cant cut the mustard at 1B at least he will give us time til Ike Davis is ready or we can do a deal for A Gone. :up:
     
  27. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    I can't get upset about signing anyone to a minor league deal, and Jacobs does have some power against RHP. But Murphy/Tatis pretty much has to be the first base platoon.

    Also, more to the point, this continues the delightful trend of trying to plug holes with guys who couldn't get on base if their life depended on it. The Matthews Jr. pickup was an absolutely horrible move on several levels. They dodged a bullet last year when Frenchy (yes, I'm shelving the Out Machine tag for the moment) was useful after coming over from Atlanta, but I'm betting that was more a blip on the radar than a career turnaround. They're going to trot out some combo of Omir Santos and Chris Coste behind the plate, who will combine to give them absolutely no offense to speak of. They signed Jacobs despite the fact that there are always a surplus of cheap first basemen who can actually get on base and hit.

    Does Omar Minaya understand that putting men on base actually scores runs? I'm not at all convinced of that.
     
  28. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I don't think Omar has a clue really on how to put together a baseball team nor does he realize the whole not making outs is the most important thing a hitter can do. Just think his 2nd best deal of the offseason was having Molina resign with the Giants. Once you pass the 5th hitter in the Mets line up (assuming a healthy line up is some form of Reyes, Castillo, Beltran, Wright and Bay) the rest of it is filled with automatic outs with nearly zero pop. I think right now the Mets are a 4th place team that's closer to 5th place than they are 3rd.

    Part of me thinks that Omar is just that clueless and the other part of me thinks that ownership is setting him up to be the fall guy. Realistically it's probably a mix of both.

    P.S. Welcome back Phunwin, good to see you back here posting!
     
  29. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    Thanks!

    Well, I don't think they're a 4th place team. The over-under on wins, somewhat surprisingly, was 89.5. As much as I'm not optimistic about the team, it's easy to forget that EVERYTHING went wrong in 2009.

    If Francoeur really just needed a trade to spark his numbers, and if he's really the player we saw after he went to the Mets, and if Ollie Perez returns to his 2007-8 form, they can absolutely win the East. I'm not betting on either of those things happening, mind you.
     
  30. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    When on earth did this happen?? I saw nothing about it.
     
  31. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    How in the world is their over/under 89.5? I realize things were almost comical last year with all of the injuries and a big down year from their only healthy superstar but that number just shocks me. We're questioning the offense but the pitching is just as bad after Santana (who's coming off of surgery). Who else do they have that anyone can feel confident in? Perez and Maine are all or none guys, mostly none, with injury concerns as well and Pelfrey is most likely somewhere in the middle of his '08 and '09 stats, which isn't horrible but the FO is looking for him to be a legit #2. I'm sorry but the 89.5 is just crazy to me, I'd think a more realistic number would be maybe 82 wins or so.

    As far as a 4th place team, I think clearly the Phillies are the favorites and should be as they're the best team top to bottom. I also am pretty high on the Braves this year and they probably would have been my pick as the WC champs if they didn't trade Javy Vazquez (of course a lot can change if Jurrjens is hurt now). I also think Florida is going to be good this year as well, although I'm not in love with their rotation after Johnson and Nolasco.

    For the Mets to win the East I think they need bounce back from Perez, Maine and Pelfrey and they need both Murphy and Francoeur to play out of their minds. I just think it's too much to ask for really, just too many 'if's. But hey that's why they play the game on the field, right?
     
  32. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    I do not know what to make of Maine. He's just 28 (29 in May), yet has the profile of a guy 5 or 6 years older. That declining K rate is as disconcerting as it is baffling. It's not like he's been overworked or anything, but there's a definite decline that we absolutely should not see at this point in his career. I don't get it.

    Pelfrey will be much better. His hits/9 IP went way up last year, as did his home run totals. I am far more inclined to write those off as flukes than to believe they're indicative of his true performance.

    I'm also not going to lose much sleep over Jon Niese in the 5th starter's role. He's got a good future and has been successful at every level of his development with good peripherals. He'll be fine.

    It's Ollie Perez who worries me the most. I mean, I know the guy is inconsistent, but where on earth did that 2009 come from? No idea whatsoever.
     
  33. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Re: Pelfrey and Maine
    Maines declining k rate imo has more to do with 2 things above everything. One is his lack of a third pitch that he throws consistently for strikes. The other thing is the last two years hes been saddled with injuries and I am not sure he was ever healthy. He admitted to pitching hurt in 07 and I would bet he tried to do it again last year. IMO if he can stay healthy and decides to throw his curveball again he will win 15 with a sub 4 era.

    Pelfrey is a little simpler imo...last year it was the verlander effect plain and simple. Too big an increase in innings and his arm didnt adjust right away. Hopefully it does this year.

    By the way Ray, you wanted to know how the Mets over/under was at 89.5? because last year they were 9 up on philly before the injury bug killed their season. Everyone forgets that. Not saying they would have maintained it with that staff and lineup but they very easily could have been in the mix. This offseason Atlanta got worse when they dealt Vazquez. Florida stayed about the same, Philly stayed about the same and the Nats got a bit better. It depends what happens with injuries and trades but as it stands now The Mets and Marlins battle for 2nd.
     
  34. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I might have been a little harsh about the Mets because I just remember how bad they were last year (even taking in account for the injuries) so I will admit that but I still think the Mets right now are a 4th place team. I still think 89 wins is too high of a number and if I were a betting man, I'd definitely take the under. I just don't think the Mets have enough pitching to match up with the Phillies or Braves, of course that's because I'm not a fan of anyone in the Mets rotation not named Santana and I think Pelfrey is just ok more of a 3/4 type pitcher mainly because of his low K rate and lack of a swing and miss pitch. Don't forget that when you say Phillies are about the same and the Braves got worse, you're not taking into account that the Phillies have a full year of Halladay (when they only had a half year of Lee) and the Braves although they lost Javy have a full year of both Hanson and Hudson. I think you're really underselling the Braves who might have made the playoffs last year if they didn't hold Hanson back in the minors for so long or if the season was just a few weeks longer. We'll see though, should be interesting at least.
     
  35. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The over/under on a team like the Mets is always tough. Theyre in a unique position of being a very talented albeit, top heavy team coming off injuries and down years to some of their big players many of whom are still under 30. They could just as easily boom as bust.

    I agree Pelfrey is probably more of a 3/4 until he throws a 3rd pitch with confidence. But his two pitches are good enough to get by with. The other part of it with him is the team defense behind him specifically at 2B. Now far be it for me to cite saber metrics knowing full well I cant stand them but look up the best two months of Pelfreys young career and you will find it was june and july of the 2008 season. Well guess which months Luis Castillo was hurt. Since I dont want to make it seem like poor ol slappy is the whipping boy for everything without proof Ive decided to bust out his defensive ratings for last year where I discovered he has less range then anyone else as I suspected and he cost the team more runs then any other 2B in the league (28). And guess who the victim was. Yep you guessed it, the ground ball guy, Mike Pelfrey. Part of it falls on the Mets imo as I believe but cant yet substantiate that he fell victim to the Verducci effect where he simply jumped too many innings in one year leading to a dead arm the next but my instincts tell me that will be substantiated sooner then later. The K rate and swing and miss stuff is overrated if you have a good defense behind you, which on the right side clearly they do not as long as slappy is the 2B. Felipe Lopez should be on speed dial.

    RE Phillies: Im not sure how much better then Lee's sub 2 NL era Halladay can pitch. If he does it over a full year its gonna be some Bob Gibson/greg Maddux stuff. Lee imo might be as good a pitcher.

    RE braves: Theyre on their way back for sure. But Vazzy was tremendous for them last year at 2.87/1.03 and Im thinking that he might have actually been getting better. They should have let Hudson walk and kept him. Hanson is an animal, I agree.
     
  36. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    What's funny is is that most Met fans (in general) wanted Orlando Hudson the past few years and he is almost as bad range wise as Castillo but no one knows it without checking out the defensive stats because he looks good in a baseball uniform and on the field.

    I don't think K rates are overrated. I don't like having pitchers (especially in the AL, you can get away with it more in the NL) that don't have a good out pitch. Like you said the pitcher is only going to be as good as he defense. However a pitcher that is hittable vs. strike out pitchers run into issues where there's a running on 3rd for example with less than 2 outs and instead of getting that big K in the situation he gives up a ground ball or fly ball out and the run scores. It's the little things like that and not being able to bear down that really hurts. The problem with Pelfrey isn't just his K rate but he gives up 10 hits per 9 innings pitched, and that's not very good at all.

    About the Phillies, even if Halladay doesn't pitch as well as Cliff Lee did, a full year of Halladay is more valuble than a half year of Cliff Lee. Halladay doesn't have to match what Lee did, all Halladay has to do is pitch in line with his career and the Phillies are going to be a much better team.

    About the Braves, I agree if it was a money issue (which it probably was) I would have let Hudson walk and kept Vazquez for this year. I'm sure the Braves' thinking was that Vazquez was probably going to walk after this year so if they can get a good package for him they should do it. Of course if the Braves didn't sign Lowe or Kawakami to those contracts they could have afforded to sign both Hudson and Javy longer term.
     
  37. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports that the Mets have signed catcher Rod Barajas to a one-year, $1 million contract.

    He can make another $1 million in "easily-attainable" incentives, according to Rosenthal. The 34-year-old Barajas immediately becomes the favorite to start behind the plate in Queens. He batted just .226/.258/.403 last season, but smacked 19 homers and racked up 71 RBI. Hey, at least it's not Omir Santos.
     
  38. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    Oh good, another catcher who can't hit. Henry Blanco, Rod Barajas, Omir Santos, Chris Coste...God, if our catchers combine for a .700 OPS I'll be doing backflips.

    Josh Thole, you can't get here soon enough.
     
  39. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Any Met fans see pictures of David Wright this year? The guy looks pretty jacked. Wright was clearly putting in some time this off season.
     
  40. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    He definitely wants to improve on his power numbers.
     

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