Ah I think we snagged up a bit. I don't mean bat speed (though thats a good one too actually) I mean speed of the ball coming off the bat. It's a stat they keep for HR's mostly but I think would be effective for this type of thing. Also I believe you can somewhat control your BABIP. It's about bat control and identifying pitches. For example if something helps you identify pitches (Ive heard of players getting laser eye surgery they didn't need) or your bat control (or both) you have a better chance of making solid contact and hitting to specific spots (IE guys think "right side" or "middle" during an AB. Also if a PED is helping you recover/stay fresh isn't it possible that keeps your BABIP slightly higher due to less fatigue, better AB's and better contact?
They should have been banned sooner, they are banned for a reason now.....stop cheating the game and its rich history.
No we didn't snagged up, I knew what you meant about the speed of the ball coming off the bat, I simply just got lazy and wrote bat speed instead to save myself time. My fault. And no players can't control BABIP, once you put the ball in play the batter has no control as to whether the ball is an out of not. Players hit absolute rocket line drives at infielders that are caught, while a soft hit 300 hop ground ball can find a hole between infielders. Or an OFer can make an outstanding caught over the wall to rob a HR from a player, how could they possibly control that the ball is caught or not? And no PEDs have nothing to do with BABIP, BABIP has nothing to do with recovery time either. The fielder either catches the ball resulting in an out or not. It's that simple. Plus like Keith said, suspected and/or proven PED guys haven't had a major spike in BABIP, so we already have that data available to us.
By using coffee, aspirin and/or gauze tape would that lead to a suspension of 50 games if you're a MLB or MiLB baseball player?
Nope, cause the key difference is that baseball's sad history of those that try to cheat the game are correctly limited to Illegal drugs like cocaine embarrassments of the past, uppers/greenies, and the worst of the worst items like anabolic steroids, creams and clear that try to mask cheating, and synthetic testosterone, and human growth hormone. Happy that players get suspended and ultimately banned, and so far so good on voters allowing the cheaters to enter the HOF with a ticket only. Losers lose!
I was thinking about this the other day. I think if the speed of the ball was increased in a significant enough way to affect his BABIP, it'd show up in his power numbers, no? Hitting the ball harder would mean more XBHs & HR's, which hasn't happened.
This group of voters won't let that happen. It's going to take guys like us to infiltrate the sports media and become voters. Slightly OT but Dan LeBatard said once that he basically votes for everyone because he doesn't ever want to be that deciding vote to keep someone out.
The younger sports writers will vote those guys in because they simply don't care about PEDs the way the old guard or dinosaurs do.
Sadly it does. It reminded me of the competition that Brewers pitchers were having this year of throwing the slowest pitch. I wonder what Zito's pitch registered. Here is a link to the story in case anyone is interested. It's a good read. http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/7/4/3136070/zack-greinke-randy-wolf-brewers-slowest-pitch
Was gone for the weekend, so what happened, Melky created a fake website to try to get away with it!??!?!
Lucas Giolito was in the mix to be the No. 1 overall pick in this year’s draft until an elbow injury ended his high school season. He fell to the Nationals with the 16th overall pick and signed just before the deadline for $2.925 million. And now after just one minor-league start his elbow is injured again. Keith Law of ESPN.com reports that Giolito was pulled from his debut after two innings because he showed decreased velocity and the right-hander will be examined later this week by Dr. Lewis Yocum. Elbow surgery wouldn’t be a death sentence for an 18-year-old pitcher, obviously, and the Nationals would probably still have taken Giolito at No. 16 if they knew he’d need to go under the knife. Even after 12 months on the sidelines and the uncertain nature of the recovery in general his upside would still be much higher than a typical mid-first rounder.
yeah he was the high risk, huge reward player of the draft....besides Appeal, but Appeal was high risk more because of signability...
The Diamondbacks have traded Stephen Drew to the Athletics for minor league infielder Sean Jamieson, the team announced (on Twitter). The Athletics will pay the rest of Drew's 2012 salary, John Shea of the San Francisco Chronicle reports (on Twitter). Assistant GM David Forst says the A's haven't yet decided whether to pick up their side of Drew's 2013 mutual option. "Let's see how the next six weeks go," Forst told Casey Pratt of CSN Bay Area (on Twitter).
CBSSports.com Baseball Insider Jon Heyman reports that Athletics starting pitcher Bartolo Colon has failed a drug test and is now facing a 50-game suspension after testing positive for testosterone. synthetic Testosterone, the new in thing to try!
Under the assumption that these things dont aide or overly help or whatever argument to PED use (anabolic or metabolic steroids, or synthetic testosterone, HGH, or what have you, etc, etc, etc...) I still have to wonder why would players take this risk, if nothing was gained from taking them. And if something is gained, I stand by my OLD MEAN MAN approach of: "fine, screw them for cheating the game and dont vote them into the HoF." Its strange indeed, the risk with no reward mindset?
Didn't Colon get some crazy kind of surgery on his arm/shoulder/elbow in the DR a few years ago? I absolutely understand why Colon would risk taking PEDs though or anyone in his situation. At the time the guy was barely hanging on to a MLB career, why not try something that might aid him in doing better. I mean if he does nothing then he's probably out of the game shortly but if he tries a PED and they help then he might be able to prolong his career and even possibly get a big payday out of it. I totally get it from the player's point of view. And although it's my stance that PEDs don't do much to help a player, I do think they helped aid Colon, even if it helped him recover quickier. His performance the past year and a half compared to how he was basically out of baseball as an effective player from 2008ish on is kind of hard to ignore. So while I continue to argue they did little to help Melky, I do think they helped Colon even if it was just slightly. Again how much, who knows.
I also think these PEDs (big paint brush) do or must aide in recovery (aka The Andy P. excuse/rationale). Colon's surgery, I think is the same one Kobe, Arod, and others have (just shoulder and not knee) but not 100% sure, and not sure if anything "illegal" in MLB was done as part of the procedure. Its interesting but again, until proven otherwise, and now that they are banned, I think if the preponderance of the evidence is that Player X did take PEDs I am fine with the "Shoeless Joe Jackson/Pete Rose" treatment! Treat them as if they tarnished the game. So be it. But do suspect the floodgates to the Hall will be opened once a known PED guy gets voted in.
Which I think would be extremely funny/ironic because if anyone thinks every player that's currently in the HOF right now is 100% clean I have a few bridges I'm looking to sell.
Let's play this.......WHO are guys you feel are in HoF and took Roids (ana or meta), HGH, or Synthetic Testosterone? I clearly, nor naively think any institution is 100% perfect, but really curious as to who you feel was aided by these now banned substances, and is in the HoF.
I don't like to name names, especially since I would have zero evidence to back up my "claims" nor have I really studied any numbers but anyone from the what 1970s on is probably fair game, especially the players who played in the late 80s to mid 2000s. I will say that probably any player that played from what 1930 to 2006ish (really just throwing out years here) probably took at least one greenie in their playing career, I know you don't consider them a PED but they do aid in performance, hence why they're illegal now. I mean would it shock you if Roberto Alomar or Rickey Henderson took them at least once in their career? What about Dennis Eckersley, only because he was around Canseco and McGwire all those years (same with Henderson)? They say PEDs help the body heal faster so what about Cal Ripken, Jr who never was on the DL and played every game ever? Nolan Ryan pitching well into his 40s without any real decreased velo, that certainly could raise eyebrows. Maybe Wade Boggs used at the tail end of his career to try and hold on one more year? The thing is is we just don't know. It's easy to point to guys like Bonds but then there's the Melky Cabrera's and Jeremy Giambi's of the world that took them too that we would never know used unless they got caught. Sorry it's a bit of a cop out not really answering your question I just don't have a clue, nor really care if they did or not because unfortunately it was part of the game at one time and everyone turned the other way because everyone was making money, they only started to care because they had too once the feds came around. The easy answer would be Sparky Anderson and Tommy Lasorda though. So yes I say Anderson and Lasorda. EDIT: And Rollie Fingers' mustache. That thing HAD to be PED aided.
No problem, I knew no known players have been elected, and agree several are potential. As we agree, none of us know for sure, and while we also agree no institution is 100% clean, the above bolded part applies to me as well, I too dont have a clue, nor do I care about the past, as it cant be changed. However, perhaps our difference, is that aside from speculation of the past, I am saying in the present, if voters want to not vote for known failed test guys, or where the preponderance of evidence leading to a "labeled" PED users and keep them out of the HoF, I say thats fine by me. The PED era did tarnish the game and its numbers in my book, and wouldnt care if not a single player ever gets voted in that played during it. I am not one who feels GENERATIONS or BEST OF A GIVEN PERIOD OF TIME should be voted in, just to have a representative. Let decades go without a HoF member, fine by me. And greenies are not PEDs any more than Coffee is....but they are drugs like Cocaine and thats why they were banned when the Pittsburgh scandal broke. Nice one about Rollie!
Thats means Pedro Martinez, Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter, and others wouldn't get in which would suck pretty badly...
But then it means guys like Jeter, Maddux, Randy Johnson, Pedro, Rivera etc won't get voted in because they happened to be playing during that time period and that wouldn't be fair. Even known PED users like Bonds and Manny should be in the HOF, simply put on their plaque that they admitted to using or failed a test etc. But for someone like Manny who was actually suspended for using his penalty could be he can't make a speech during induction or attend any HOF dinners or whatever they do for them. After all the HOF is only a museum, wouldn't it be odd if some of the games best players are missing because they did something that wasn't against the rules at the time? I get from a historical/numbers sense the game is somewhat tainted but when you bounce your grandkids on your knee are you going to pretend Barry Bonds wasn't a great hitter or Clemens wasn't a great pitcher, or pretend they never existed? Or will you tell them they were great but their numbers are most likely tainted because they used PEDs? I mean I know when I talk to my future kids/grandkids about baseball I'm going to mention I was lucky enough to see Clemens pitch live or just how unreal Bonds was in 2001 but also let them know they were up to something fishy. Again though that's just me.
I said "I" wouldnt be upset if the outcome was that no one from the era got in.....we all know that's not going to be the result. Hopefully its a while for the non-Jeter's, Maddux, Johnson, Pedro, Rivera get voted in. Bonds and Manny should not in my book. But its just my opinion. I love the HoF, and it doesnt bother me to visit it and know Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose arent there whether anyone thinks they should or shouldnt. I will tell my Grandkids someday the same things I have told my own children and place anyone of these PEDs guys in the same category as SJ and PR. So be it. While its a great idea about the plaque you and I know it will never be allowed or happen. Same with no speech as part of the ceremony, just never would happen to try to push this idea. Its all or nothing, and I am fine with nothing approach if I had a vote.
