Strong argument for his value as a Justin Tuck type player, 1st/2nd down defensive end, 3rd down pass rushing defensive tackle. But I'd like to see more of the first clip, him getting pass rush from the inside. He really lined up like a 4 technique on that play.
I tell ya, Ga Tech's fullback was probably glad as heck when that game was over, as Ziggy put a repeated lickin' on him. The pad-popping was impressive. Gotta' at least tip the hat to the force he can generate.
You'd take a Tuck type player at 12, no? I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility he develops into an end that doesn't need to move inside, although I don't necessarily view it as a bad thing considering the stud Giant pass rushers spend time rushing from inside. I agree, I'd like to see more of what he did in the first clip as well. I just think the addition of an Ansah caliber athlete, and the physicalness & violence he plays with, is exactly what our defense needs to elevate its status, and I genuinely can't think of a better defender in this draft to help neutralize this new wave of mobile QBs. I'd think a guy like Ansah would have the opportunity to tally as many busted protection/QB scramble sacks in today's game as an outstanding speed rusher running the arc, or at least close to it.
If he could pass rush from the interior like Justin Tuck? Sure. But even with one clip of him pass rushing a guard from the equivalent alignment (relative to the guard) of a wide 9, I'm not sure we've seen enough evidence he's going to do that. What about Tank Carridine? He led his team in tackles while he was healthy. You don't see him doing the same thing as Ansah, but with a clearer path to being valuable on 3rd downs?
If we're looking at it from a strictly pass rush standpoint, I agree, Carradine offers more, but as far as total package is concerned, IMHO, I see Ansah physically inflicting his will in ways that I don't see possible from Carradine, as Ziggy has borderline man amongst boys potential. With the rarity of those types of players I wouldn't pass on one hoping to get Carradine later. I'd take Ansah and excitedly still take Carradine in the 2nd, as they're different players in my eyes. They would be my bookends of the future with Ansah at strong side and Carradine the weak. Considering we already have an outstanding speed rusher, IMO a beastly presence like Ziggy opposite would serve a better compliment, with Tank grooming as Cam's heir. I'd think that, by the time Carradine is fully ready to assume the full time starting role, Wake would be ready to transition to nickel rusher, but they could always serve in rotation while allowing us flexibility based on the type of offense faced. Heck, even if we didn't have Cam I'd still take Ziggy first b/c IMO he's a more difficult type of player to find. IMHO, Ziggy is a better athlete, is more twitchy (despite Carradine having a better first step), is the best in this draft at keeping his feet clean, takes better angles, is better in pursuit and making plays from the backside, has a quicker closing burst, has the potential to make more plays at or behind the LOS and does a better job minimizing gains, gets his hands on more passes, is considerably more stout against the run, plays with more violence, spends less time on the ground, can better get himself back into a play that he's been taken out of, seems more heady, plays with better leverage, plays bigger, plays with better instincts, awareness, & decisiveness IMO, and a greater sense of overall naturalness. I'm not in the least saying Carradine isn't any of these things [he is the better pass rusher], but I feel the sum of Ansah's parts are greater. And just as you have concerns about Ansah's pass rush ability, I have concerns about Carradine's pass rush when facing better NFL tackles capable of neutralizing his speed. It's of course not enough concern to make me not draft him but it's enough for me to not take him at 12, at least not over Ansah.
Mike Glennon looked like crap until the 2nd half where he got into some what of a rhythm but my god this has to be the worst QB class in a long time. I think Geno and Barkley are the only worthy guys worth taking in round 1 Tyler Wilson should be the next QB taken but man I'm glad we got Tannehill. Also Hunt is trash. CK you're right. After seeing those practices and the game Hunt shouldn't be touched until Round 4+. What does everyone think of Marquise Goodwin? Might be the biggest riser from the Senior Bowl.
The measurables and the bowl game against Fresno State's overmatched freshman right tackle I'm sure. Easy mistake to make. Even I had to step back and counsel myself as I watched and was thinking "WOW! ANOTHER J.J. WATT!!!"
I don't know if Marquise Goodwin is going to be the biggest riser from the Senior Bowl. I think Cornelius Washington will take that title. He went from a guy you couldn't pick out of a lineup as he underwhelmed with only 22 tackles, 3.0 TFLs and 0.5 Sacks in 2012...to a guy that could genuinely go 3rd or 4th round. That's a HUGE jump. At least Marquise Goodwin (who will probably go same area, 3rd or 4th round) was never lower than the 5th round. There's no way scouts could've even given a 5th round grade to Cornelius Washington without getting to see him rush the passer straight up in practices and in the game against those All Star tackles. Robert Alford the corner might've made a similar jump. Could be a 3rd round pick now. Scouts had him graded well before but you couldn't have REALLY known until you saw him going against the All Star receivers. Same with B.W. Webb.
I think if your hellbent on going offense, and you don't like what's left at 12 from a defensive standpoint, try and trade down a bit and select Eifert...MR C won't like to hear this but I will continue to say he is the most impactful offensive skill player in the draft, and apparently were in the market for offensive weapons....and Ertz is not in the same league imo, so it's not just a well, if we miss out we can grab Ertz later type thing...the difference is substantial imo... Complete player, three down player, no weaknesses with mentioning..
That I can go with, he would be good at that. But imo still a pass rush liability- how often in the game did he squarely beat opposing OTs? Again, as per the sacks good for him, but what I see is troubling- he gets stuffed by OTs off the snap and just stands there, like he has no idea what to do or he's planning on jumping to try and deflect a pass. If the QB rolls out he can roll with them very well, granted. I agree, great DE on busted plays, but just piss poor as a classic DE who is trying to beat the OT on passing downs, bend the arc and get to the QB. Just awful. Chasing around Russell Wilson on a busted play? Sure. Getting after Tom Brady in the pocket on 3rd and long? Not so much.
Everyone says this and then we see some quality come out of drafts. If you coach the guy up and get him in the right scheme, he'll be fine. That can happen with Glennon. And don't read so much into one week so you forget the season's tape.
Simon's been banging this drum forever and he's right, we just can't possibly know until after free agency. I do know this. Lane Johnson proved that he would be a worthy get at 12 overall. It would be similar to the Mike Pouncey thing in 2011. In one sense, you pretty much know you're getting a really good player...and that's kind of your job as a drafter. In another sense, you wonder if you're allocating your resources correctly or if the picking of this player shines a spotlight on previous mistakes.
They said it about the 2011 class and they were wrong. This class is not the 2011 class, IMO. That class had a lot of quality in it. This one does not.
There's always SOME...you rarely go through a draft and not have at least one guy come out of it. I've not really cooled on Matt Barkley as much as other people have. I think he's probably that one guy. But where the 2011 class I felt had probably four guys in it, and maybe even as high as five or six, I feel like this class has at most two or three guys in it. And that's an at most thing, I'm betting on one to two.
What I always liked to point out about the 2011 class of quarterbacks is that you had a bunch of rare characteristics in that class. 1. Mobility. You had Cam Newton, Colin Kaepernick, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder all of whom test like wide receivers in terms of sheer athletic ability. 2. Size. You had a bunch of size in that Draft. Mallett was 6'7", Newton 6'6", Kaepernick 6'5", Gabbert and Stanzi both 6'4". The "short" guys (Locker, Yates, Ponder, Dalton) were all 6'3" and 6'2". And none of them were weirdly skinny, either. All were very solidly built. 3. Winning. You had one guy in Newton that was undefeated. A couple of others in Dalton and Kaepernick won like 13 games I believe. Mallett and Gabbert won 10 games a piece. Ponder was 8-3. Stanzi and Yates won 8 games. The only guy left out from a winning standpoint was Jake Locker. 4. Arm strength. Really at least 5 of the quarterbacks had not just "decent" or "good" arm strenght, but near ideal arm strenght. And 3 of them (Mallett, Kaepernick and Newton) had truly ideal arm strength, the kind that would immediately make them among the strongest arms in the league. Even the weaker arms (Ponder, Dalton, Yates, Stanzi) weren't as weak as made out to be, especially Ponder who showed an ability to really rip it when healthy, especially on the run. Ponder never had worse than a Dysert arm, for example. There were other attributes that made that class, taken as a whole, unique. I'm probably forgetting a few. I believe I made statistical production-based argument as well, especially regarding accuracy as I believe only Locker had under 60 percent completion. There were definitely warts but no matter what, it was a unique class because of the sheer number of quantifiable, tangible positives that were present in the class. Apply that standard to this class and it really shows how failing it is. You could argue that the size and the arm strength are there for this class. I think that argument is definitely there. Although I would point out that where none of the tall guys were weirdly skinny or thin in 2011, both Bray and Glennon are paper thin in this class. But Mike Glennon and Geno Smith only won 7 games, going 7-6 a piece. Tyler Wilson and Zac Dysert were both 4-8 and Tyler Bray was 5-7. At least E.J. Manuel was 12-2, and Landry Jones was 10-3, and Matt Barkley was 7-3 going on 7-4 when he went down injured. Ryan Nassib was 8-5. And as for mobility...this class comes up WAY short. Like I said you had 5 guys that tested out practically like wide receivers in terms of sheer athletic ability. In this class you've got only 2 guys, Geno Smith and E.J. Manuel. Everyone else is your typical upright pocket passer that can't buy themselves too much time. Some of them, like Landry Jones, Tyler Bray and Mike Glennon, are statues. Nassib and Dysert are no more mobile really than T.J. Yates was. At least Barkley has quick feet and has shown the ability to move and improvise on the run even if he's not quite better than a 4.8 guy. As I said before in the 2011 class only one guy had below 60 percent completion. Three of the top tier quarterbacks in this class have below 60 percent completion, Tyler Wilson, Tyler Bray and Mike Glennon.
If that's not what you were suggesting then it's hard to see what you were trying to say. Every draft is going to have some prospects that rate higher than some prospects of another draft. I'm sure this wasn't what you were trying to say, but what you said could simply mean Mike Glennon and Landry Jones rate higher than Tyrod Taylor and Nate Enderle.
No. Was referring to the likes of Ponder and Gabbert, both first round selections. Glennon, for example, has more talent than both of them, to me.
I think he's just as bad at dealing with pressure as Gabbert, and less accurate to boot. Not nearly as mobile, either.
Even if he's not quite as bad at dealing with pressure as Gabbert, he's still bad at it. And not nearly as athletic, so you're not going to be able to do things with him that you could try and do with Gabbert that might alleviate the pressure.
Glennon was unflappable vs FSU at one point, hanging in on every throw in the come from behind, but getting that from him consistently in the NFL is my concern. He's not athletic per say but I think he has decent pocket mobility, especially for his size, and he's lighter on his feet than most QBs his height IMO. I was actually surprised to find out he's 6'7 b/c I thought he moved like a smaller guy (than 6'7) and threw the ball like a smaller guy. I'm still not a fan of tall QB's (6'6 1/2 and above) b/c I feel the height leaves too much room to go wrong with their mechanics on any particular throw and as such can leave them more prone to running hot and cold. I will say, I think Glennon plays smaller than Osweiller, in a good way..... but I wouldn't hedge my franchise on him with a mid 1st rounder or above, and a late 1st wouldn't inspire me to run out to Costco for the whore size tub of lube.
Not to be overly hard on Ansah, but this from GBN is pretty much a reflection of the parts of the game that I saw as per his performance: "However, the tape also showed that just about every play that Ansah made in the game came on plays in which he wasn't blocked at all or was blocked by a TE. He also got some penetration when going against Wisconsin OT Ricky Wagner, but just about everybody that Wagner faced all week got a lot of penetration. In fact, in normal pass rush situations against other OTs, Ansah made very little impact. As he did during the week, Ansah's only pass-rush technique was to put his hands into the blocker's chest and try and bull-rush him into the pocket. And while he did try a couple of spin moves, there was virtually no evidence of any even rudimentary pass-rush technique. Even the highlight reel sack on which Ansah forced the fumble came after his initial charge was stopped, but he was able to track down the QB after he left the pocket." http://www.gbnreport.com/seniorbowlgamereport.htm Spot on, from what I saw. I don't see this guy as a 1st rd pick, I see him as a project with a lot of upside. 2nd rd guy and not a particularly good fit for Miami. Also: "The other DE in last week's Senior Bowl who turned heads was Georgia's Cornelius Washington, although there's not much fancy to his game. Washington is pretty much a pure power rusher who likes to set up very wide and then goes 100 miles an hour at the pocket. And while there isn't much lateral agility there, Washington was effective getting the edge by driving into the shoulder of opposing blockers and knocking them off balance. At the same time, though, Washington did not show much in the way of ball awareness or change of direction ability; he was also much less effective when he lined up over the OT and too often was taken out of the play when influence blocked.
Well of course he doesn't move like a normal 6'7" player. He's not built like a normal 6'7" player. You'd normally expect a 6'7" player to be pretty heavy, around 235-245 lbs. The weight simply dictates that kind of weight. Instead, Glennon is so thin if he turned sideways in the shower he wouldn't get wet. The NFL will want to pack meat on his bones and when they do, he won't even move as well as he does (which isn't well, IMO). Glennon had a good game against FSU. Rarely had a really good game otherwise. And I disagree on his handling of pressure. He looks scared of it, to me.
I think the observations on Ansah are spot on, but I also think Todd has done a really good job explaining why what Zeke presents could be very valuable especially as the NFL is adapting to more mobile quarterbacks and the option game. That's the point Ansah and his agent have to drive home to NFL decision-makers...and I think it's a damn fine one. On the other hand, while most of what he said about Cornelius Washington was true, the thing I think he's missing is his ability to bend the arc around the outside, which he actually displayed at Georgia in the few situations in which he was allowed to. I don't think Washington, from what I saw in practice, was in any way just a bull rusher. Used his hands in concert with his explosive movement ability to shock and shed blockers, and he's shown the flexibility to dip around the outside. However, he's right in that Washington doesn't look very versatile. Being used in a jack-of-all-trades manner at Georgia was exactly how he got buried to where nobody knew about him. Thing is, Miami is going to face some immobile passers in 2013 and while the mobile guys are indeed becoming more popular, the immobile guys are still there. For example next year Miami will face the AFC North and NFC South. That means Brandon Weeden, Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco and Ben Roethlisberger in the AFC North, Matt Ryan and Drew Brees in the NFC South. While Big Ben didn't used to be a pocket passer, nowadays he is. Goes without saying that Weeden and Flacco are targets in the pocket, as is Matt Ryan. Drew Brees is a pocket passer. He can move around a little bit but he does his work from the pocket. The mobile guys they'll face from that lot are Cam Newton and Josh Freeman. I think Freeman is becoming a lot more of a pocket passer than he used to be. He scrambled only 19 times this year on his 604 drop backs. Then within our own division you've got the Patriots and Tom Brady two times, obviously at the forefront of immobile, pocket passers. We don't yet know who will be quarterbacking for the Bills or Jets. I think the Bills are very likely to march out a new quarterback in 2013, and I literally have no idea what the Jets will do. Thing is, what are their options? One of them could get hold of Geno Smith and he will be mobile, but will he really be hard to defend as a rookie? I don't think so. The other could get Matt Flynn or Matt Barkley, and either would qualify as pocket passers. So right away you have potentially as many as 15 games played this year against pocket guys. That's why I would think it would behoove Miami to grab a role player that threatens a traditional pocket, like a Cornelius Washington.
When healthy, Tank is lower risk than Ansah and has more polish and technique tools though not more physical tools. But now there is the question of whether Tank will have lost and quickness, any strength, any flexibility, and confidence to be as extreme planting the leg and dipping and driving on an angle around the corner, etc. and of course, might he miss time with more injuries after we spend a high pick on him. Neither Ansah nor Tank are worth a 12 with their question marks and they are my favorite DEs in the draft... Except maybe Werner, who I didn't look at too much as I expect him to be off the board.
Add me to that pile. I liked Hunt from the waist up, but from the waist down he was a no thanks. Played like two different guys divided at the waist.
I have a problem with this, but. Ot from a value standpoint. It's wasteful because somehow our coaching staff is taking these players and producing a bad OLine performance. Didn't PFF rank our line twenty-somethingth just this week? With an overall First at left tackl, a Pro Bowl guy at LG, a 1st rounder (should have also been a Pro Bowler) at Center, a reclamation project who didn't rank or grade that poorly at RG as the weakest entry, and a second round pick at RT. So we have those kind of resources and assets in our OLine and we are bottom third of the league? It would be poss poor management of a company to invest in another top resource for a division that was so grossly underproducing on the resources they were being provided. To give another first round pick to Jim Turner at this point is like sending your bad stockbroker another million dollars to lose for you.
I agree. Glennon IMO isn't any better than 5th or 6th QB in this draft. I hope the Jets or Bills take him. He's a very poor man's Drew Bledsoe in the pocket, or for the really old fans, like me, a very poor man's Norm Snead.
Thanks Chris. That's a fair point about noting our upcoming schedule. It'll certainly be interesting to see what direction NY and Buffalo go in the draft before us <I like saying "before us." lol>. On the flip side we could also add in a post season perspective where the schedule is undetermined but may include having to beat Luck, RG3, Wilson, Kaepernick, and Rodgers who likes working from a moving pocket. With drafting Ansah, I would think we're probably not looking at him making an impact until 2014, which we don't yet know the schedule of, and by then we could/should see more mobile QBs push their way into the league. It could be sort of a calculated risk taking him, which I think you're indirectly implying, but at the same time I don't think you can go wrong having a Ziggy Ansah on your team. On the low side you end up with an athletic playmaking end but with the pass rush ability of an average one. On the high side you have an impact player with a unique pass rush/containment ability in a league that's going/gone more mobile. If we had 2 equally gifted ends but one was a better pure pass rusher (like Wake), I'd take the better pass rusher over Ansah, but considering we already have Cam and there doesn't seem to be another one in the top 12 of this draft, I would look heavily at Ansah to play opposite him. I just love the thought of combining Cam's initial pressure forcing QBs from the bushes with Ziggy's stalk and kill ability. However, I will say- if we were Buffalo I don't think I'd want Ansah paired with Mario Williams. I wouldn't be opposed to taking other guys at 12, so that's certainly not an issue with me. Agree with with what you said about Washington. Early in the week when I first saw him beat a tackle I was like, "eh, if he's from Georgia and isn't heralded he's probably not a good prospect". Then it happened again and I was like, "this tackle must suck". Then it happened again..... and again..... until I had to take notice.
You're welcome. You made an excellent case for Ansah. About as good as could be expected given that nobody ever changes anyone's mind on the internet, lol. Whoooaaaa, there. You realize what you just implied, about facing NFC quarterbacks in the post season? Yeah that's pretty much the thought process. Then you watch him play and you kind of understand it better. Just weren't putting him in position to use his strengths...which speaks to his own limitations as a player, but also tells you what you might do with him differently that could make him better. Spitting image of Mark Anderson. Uncanny.
