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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, May 2, 2019.
Who will/should start at QB for Miami this year, and how soon and under what conditions?
I believe Fitz should start on day one of the regular season. Much like Marino's rookie year and Mayfield last season, let Rosen sit and learn with no pressure. By game 4 or 5 when and if Fitz falters, the kid will be chomping at the bit to come in and play. It worked for Marino, it worked for Mayfield. Tannehill may have developed completely differently if he wasn't rushed into the spotlight behind such a weak line. As it was, he never had much of an opportunity to develop any confidence. Philbin was an idiot.
You have to evaluate Rosen.
Priority #1 going into 2020 is the selection of a QB. If by some chance you don't have to do that, then great.
And if Rosen is truly bad and loses you a lot of games...well, that's great, too!
Rosen absolutely has to start asap.
Fitzpatrick shouldn't be on the roster. We have to see if Rosen can be the real deal from day 1. If Rosen stinks then they can look at a QB in the 2020 draft. There is no point in having Fitzpatrick on this team.
Quite simply it should be Rosen or bust.
Nobody wants to see this out there.
If Rosen is healthy, and looks the way almost everyone expects him to in camp, then I think that the only reason he doesn't start Week 1 would be that the team is really worried about the OL and how the rest of the offense is coming together. If Flores, Oshae and the others look at it and are worried its going to be a disaster, then let Fitz deal with that as the veteran for the first few weeks to a month. Then once things are a little better with a few games in, put Rosen in.
For Rosen to be successful, Fitzpatrick has to start. That dude has a deal with the devil.
Not even a contest. Rosen will start
I dont think Rosen is up to par with the speed of the game, and I don't think camp or preseason is going to accomplish that, we also have to take into account he’s learning yet again another new scheme, which will take your speed down a notch, we have an early bye this year, I think I would let him start after the bye..
Thats a good thought, until Fitzpatrick has Miami at 2-2 and throws 10 TDs to 3 INTs in the first 4 games. Now all the sudden starting him has been an awful idea. You can not leave it to chance. We have to see what Rosen is over the season. If he can start week 5, he can start week 1 and work through the lumps
This is also my opinion.
He's had an entire season under his belt. We have 16 games to determine if he is worth passing on a QB next year. I dont want us passing on a single one of those 16 opportunities.
Nightmare scenario. I don't want to see any "Is Fitzpatrick the answer?! / Playoffs?!" threads because you know there will be. I don't want our fans to be the latest fooled by the "Fitzmagic" fraud.
Rosen or bust.
It depends on training camp and preseason. One might grasp the playbook sooner than the other. I think you have to see what you have in both and do the evaluation 1st.
You guys think they'll keep Fitz around?
They should cut him right now. He is cursed!
Pushing Rosen to start day 1 is the equivalent of what the Dolphins did to Chad Henne. He wasn’t ready and if he had the development time, he MIGHT have been a damned fine quarterback.
Miami essentially stole a first round draft pick quarterback. Now, if it’s an investment, then take the time to develop and make sure he’s ready...like Marino, like Mayfield. If he’s just an experiment you plan on throwing to the wolves regardless of whether or not he is ready, then the trade was as stupid as a football bat
Saying we 'stole' a first round QB is a little much. We were the highest bidder on the market, his worth is what the market says it is.
And Henne would never have been good. The sit and wait theory has so many holes in it. Unless speaking about QBs that were injured due to terrible OL.
If one thing should have been made clear last year is it helps to have your rookie QB ride the pine. If you can, his whole 1st season. (See Patrick Mahomes). That's the way it used to be done all the time. This idea of rushing a young QB onto the field game 1 just because you drafted him high is a mistake. Marino didn't even start til later in his 1st season. He did mop up duty for a few games and slowly worked up his playing time til you couldn't justify keeping him on the bench any longer. I am fully aware that Rosen is in his 2nd season but I would much rather they treat him like Marino, Mop up duty for a few games and then start him. Throwing him or any other young QB to the wolves is no way to find out how good he is going to be. I'd say there is a far greater chance you set him up for failure if you do that. We all KNOW how bad this offensive line is going to be so why not give them some time to jell as well.
He has to start this year and get as much playing time as possible in, we have to know when the season is over if this guy is going to be the guy. But we don't HAVE to rush him out on the field in the 1st game as a starter. That just does not make any sense to me. Further you can't tell me that it's going to make some tremendous difference in his evaluation if he only starts 10 games instead of all 16.
Have some patience. We'll see our shiny new toy soon enough.
The ONLY reason to keep and allow Fitz say, 2-3 starts at the beginning of the season is to let a new look OL gel a bit before throwing Rosen in.
Rosen was not brought in to sit on the bench, he was brought in to play and be evaluated.
Josh Rosen is not going to get better sitting on the bench. There's not a single player who would prefer to ride the pine as he prepared. You always want game reps.
You can put him there after 2 weeks or after 10 weeks or start him right away and you're getting the same guy in that first start.
I'd start him all 16 games and weight my analysis based on who he looked like during weeks 9-17.
Tom Brady doesn't always look like Tom Brady in September but that doesn't mean the Patriots hold him back either. The longer you hold Rosen out, the longer it'll take before he gets acclimated and starts looking normal.
You're trying to see what his "normal" is and that'll take time...the more of it he has, the better.
You're only hurting him if (A) you expect greatness in September which is totally unrealistic or (B) you think the O-line sucks out loud in which case it doesn't matter because it'll be as bad or worse later in the year.
Asking him to demonstrate what he can do while cutting back the reps he has does nothing to help him.
So long as he wants to start...he starts.
Big boy talk - I am going to tell you something. There is a ton of pressure on Rosen. When the talking heads say that the what happened to Rosen this year could happen again in 2020, they aren't joking.
Second point - We aren't winning the Super Bowl this year.
Just knowing those two things, we need to make the organizational decision to give Rosen every available opportunity to be successful, and we need as big of a sample size as possible to evaluate Rosen as possible. I would give him an overwhelming majority of the first team snaps in camp, start him in week 1, with the ultimate goal of him having a solid 5 game stretch at the end of the season. To be honest, I am not as concerned with the first 5 games as I am with the last 5 games.
Third big boy point - In no way, shape, or form is Rosen in the same situation as Mayfield and Marino. It is the worst kept secret that Phins' front office is infatuated with Tua. It might not be fair or just, but that is the reality of the situation. Rosen is going to have to show something this year, or I suspect he will be replaced.
Here is the bigger picture. It just isn't Rosen. O'Shea and Flores are learning on the job. They, like Rosen, are going to have to adjust on the fly. The best way to scheme around Rosen is to have film on Rosen. The only way to have film on Rosen is to play him. I know guys on this board are going to quote his season stats. Like I said before, I am going to completely ignore and write off early failures. Honestly, I don't care if he throws 10 INTs in the first three games. I will give him a pass. I just wanna see how the last 5 games look. I am going to watch the o-line play. I know that it currently is less than ideal, but I don't know how much of an excuse he is going to get.
His chance isn't ideal, but he is getting a chance, and in the NFL, that is more than a lot of guys will get.
Our whole offensive line has to learn to play together with multiple new starters. I have zero problems letting them play a few games and letting Rosen come in after the bye week in week 5. 12 games is plenty of time to judge Rosen (assuming he stays healthy and plays all 12 games). Now, if the Oline is playing well in preseason to give us confidence that Rosen won't get killed week 1, I'm fine with him starting, but I'd let the Oline dictate when to start the kid
Wonderlic scores are pretty meaningless. No one even really can say how they relate to actual football smarts. By all accounts isn't Rosen quite intelligent? I just don't see any reason to keep Fitz.
you keep Fitz because he keeps you competitive and right now anyone behind Fitz and Rosen is garbage. The coach wants the players playing their hearts out. Keeping Fitz - whether he's starter or backup sends a message (or more like cutting him sends a negative message)
Well we disagree on that.
Yeah, Fitz was a calculated gamble, I think.
They had to go into the draft looking like they weren't totally backed into getting a QB. That gave them some leverage with Arizona as well as a practical option--not that they care about winning the few games Fitz would win, but it does have superficial value, I'd agree.
Trading for Rosen was obviously better than not doing so given the cost, but now they're stuck having paid for that insurance policy.
So if you don't come out saying "Rosen is our guy!" then you are obliged to keep Fitz so you can make a case that Rosen "has to compete" when we all know that he's clearly the guy.
I think they wanted to say that because (A) it paints a good image but also (B) you definitely do indeed want Rosen coming in feeling like he's just another guy who has to prove himself. That's healthy for him.
Doing otherwise, handing him the title of Franchise-Hero, would either inflate his attitude or just apply unnecessary pressure, neither of which you want to do.
But in an ideal world, Fitz magically retires the night before the season begins or something.
I will say, now that Rosen is around, I would like to have Fitz gone. I want no part of his ability to win a handful of games that might undermine the Dolphins 2020 draft position. That obviously does NOTHING for anyone.
I hope you realize that the Dolphins don't want to be competitive with a 37 year old QB. They aren't winning the super bowl this season.
He was the only option a month ago.
Not anymore. Rosen has played in the league and he's 16 years younger and was a top 10 draft pick in this league. Only a fool would have him on the bench week 1 for a team trying to find their future QB.
i'd say fitz starts weeks 1-4 (4 [playoff teams) then the bye week happens and we switch to Rosen since fitz is ineffective this gives time for the OL to sort out and save some hits on Rosen. While still giving him a lot of time to evaluate what we want to do with him.
Rosen's competition isn't Fitz, it's Tua (or Fromm, or Herbert, or whomever). We aren't in position where a decent caliber of backup is needed. If we can trade him for a pick, do it. If not, then sure, let him hang around.
If our offensive line is that bad, 4 weeks isnt going to fix it.
Let's say you sit him 4 games. That means he usnt getting starter reps in practice every week. That means he is going to need a couple weeks just to get into rhythm with the team. Now it's not just 4 weeks we wasted, its 6 to 8 weeks.
While I agree that Fitz is now expendable, we HAVE TO have a competent backup and he fits that role perfectly for short spurts of time. I do not agree that trading him is the smart move unless there's another young gun out there you're ready to groom for 2019 only.
Ruddock is only 26 and three years out of college, but if we were going to go that route I'd rather see them bring back Fales to be honest. I think Ruddock is just camp competition and will be out the door before the season starts.
Maybe they got rid of Falk because of the affection for Rudock..
I think that I see one way Fitz is expendable in 2019. Lets say that Rosen wins the starting job from the get go, and looks really good. But by mid season the team still has a really bad record (1-7, 2-6) due to the defense and/or just losing a bunch of close games.
At that point, if the Rosen question is mostly answered and another team is offering something of value for Fitz because they're a playoff contender and need a band aid QB, then I think the team pulls the trigger. They'd be in a position where they're going to start Rosen the rest of the way as long as he's healthy, and if he does get injured, then winning games isn't the priority any more for the rest of 2019 anyways.
Otherwise, I say its possible Fitz is still here even in 2020. We have a boatload of cap space, Rosen is cheap, and if the two develop a good relationship and Fitz can accept the backup and mentor role, then no real need to move on ASAP.
my point wasn't how horrible they are, my point is that if they have potential to improve, it may take a few games for them to learn how to play together. So, yes, 4 weeks may not fix it but certainly can improve their play together.
It could also not improve at all in which case we accomplish nothing. Defenses get those weeks to get and come together too. You're likely going to be seeing the most basic defensive calls the first few weeks with very little complexity thrown at you.
I dont personally see any advantages to sitting him but it isnt my call.
I'm on the fence with benching Rosen to start the year. Not really for it, but not totally discounting the value of it either. Its a worthy point that Baltimore, New England, Dallas and LA have rough defenses to deal with, and it could be like throwing him into the fire. The schedule after that point features a lot more teams that are likely to be poor to mediocre than that first month. Nothing is a guarantee, but it has its logic.
I'm the same. Ideally I'd like him to start the season...if he struggles, fine, it's expected, but you'd think that if he's the guy, that we'd see improvement by the end of the season vs the beginning.
Exactly...I dont expect him to come set the world on fire. I want to judge him by 4 and 6 week chunks more or less where you can see improvement or regression as the season passes.
If you're a management team, you go into this Rosen 1 year evaluation as glass half full attitude - which IMO means giving him a better chance to succeed so we can properly evaluate him. It's a judgement call. but to just make a blanket statement without context of the pieces around Rosen is the wrong approach
If the Oline is playing like they still need time to gel, then I sit Rosen til the bye week.
If they are playing up to their potential, you throw Rosen in.
If they are hot garbage and unlikely to improve, I throw Rosen in.