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2012 Draft Do-Over

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by UCF FINatic, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    The thread title should make this pretty self-explanatory. Basically, you pick whoever you think the Dolphins should have taken at each pick, you can pick anyone selected after that pick. While this is super-early to do, I think it will be fun to look back on it after the season to see who would have upgraded the Dolphins the most. If anything, this could just be another way to pass the long offseason.

    8.) QB Ryan Tannehill - I think this was the right pick for the future of our franchise. He has all the tools to be a franchise QB, but it may take him a year or two to develop. I feel this was the correct pick though.
    42.) WR Rueben Randle - I was a big fan of Randle and I think this would have been a great pick. I still think we should have addressed our biggest need earlier on in the draft.
    72.) LB Sean Spence - I had the toughest time with this pick, but I feel Spence could potentially start for us in either of our 3-4 or 4-3 sets.
    78.) HB Lamar Miller - This is actually before the Dolphins picked Miller, but I would have picked him here to get Boykin later.
    97.) CB Brandon Boykin - It was obvious his injury cost his a lot of money. I still think he was one of the biggest steals in the draft.
    155.) WR Marvin Jones - Very productive player at Cal. I think he could have upgraded our WR core really well.
    183.) G Brandon Washington - Yes, I still drafted two Canes. I think Washington was good value so late in the draft.
    215.) OT Nate Potter - I really liked Potter coming out. He seemed like a typical Packers lineman. Someone the is very good all around, but not spectacular at any one thing. He could take sometime in the NFL before seeing the field as he needs to add more strength and mass, but he is a player that I think is still playing in the NFL 5 years from now.
    227.) OT Andrew Datko - Shoulder issues really effected his stock. If he was completely healthy I think he would have been drafted in the top half of the draft.
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Well it's interesting. The one thing I don't like about these is the hindsight issue.

    To me...it's hard to reconcile the whole Weeden versus Tannehill deal. Would I take Weeden at #8? Not knowing he was going to fall to #22. But Jeff Ireland said straight up that he had an opportunity to trade down and I think it was implied to be into the mid-teens, but he had intel that Ryan Tannehill would have been taken, so he didn't. If it were me, I would have taken that trade, picking up an extra 2nd round pick in the process most likely.

    But, so be it...we've got hindsight working in our favor.

    R1 - QB Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State
    R2a - WR Stephen Hill, Georgia Tech
    R2b - OT Kelechi Osemele, Iowa State
    R3a - TE Michael Egnew, Missouri
    R3b - WR Devon Wylie, Fresno State
    R4 - DE Malik Jackson, Tennessee
    R5 - LB Tank Carder, TCU
    R6a - SS Winston Guy, Kentucky
    R6b - OT Tom Compton, South Dakota
    R7 - TE Chase Ford, Miami (FL)
    UDFA - OT Jeff Adams, Columbia
    UDFA - RB Jonas Gray, Notre Dame
    UDFA - OG Josh Samuda, Massachusetts
    UDFA - WR Jeff Fuller, Texas A&M
    UDFA - CB Larry Parker, San Diego State
     
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  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Here's my thinking on the above re-Draft.

    1. Quarterback. Brandon Weeden was my guy. No secrets there. I actually think he would have fit this offense like a glove, and it's no coincidence he's off to Cleveland where they run a similar west coast offense. I think he's one of the two most pro ready QBs in the Draft and he will be successful right away. What will particularly suit him is the variability in this offense. At Oklahoma State he was used to being able to change any route and just about any aspect of the play at the line, and he often did it without verbal communication, sometimes even without hand signals. Just a simple nod and his wide receiver knew exactly what he was thinking based on things they'd already discussed on the sidelines. The ability to change anything at any time at the line is key in Miami's current offense. Weeden would have been excellent at it, and he would have started as a rookie.

    2. Trades. In executing the trade down that Jeff Ireland referred to, I am assuming that I pick up an extra late 2nd rounder for my trouble. That would be the appropriate chart value. I like the trade Ireland executed in the 3rd round to trade down and pick up an extra 6th rounder. I'd keep that trade. I would have foregone the trade up for Lamar Miller, and I would have foregone the trade down in the 5th round that gave us an extra 7th rounder. That's how I arrive at having two 2nd rounders, two 6th rounders and only one 7th rounder...which comprise the differences between my pick selection and what the Dolphins really executed.

    3. Doubles. I have always kind of liked the concept of doubling up at positions of need as a means of hedging your bets. You don't necessarily want two of the exact same player, because you don't want to punish yourself if you hit on both players. However, if they're similar enough, then you're hedging in case one doesn't work out. In this case Devon Wylie and Stephen Hill hedge each other out, yet if they both hit then there's room for both in the offense because Hill is a pure perimeter Z while Wylie is more of a slot receiver and return man. Osemele and Compton both play tackle but Compton is more athletic and either could play guard. Even Tank Carder and Winston Guy are doubles, because in my eyes both are sub-package players that could even compete for similar roles. Yet if Carder pans out he's going to be a linebacker, whereas if Guy pans out he'll be a safety. The two that are actually almost uncomfortably too similar would be Michael Egnew and Chase Ford...but hey I just really like both players and I think they give you versatility.

    4. Defensive End. This is a big need position but it's not as huge a need as people think. Back in 2010 the only pass rusher on roster aside from Cam Wake was a rookie Koa Misi, and the defense did fine. All I've done in this Draft at the position is take Malik Jackson in the 4th round, and that has more to do with opportunistic value picking that position slotting. Malik is actually more of an end/tackle hybrid, which Miami already has in spades. The bottom line is, once you get beyond the top ring of players at the pass rush positions in this Draft (mostly just Quinton Coples and Bruce Irvin), this class of pass rushers sucks. They're not very good at all. If I'm a scout, I'm watching the guys that could be in the 2013 NFL Draft and then I'm looking at these guys, and it's depressing. There's no comparison. I'd have given some consideration late in the Draft to Simon's guy Jonathan Massaquoi, or perhaps Cam Johnson whom I've eyeballed for a while, but really I'm more comfortable punting and waiting for the likes of Bjoern Werner, James Gayle, Dion Jordan, Barkevious Mingo, Malliciah Goodman, Alex Okafor and Corey Lemonier.

    5. UDFAs. I didn't want to do too much here that the Dolphins didn't already do because you can't just list these UDFAs you'd have signed unless you know they wanted to be here. They were all free to sign anywhere and for all you know, they could easily have told the Dolphins to go stuff themselves. We know they were able to sign Jonas Gray, Josh Samuda and Jeff Fuller, so I kept them. Larry Parker wasn't even signed with the original round of UDFAs. He didn't get signed on with the Cardinals until after a tryout. If Miami offered him a contract I'm positive he'd have signed. Jeff Adams I'm less sure about but I think Miami could have gotten him if they showed heavy immediate interest. He's also a long snapper.
     
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  4. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Would have made the first trade like CK, but I would have traded the 2 two's to STL for their 1st pick in the 2nd.
    R1 - QB Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State
    R2- DE Courtney Upshaw, Alabama
    R3a - TE Michael Egnew, Missouri
    R3b - WR Chris Givens, Wake Forrest
    R4 - OT Bobby Massie, Ole Miss
    R5 - WR Marvin Jones, Cal
    R6a - S Markelle Martin, OK State
    R6b - CB/S Alfonso Denard, Nebraska
    R7 - DE Cam Johnson, Virginia
     
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  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The reason I didn't do that and trade up for Courtney Upshaw was just because I didn't want to get crazy with the hypothetical trades. We can confirm via Jeff Ireland that he had a trade opportunity in his hand and decided not to execute it. That's the only reason I went ahead and hypothesized that trade. Otherwise I'm not about to just start doing this, well we can trade these two picks for this pick, blah blah blah...all hypothetical, not necessarily realistic, we have no idea if the Rams were even interested in a trade down as they may have really wanted Brian Quick whom they adore. I'm just not all about that stuff so I only did the one hypothetical because Ireland actually said it outright and I'm going to assume he wasn't lying (which may be a bad assumption).
     
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  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Under the assumption we get an extra 2nd to trade down.

    1) Brandon Weeden...The Natural..Just a very talented Qb...effortless game, touch, trajectory, Quick in the mind.

    2) Courtney Upshaw first choice/ Coby Fleener,2nd..used that extra 2 to move up for one of these, had to debate either Fleener or Upshaw, had to go Defense because of how I wanted to attack this draft offensively.

    3) Mohammed Sanu...Similar skillset to what we lost in Marshall, just with better hands, thick player, smart, works the horizontal underneath beautifully.

    3) Russell Wilson...Completely out of the box, I know, however, the player is so good that that line of thinking is fine in my book, I will get the last laugh, deal with all the BS later, just aquire great player.

    4) Devon Wylie..Just watch.

    Rebuilt offense......Done....Would of loved Fleener or Dwayne Allen on the team but, have to sacrifice one position to walk out with what I did.

    5) Tank Carder..Explosive payer, great personality for your team, excellent value.

    6) Markelle Martin..young athletic depth..

    7) Cliff Harris...Take the gamble, the talent is there.
     
  7. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Funny, I was just looking at the draft this morning before seeing this thread and thought about posting just this kind of thing (in view of Russell Wilson getting the start). I looked over the draft and these were just the suggestions I had thought about: My draft re-do would involve the following. I know you didn't say anything about a trade down but I'd have dropped 8-10 spots for whatever I could get within reason (I wouldn't care if it included picks next year. But, we'd have a shot at another 2nd or another 3rd) - draft:

    Round 1) #18-20: David DeCastro, OG (Stanford) - He will probably be a greater mainstay with the Steelers for the next 12 years than any player drafted by Miami in the last 2-3 years. At 6'5 he could possibly go to RT as well, but either way, he's dominant, sure fire starter for years to come. If they decided to every switch him to LG - my goodness, the C-LG-LT trio would arguably be the best in the NFL for the next 6-8 years. Among the players in round 1, I think DeCastro is probably one of five to seven the most reliable picks in that entire round.

    Round 2) #42: Stephen Hill, WR (Ga. Tech) - This fills a huge need. With Philbin and the offense I think they would do a great job teaching him and though, like many WR's, he might take a year to develop, he could be a star in this offense for years to come.

    Round 3) #72: Russell Wilson, QB (Wisconsin) - He was well liked in the draft and he looks like a keeper.

    Round 3) #78: Chris Givens, WR (Wake Forest) - This kid would be ideal for the Philbin offense. Would likely be ahead of Hill early on and would be another great weapon for the future. I also think there is a good chance Vernon would be available later on if they really loved him.

    Round 4) #97: Lamar Miller, RB (Miami) - same pick. I think this could be their best pick of the draft. Slow to develop but he has a future upside.

    That's as far as I have time to work through - after that, its much more of a crapshoot than it already is. But, I think the team and these players would be superior to what we have from that draft.

    Wilson - QB
    DeCastro - OG
    Hill - WR
    Givens - WR
    Miller - RB

    I would love that group. Those are five players with serious potential to be bonafide, solid starters in the league the next 5-10 years. On Miami, I think all five would have been starters by next year.

    * If we picked up a 2nd draft pick in round 2 as a result of a trade down (say in the 18-32 range of that round):

    #2 - Zach Brown, OLB (North Carolina) or Mike Adams, OT (Ohio St) or Dwayne Allen, TE (Clemson). And I'd go somewhere and be happy! Any of those three would be incredible to add to the above group. Probably would favor Allen (b/c he could potentially add blocking along with receiving talent):
     
  8. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    ... Great Minds ...
     
  9. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    1- Kuechly
    2- Fleener
    3- Sanu
    3- Wilson

    Hire me
     
  10. Jcouch1021

    Jcouch1021 New Member

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    Forcing myself to exclude Brandon Weeden and Ryan Tannehill...this one's as good as any...

    #008. DE Quinton Coples, North Carolina
    Comment: Not nearly the lazy player on the field that some say, dominated blockers in both phases, commanded extra attention, ridiculously strong with good burst off the ball and the ability to make the players around him better.

    #042. QB Russell Wilson, Wisconsin
    Comment: Don't take a chance trying to see how far down the board you can get him. Considering Luck and Griffin are already locked, and hypothesizing that Tannehill and Weeden are not destined for Miami, Wilson is the only other QB I predict to be a starter one day.

    #072. LB James-Michael Johnson, Nevada
    Comment: The Dolphins have been sniffing linebackers in Johnson's mold. This is the second best inside linebacker in the Draft outside of Luke Kuechly, and he's not as far from Kuechly in talent as many would think.

    #073. FS Markelle Martin, Oklahoma State
    Comment: Did not always take the right angles but very athletic with tremendous closing speed, leader on the defense, the ability to knock the hell out of players and to make early jumps on the football.

    #103. WR Devon 'Wiggles' Wylie, Fresno State
    Comment: Immediately takes over as punt returner, can take the top off a defense as well as be your electric RAC guy underneath the coverage, adding on top of that the ability to be quarterback-friendly because of ability to use uncommon vision to see the ball in flight and use uncommon quick feet to adjust to it.

    #145. TE Chase Ford, Miami (FL)
    Comment: Highly underrated player that should be yet another in a string of players that did not get the opportunities/coaching at The U that they will in the NFL. Watch his JUCO tape, watch his Shrine tape, and tell me The U didn't screw this one up.

    #196. OT Jeff Adams, Columbia
    Comment: Truly compelling athlete that notches all the boxes Mike Sherman wants to see from his offensive linemen in this zone-based system. Watched him play exceedingly well at Shrine practice against some good players.

    #215. WR Chris Owusu, Stanford
    Comment: Very smart player that is a phenomenal athlete at 6'0" and 196 lbs, running a 4.36 with a 40.5" vertical. Attacks the football in the air, can blow the top off a defense, runs smart and precise routes. Only reason you're getting him here is bad concussions. Roll the dice.



    Ck you posted this months ago... Would have loved this.
    I said
    floyd
    curry
    wilson
    martin

     
  11. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    08: Ryan Tannehill - Yeah Id still make the pick...we needed a QB and Im not sold on Weeden.
    42: Ruben Randle - Still need a WR and hes the BPA. Having a good camp with the NYG.
    72: Olivier Vernon - Staying the course, I think he can be a contributor to a good DL
    78: Jamell Fleming - Need a CB and less injury issues then Boykin. Had a mid 2nd round grade on him.
    97: Lamar Miller - Solid value here. Nothing with the pick. We needed an element of explosiveness and he provides that.
    155: Juron Criner - Has flashed at Raiders camp. Adds size we lack. Upside without reaching for a high-upside player in round 2 (Hill)
    183: Tommy Streeter or Marvin McNutt - I loved Streeter's size/speed combo
    215: Alfonzo Dennard - Steal blah blah blah. Dont know how in the world he dropped to round 7 when I had him as the 3rd best CB in the draft.
    227: Antonio Allen - SS in case Jones cant handle it. Had him as a late 5th. Owusu or staying with Matthews here would have been fine also
     
  12. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Bump!

    Will be interesting to see how these guys do in the future (so keeping it alive).

    But, would also be cool to do another one of these now for 2013. Don't have time to work through that (some already have here and there).
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I believe this was done right after the draft and we had to follow the script in terms of not picking a player before he went is his particular round..

    Leading up to the draft, if we had to stay put, I went with Kuechly, then it was obvious the whole league was sleeping on Wilson, so I wanted him early 2nd, instead of Martin, or move up to the late first if I had to..

    Sanu with the third.
     
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  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Any re-draft nowadays by all but a handful of teams should definitely have Russell Wilson as their top pick.
     
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  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Says right up at the top of the thread that you could have picked anyone that was still available at the pick, and it was done in early July.

    You did take Weeden first, but at least you went ahead and drafted Russell Wilson in the 3rd round anyway to be Kirk Cousins to Weeden's RG3.

    Personally I had a hard-on for Weeden for a long time but I saw three legit ways you could go during the off season. I thought you could sign Matt Flynn and then focus on drafting Brandon Weeden or Russell Wilson in the 2nd or 3rd round (didn't think Weeden would make it to the 2nd, which he didn't, so really this strategy focused on Wilson), or you could draft Ryan Tannehill at #8 overall, or you could focus on getting Weeden at some point after the #8 pick via a move-up if necessary.

    When the Seahawks did exactly that first option, I was really pretty jealous to be honest. I just admired the logic of it so much. They grabbed someone safe they knew could play within their offense, and then took the roll of the dice on a guy they had conviction in. I advocated signing Flynn at the beginning and would have advocated either Weeden or Wilson in the 2nd round in tandem with that. Since Weeden didn't make it to the 2nd round it would've been Russell Wilson.

    I didn't think you could grab a Russell Wilson and ONLY a Russell Wilson, because to me he was a boom-or-bust player. That really bucked the conventional wisdom of most all of the draft people at the time that saw him as a middle of the road backup, a guy that will never be exciting but also won't be terrible. I didn't agree with that at all. I thought he was either going to be just as good as he was in college, or he was going to be terrible because he can't see over the line or work the pocket. There wasn't much in-between for me. Either history was going to work against him on the height issue, or it was going to not matter at all and then he'd be just as special in the pros as he was in college. That's why it was such a great idea to pair him with a "safer" free agent signing.

    Of course, the REAL correct answer arguably ended up being to grab Peyton Manning at any cost, and then to draft Russell Wilson to be his backup. How incredibly set would a team be if they did that?
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I played the trade down game alongside not having to choose the player until he was actually picked in hindsight, which is where the double up philosophy stemmed from, and not having to take Wilson until the third...normal draft, Kuechly first Wilson 2nd, and if I was sweating somebody trying to get Wilson, move up into first.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If I was just doing best available player, I would have gone for Kuechly in the 1st. If I was going off the Dolphins' needs, I'd have gone with Coples.
     

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