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2016 MLB Season Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Vertical Limit, Mar 31, 2016.

  1. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Soler should have been running on his triple, yes. However, in his defense, many other players would have handled that in a similar way, and he's had a history of leg troubles for his entire career that have caused him to miss numerous games, and the team has instructed him to take it easy, to keep his bat in the lineup.

    The bigger issue is the Cubs failure to get good wood on almost anything that the Cleveland pitchers have thrown. They aren't even getting hard, deep fly ball outs, and have yet to hit a homer. That has to change tonight, or they're in trouble. And if it doesn't happen, they're going to spend the entire next year wondering how to make it happen next October. :unsure:
     
  2. Not So Fast

    Not So Fast Well-Known Member

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    Congrats to the Cubs. What a comeback. 3-1 leads are no longer a good thing anymore, lol.
     
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  3. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    They had to make it as exciting and stressful as humanly possible, after going up 5-1 last night as well. I feel like I've been on the edge of my seat since the beginning of October.

    With this one out of the way, I'm excited to see this young team grow. Its all gravy from here, and the Cubs have most of their best players locked up for another five years or more.
     
  4. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Geez I have no idea how any Cubs or Indians fan survived last night, I felt like I was going to have a heart attack and/or throw up. I thought being a Sox fan in 2003 and 2004 was bad but that 1 game was intense.

    Congrats to you Unlucky (might want to change your user name now?) and the other Cub fans. They were the best team in baseball all year.

    I feel bad for Cleveland fans, they had a hell of a team and one can only imagine how far they would have gotten if they had Salazar and Carasco starting some of these WS games instead of Bauer and Tomlin.

    Bring on the off season! Free agency officially starts on Monday night at 11:59 pm. Winter meetings are in 33 days and pitchers and catchers report in 104 days.
     
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  5. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    Both teams should be better next year that is the scary thing!
     
  6. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    It's certainly possible but both teams need to make improvements in the offseason. I wonder about the Cubs SPers going forward, Lackey is getting older, Hendricks might have had a career year. The Cubs pen seemed like a mess in the playoffs. With Cleveland, their OF has some holes, they need to resign Napoli or get a 1B, I worry about Salazar holding up for a full season too. I think the Cubs are in a better position just based on their current roster, farm system and cash available to get back to the WS than Cleveland.

    But all teams are headed into the offseason with question marks and needing to upgrade in spots.
     
  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    The Cubs positional roster is set for a long time. Those guys are only going to get better, which I'm giddy about.

    The starting pitchers are more of a concern, yes. Lester was great, but he's probably going to get a little worse here on out every season, and maybe fall way off late in his contract. But you know what, thats ok. We won the thing, and that was part of the reason to sign him to the six year deal he wanted. I think that he'll be solid for a few more years. Arrieta is a bigger question. Something happened about halfway through this year, and his magic wore off. He's still good, but his control can just not be there some days. They'll likely sign him for one year, and then when hes a free agent in 2018, likely let him sign big elsewhere. Hendricks I think is going to be a solid starter for a long time. Maybe not Cy Young calibre good, but #2, and we need a cheap guy like that behind Lester. Lackey was a band aid inning eater #4 starter, and will be again in 2017. Then he's gone. Jason Hammel, who was our #5, has a big team option likely to be declined. The team will likely look to move Jorge Soler for a younger, controllable #3 type. The team will likely throw big money at a TOR starter a year from now.

    The bullpen is weird. Rondon, Strop and Montgomery were all extremely reliable all year. I dont know if they just wore out at the end, but Maddon seemed to have little faith in them vs Cleveland. I don't know what to expect with Chapman. I'd honestly like to explore someone else, but the team needs a lights out closer. He may be back and we have to live with his deal.
     
  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Just for fun, the length of contract/team control on the Cubs primary roster. Bold indicates they're under cheap, pre-arbitration control in 2017+:

    C Wilson Contreras - 2022
    1B Anthony Rizzo - 2021
    2B Javy Baez - 2021
    SS Addison Russell - 2021
    3B Kris Bryant - 2021
    LF Kyle Schwarber - 2021
    RF Jason Heyward - 2023 (could opt out after 2018)
    UT Ben Zobrist - 2019

    OF Jorge Soler - 2020
    OF Albert Almora - 2022

    SP John Lester - 2020
    SP Jake Arrieta - 2017
    SP Kyle Hendricks - 2020
    SP John Lackey - 2017

    RP - Hector Rondon - 2018
    RP Pedro Strop - 2017
    RP/SP Mike Montgomery - 2021 (may replace Hammell as #5 starter)
    RP Justin Grimm - 2019
    RP Carl Edwards - 2020
     
  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Also fun, because I'm on a high today. Cubs all time post season leaderboard after last night. I imagine it will be fun for these guys to chase each other around the leader board over the coming seasons.

    Home Runs

    #1, Tie. (5) - Kris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo, Kyle Schwarber, Dexter Fowler. Javy Baez, Addison Russell and Jorge Soler are all tied for 7th with 3.

    RBI

    #1 Russell (14), #2 Bryant (13), #3 Rizzo (12), #4 Baez (11), #5T Schwarber (10)

    Doubles

    #1 Fowler (7), #2T Bryant (6), #5T Rizzo, Zobrist (5), #7T Baez (4)

    Pitching Strikeouts

    #1 Arrieta (53), #2 Lester (44), #6 Hendricks (30), #8 Chapman (21)

    Lester is also #9 all time in MLB Postseason, with 177 K for his career. He's likely to move way up that list if the Cubs keep making the playoffs.
     
  10. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I do wonder if the Cubs had lost that game how Maddon would have been received as he was awful last night managing. He might be great in the clubhouse but his on the field moves are questionable. He's getting hammered in New York right now basically saying he's one of the few managers that wins the WS and his stock goes down. A lot of people think he was over managing or trying to make the game about his genius particularly about the awful bunt call in the 9th. It would have been extremely interesting to see what Theo and Co would have said or done if the Cubs lost.
     
  11. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I keep hearing this. But other than that two strike bunt, what was his other moves that were the issue?




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  12. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    In Game 7, I thought he pulled Hendricks too early, bringing in Lester on the mound mid inning, Chapman going back out for the 9th when he was clearly on flumes and supposedly crying in the dugout. Just because those moves may have worked out doesn't mean they weren't bad moves.

    I also thought his handling of Chapman in Game 6 was questionable as well. I get it was an elimination game so I don't have a problem with him bringing him in in the 7th with Lindor up, even if the Cubs had a 5 run lead, but to bring him back with a 7 run lead in the 9th was just silly. If your pen can't get 3 outs without giving up 7 runs you don't deserve to be there.

    I thought Francona had a poor Game 7 too. It seemed like both teams, dugouts included, were extremely tight and it showed.

    Don't get me wrong, I do think Maddon is one of the better managers in the game today and if he was a free agent I'd want him as my manager. I guess I just don't think Maddon is the great in game manager the media leads you believe he is.
     
  13. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I actually thought all those moves were correct. I've complained in the past about Joe in game managing, while he was Rays head coach. So I'd agree he isn't the best in game manager. But I thought Hendricks clearly didn't have his best stuff. Lester was the obvious choice there. And I don't care that it's in the middle of an inning. It's game 7, you can't afford to wait until next inning because you think Lester would be more comfortable doing so.

    Chapman running on fumes is better than 90% of other MLB closers. You ride with him unless he gets himself into trouble. Which he really didn't. Pitch selection in the 9th was not good. But for the most part he let a guy on, and then a guy reach out and poked one over the fence. It wasn't like he threw a cockshot and the hitter let it loose.

    I thought game 7 for the most part was well managed from Joe.


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  14. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Again I will state that just because some of the moves worked out doesn't mean they were good moves.

    Jon Lester hasn't pitched out of the bullpen since 2007, when he made 1 regular season appearance and 2 in the ALCS. 2 out of the 3 times he pitched out of the pen it was to start the inning, the only time he came in in the middle of the inning he gave up 2 runs. Obviously SSS but it had been 9 years since he did that. I love Lester but like most SPers he's a creature of habit (taking time to warm out getting into his routine) and is a bit of a basket case with his issues pitching with runners on base. He had also thrown 90 pitches 2 days before. It was a 5 to 1 ball game with 2 outs and the Cubs had a win expectancy of 89%. With a runner on base, granted it was Santana, and Kipnis up I would have let Hendricks continue pitching or put in Montgomery there to try and get LHH Kipnis out and if he didn't turn then Lindor around to his right side, who is slightly weaker then hitting lefty. If for some reason Montgomery couldn't get Kipnis or Lindor out I would have had a RHPer ready to face Napoli, who is a career .276/.387/.517 hitter vs. LHPers, as he would be coming up as the potential tying run. Then have Lester ready to pitch the 6th with a clean inning.

    And no Chapman on fumes is not better than 90% of the other MLB closers, the guy was tired and had nothing on the mound. Maddon and the Cubs were lucky in the 9th. They were fortune that Kipnis and Lindor in particular had very poor at bats against him, Kipnis I believe swung at two pitches that would have been ball 4 and Lindor swung at the first pitch with an easy pop up. Chapman had thrown 62 pitches combined in Games 5 & 6 and was already on fumes in Game 6. Which is the reason why he pitched so poorly in the 8th. And he already had thrown 20 more pitches. Plus reports are the guy was in tears in the dugout. I was the wrong move that happened to work out.

    I get that it was the top of the order and you should have your best pitcher throwing to them in that spot but at that point I don't think Chapman was the best pitcher available due to the mileage on his arm.

    I will say that at the time I questioned both of those moves as I didn't agree with them. The bunt was completely foolish and I'm still trying to think of why the hell a MLB Manager would call that, that's something you don't even see in Little League, I think Joe was over managing there and trying to get too cute.
     
  15. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I understand that things may be looked at differently in places like New York or Boston, but Maddon isn't going anywhere right now with the Cubs. He is beloved both by his players and most fans. He's also signed to a hefty contract for three more years, and has led his clubs to 90+ wins in six of the past seven seasons. I think that the most likely case is that he manages the Cubs for the remained of his contract, or is maybe bought out after two years, and the team then looks at what direction they want to go with a long term answer as the players mature. Perhaps Joe Girardi, who's 12 years younger than Maddon, would be interested in coming home to finish his career with the Cubs.
     
  16. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    You don't think I know results doesn't mean they were correct lol

    And that guy that had "nothing" was throwing 99. Please.

    And please explain how he had a "bad 8th". Talk about results deciding whether decision worked out or not. He let one guy on and then a guy reach out on a pitch away, put a B swing on a pitch and got lucky to poke one out.


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  17. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    His fastball had no movement and was as straight as an arrow, which is why he was basically throwing all sliders in the 9th. He gave up 3 hits in the 8th, two of which were hit hard, the HR and the double. The HR he gave up would have been a HR in 28 out of 30 MLB parks.
     
  18. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I agree with Ray, it was pretty clear that Chapman was gassed and ready to implode in game 7. Long at-bats with lots of foul balls, counts being worked, Indians hitters looking for and getting their pitches. He did not look good in any at-bat prior to giving up the homer. Even if Davis doesn't go yard, I still expect a few more hits before Maddon is forced to go to the pen again. That goes back to Game 6. Hard to question putting your best guy on the mound in any elimination game, but damn, a 5 and later 7 run lead? You can't let Wood, Strop, Edwards or Rondon get at least a couple of those?

    And yeah, putting in Lester during an in progress inning (with a guy on, no less) was a bad move. Have a reliever come on for that last out and trot out Lester to start the next, or let Hendricks pitch it out. I also was not a fan of taking out Lester when he did either, and certainly not expecting Chapman to get at minimum 4 outs after the workload he had endured.
     
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  19. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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  20. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I'm a bit scared of what the uniform changes via Under Armor will be as well, but I think that some teams will stand fast and not make major changes.

    I do think that the fan gear they manufacture will be the same total garbage that they usually make. Not looking forward.
     
  21. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    It's not like they can say no or refuse to having the logo on the front of the jersey if the MLB agrees to the deal. I also don't think you're going to see a huge logo on the front, it's probably going to be in the same place the Majestic logo is.

    Under Armor isn't going to change the looks of team jerseys, i.e. instead of the classic Cub logo on the front of the Cub jersey it's going to spell out C-U-B-S across the front instead.. They might just be made by different cotton type materials.

    I think you guys are worrying too much.
     
  22. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    If I'm not mistaken they pay money to majestic not to have their logo on their uniform. Little detail like the under armour logo on the front of the uniforms will look terrible on so many classic designs, imo. And that's my point, majestic logo is in the side, MLB got extra money from under armour so that their logo will be on the front, not the sleeves


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  23. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Eh either way I can't get too worked up over a logo being on a uniform.
     
  24. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    What do you guys think of your team's moves so far this offseason? Redsox fans like the Chris Sale trade?

    Cubs just traded OF Jorge Soler to the Royals for CP Wade Davis, one for one. I like the move, even though its short term, with Davis in the last year of his deal. Soler has played well when he's gotten onto the field, but has only played 211 games in three seasons. His 162 game average is 21 HR and 75 RBI, with a .328 OBP, and he's only 24, so I hope he can grow and play well with KC. The Cubs have a ton of guys in the OF though, so it was easy to choose him to move away.

    The offensive core will be around for a long time for the Cubs, but the pitching won't. We're likely going to need at least two, and maybe three new SP after 2017, so making one more big run at it while Arrieta and Lackey are still here, along with 7th inning RP Pedro Strop, is the right move. I had hoped to use Soler as bait for a controllable SP, but I'm fine with this.
     
  25. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Cubs getting Wade Davis for Soler is a steal for the Cubs. Soler's swing and approach just doesn't play long term in the big leagues.
     
  26. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Well, if Davis were under contract for as long as Soler is, I may agree. He's a one year rental coming off some injuries for a guy who's under cheap control for 4 more years though, and will be 25 next year. Right now, it looks unlikely that the Cubs would extend Davis after 2017, because if he pitches as well as they hope, he'll be looking for the same cash that the top closers are getting this year.
     
  27. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I love and hate the Sale trade if that makes sense. The guy is a top 10, possibly top 5 MLB pitcher and the Sox have the best or 2nd best rotation in the AL and now have SP depth to make a few other deals. His contract is also insanely good. But Sale's delivery scares the hell out of me and I worry about his health. But I guess even the pitchers with the "best" deliverys get hurt and Sale has never been hurt before so maybe he's a freak like that.

    I hate giving up Moncada and Kopech but with prospects there are never sure things and part of the problem with the Sox in past years has been hanging on to those prospects only to see their value drop. Moncada and Kopech both have some red flags so we'll see. It's possible that this trade could work out for both clubs ala the Beckett/Lowell for Hanley/Anibal deal.

    I don't like the Cubs deal for Davis. I would think they could have gotten more value for Soler than one year of Davis that has had 2 straight years of forearm issues. It's kind of strange seeing Theo deal prospects and young players for rentals. Maybe he knows more about those guys than the other teams do perhaps but it's never been his MO.
     
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  28. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    There isn't a 2017 thread yet, so I'll post this here. Can any Marlins fans tell me about the prospect they gave to my Reds in exchange for Dan Straily? I saw it was pitchers Luis Castillo, Austin Brice and OF Isaiah White. A little disappointed the Reds moved Straily, but I think that was more to do with avoiding paying him big money in the short-term; the Reds are in FULL rebuild mode. Straily was the Reds most consistent pitcher last year, which was a nice surprise as he was a waiver pick-up. The only negative with him was that he gives up the HR quite a bit. I think he was at or near the top of the league in HR allowed, though pitching in Great American Ballpark certainly doesn't help matters (it's a damn launching pad, especially in the humid summer months). Sounds like Castillo is a solid prospect and White may be a long-term option for replacing Billy Hamilton.
     
  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Im not sure about the Marlins prospect, but Strailey has an interesting brief history with the Cubs.

    -When the Cubs traded Jeff Samardzija to the A's a few years ago, they got back Addison Russell, Jason Hammel, OF prospect Billy McKinney, and as a deep throw in, Dan Strailey.

    -Strailey sucked with the Cubs, putting up an ERA over 11, but they were able to trade him, along with Luis Valbuena, to the Astros for Dexter Fowler. Then, they traded McKinney as a throw in for Chapman, and all four players they got from the A's end up helping them win the WS last season. :thankyou:
     
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  30. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Castillo is listed on some sites as being the Marlins 2nd best prospect. It's a good trade for the Reds IMO as they are rebuilding. No idea why you give a good prospect for a #4 starter
     
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  31. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Yordano Ventura died in an automobile accident in dominican republic
     
  32. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    So did Andy Marte. Not a good day for baseball. Ventura was kind of a punk but he wasn't all bad as he did pay tribute to Oscar Tavares during the 2014 WS when he had Tavares' initials on his cap. Certainly wouldn't wish this on him. RIP both of them.
     
  33. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    The only thing I can think of is that the Marlins may see Straily as still developing...that may hold a little water. He was the Reds most consistent starter last year, IMO, though DeSclafani had better stuff if spurts.

    Now, if only the Reds could figure out a way to get rid of Phillips and Cozart, they could full "rebuild". It's disgusting to me that Dilson Herrera is probably going to start this year in AAA unless there's an injury. I'd also like Peraza to be the full-time shortstop instead of the super-utility guy.
     
  34. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Agreed, one of the worst things as a sports fan is the "delayed rebuild" scenario. I go through that constantly with the Knicks and previously the Mets. Brandon Phillips hasn't been good in a while and Cozart shouldn't be that hard to find a taker for if the asking price is reasonable. Herrera was just about ready last year but the mets are pretty loaded at 2B with Walker, Flores, Reyes all being able to play there and guys like TJ Rivera and Asdrubal Cabrera able to play there as needed.
     
  35. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    There's been a rumor floating around locally that the Reds botched a trade of Cozart to the Mariners last year at the deadline because they couldn't "multi-task" and complete both the Jay Bruce trade and trading Cozart at the same time. Not really sure what went down there, but I think a contender who needs a defensive shortstop with occasional stretches of good offense may get the Reds something for him. Phillips I think is a lost cause; both are free agents after this season, but it's frustrating that the Reds couldn't get anything in return for them as of yet.

    Lot of local rumors that Bob Castellini, the owner, wouldn't go along with Walt Jocketty in trying to unload a lot of guys back in 2013-14. The Votto deal is an anchor, but he's still a tremendous player. But the deals they gave to Bruce (never reached potential), Phillips (past potential when he got the deal), Bailey (injuries, alcohol), and Mesoraco (injuries) have really weighed them down.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  36. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Loria has a 1.6 billion offer on the table.. sell please
     
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  37. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Loria has agreed to sell.
     
  38. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    You can expect the Trump's attending Marlins games... ivanka's father and law is part of the group purchasing the Marlins
     
  39. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Getting bad owners out of the sport is good for MLB as a whole. Hopefully, whoever starting running the Marlins is commited to doing their best to put a good team on the field.
     
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  40. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Heyman saying Kushner not part of the potential group.

     

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