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3 non-playoff teams that will make the leap in '08

Discussion in 'AFC East Rivals' started by ATVZ400, Jul 16, 2008.

  1. ATVZ400

    ATVZ400 Senior Member

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    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/michael_lombardi/07/16/frankly.football/index.html

     
  2. 124

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    New York Jets.
    Cleveland Browns.

    and if they get Brett Favre,
    Baltimore Ravens.

    if not,
    Carolina Panthers.
     
  3. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Don't forget St. Louis! My pick.
     
  4. 124

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    Arizona, like Buffalo, has been everybody's "surprise pick" for about four or five years in a row now. Until they prove it, I'm done thinking its possible.

    Cincinnati, eh, I don't know. They have a great offense, minus the declining running game, but their defense is non-exsistent. You can't win in the AFC North without a good Defense. Pittsburgh and Baltimore will run all over you, scoring points and running out the clock, and Cleveland will put up 56 on you through the air with a mixture of Jamal Lewis.
     
  5. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like the Cincinnati pick. I dunno, I just have a feeling they'll get it together this year and have a good shot.

    I just don't like the Browns. I just don't think that David Anderson will play as lights out as he did last year. I don't think Jamal Lewis will be effective as lasty year and I still believe that defense will struggle. Their DB's are weak and Shaun Rogers has been an underachiever his whole career.

    If I had to pick 3 teams from each conference I'd say...

    Bengals
    Bills
    Broncos

    Eagles
    Vikings
    Saints
     
  6. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Why are people so high on Denver? They have a mediocre QB, one mediocre WR and Selvin Young who looked good at times, but wasnt lights out. Not to mention an underachieving D. Aside from OL, I don't get it.
     
  7. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I actually think they will have a bad season. Me and Aqua discussed this a while ago. I see them winning 6 to 7 games tops. I don't think Cutler is a mediocre QB. I actually think he is a very good QB for a young one. Last season, he played with Diabetes and did not know it until after the season. He was losing arm strength and weight by day according to him.

    Where's the mediocre WR ? Brandon Marshall? You mean the guy who put up 102 grabs last year, 1300 yards, 7 TD's and basically outplayed our whole receiving core?

    Their RB situation I think will be by committee. They don't have a top back but they have multiple good ones. One guy I would look out for is Ryan Torain who played for ASU. Rookie and could be a player for them in their system.

    Their D was poor and they didn't do much to fix up the run this off-season. However, Jim Bates stepped down in January and they have a new guy running it. I am not completely sure who it is but they can only go up as they were very bad last year.
     
  8. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I'm not real high on Cutler. I can see the diabetes as a very sound explanation for last year tho so who knows. Marshall just seems like a product of a stellar OL, no other WR, and good RBs. I was just never a fan of his from what Ive seen. To be fair thats not much bc I live in NY and almost never see him.

    I think Selvin Young should have a shot at taking that job tho. Either way, I agree with you guys that they won't win many games.
     
  9. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I like Cutler a lot. He has a lot of arm strength and pretty good accuracy. Many compared him to Favre coming out and still do.

    I think Marshall is a big talent. He's a big guy whose also powerful and has good hands. I think every player in the league that is successful benefits from a supporting cast, if he didn't, he wouldn't be successful imo.

    Yeah, the job is up in the air. The problem with Young is that he can't carry the ball 20 times a game and that is their fear. They need a guy who can do that. I'm not sure if Torain can. He had a few injuries at ASU so his health could be questioned. They signed Pittman from Tampa Bay this off-season.
     
  10. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Cutler is so mediocre that a bad year for him is 3500 yards passing? That's quite the ringing endorsement.
     
  11. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    amazing what a good OL and competent RB will do for you.
     
  12. 124

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    Denver will be relying on Selvin Young, and although they think they can put any Running Back back there and be successful, there running game has been declining over the years.

    At receiver they have Brandon Marshall and thats it. Marshall is thought to be the "next T.O." but he hasn't shown anything near what T.O. has done. What has Marshall done thats so great? I want to see him stay out of trouble off the field (Wrestling with your brother my ***) and show up on the field.
     
  13. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    No they won't. They won't be relying on one back to get the job done.

    First, Brandon Marshall has been in the league only two years compared to Owens' twelve so to say he hasn't shown anything isn't exactly fair.

    Second, he put up 21 more receptions than T.O. last year and only 30 yards less receiving than Owens. Although, he did only have 7 touchdowns compared to T.O.'s 14, he put up numbers that were very similar to Owens' and he will probably get better as he gets more experience.

    He does need to stay out of trouble off the field but on the field, he shows up and there's no denying it.
     
  14. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Marshall is a headcase. I dont like Denver, always overrated, and Shanahan is one of the most overrated coaches in the game right now. It took him how long to get the SB with John Elway? And even then it took Terrell Davis having some freakish years to barely squeek by Green Bay. Since those 2 years, they havent done squat.
    The Bills? LOL. Every year. I wouldnt be surprised to see them in the playoffs, but so often they dissapoint, just like the cards, though I like them a bit better. The other team like that is the Eagles, though they seem the most dangerous of the 3.
     
  15. 124

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    Exactly my point. He put up 21 more receptions in an offense that (its too late for me to bother to look) passed the ball more and also had worse options around him than Owens had. Tony Romo could throw it to Jason Witten, Julius Jones, Marion Barber and Patrick Clayton. Who was Cutler going to go to? Brandon Stokley? Seriously?

    In the end, yes he had solid numbers, but lets see him do it consistently before we make him out to be something he's not yet.
     
  16. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Tony Romo threw 53 more passes than Cutler. It's not his fault that the supporting cast was weaker. When Marshall was asked to deliver, he did. Marshall put up big numbers against teams with strong secondaries such as the Bears (97 yards) and Jags (133 yards). Brandon Stokley was actually productive last year, almost topping 650 yards.

    He's been in the league only two years. The reason he is compared to Owens is because of his size, strength and him being a headcase like Owens.
     
  17. 124

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    Strong secondaries? Chicago's secondary is over-rated and once again was missing their All-Pro Safety. Jacksonville's secondary is over-rated as well. After Rasehan Mathis, who do they have? Gerald Sensabaugh? They're nice players who look better because of the front seven.

    T.O. never wrestled like his brother like a little child at what? 24? 25 years old? When he makes millions of $$$'s a year.
     
  18. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    When Broncos played versus the Jaguars, Rashean Mathis was on him. Mathis is an all-pro Corner. I think he is a VERY good player and Marshall absolutely tore him up. Chicago still has good Cornerbacks in Charles Tillman and Nathan Vasher. I think those are also good Corners and Marshall put numbers up on them.

    Ok. Your point? He's still a headcase on the field and off the field as is Marshall. Like I said, they are compared because of their attitudes, size and strengths.
     
  19. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If the Broncos ever fired Mike Shannahan, which won't happen, I'd consider dumping Tony Sparano for him. The Broncos have been a model of consistency since Shannahan took over that team.

    Does it really matter who the Broncos RB is? Honestly, there scheme allows them to be able to produce 1,000 yard running backs with ease.

    I think their defense will be better. Another year for their rookie guys up front, another year for their LB's to get it together and their DB's will step up after the poor year last year.

    I could see them anywhere from 7-9 wins and potential playoff berth.
     
  20. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Shanahan was a product of John Elway, totally overrated as a coach and thinks way to highly of himself and his abilities as both a coach and GM. Would not want him here at all.
     
  21. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's just not true. Maybe, he's overrated as a GM. I just think the whole "buy the groceries..." tactic with Head Coaches is overrated and I like the disection of a HC and a GM.

    However, his abilities as a H.C. are very good. Last year was his only his 2nd losing season since Elway had retired (11 seasons). Plus, he's been to the playoffs 4 of those years including an AFC Conference Championship.

    99: 6-10
    00: 11-5
    01: 8-8
    02: 9-7
    03: 10-6
    04: 10-6
    05: 13-3
    06: 9-7
    07: 7-9

    That's pretty solid since Elway and he's done with QB's like Brian Griese, Bubby Brister, and Jake Plummer. Plus, you can't discount the whole "product of Elway" either. Dan Reeves never won the Super Bowl with Elway, Shanahan did. Not to mention he did it against a heavily favored Brett Favre-lead Green Bay Packers.

    He's one of the best coaches in the NFL, IMO. There is a reason why he's the longest tenured H.C. with one team.
     
  22. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    He's not. Its Jeff Fisher with Tennessee.

    Fisher: 1994-present
    Shanahan - 1995-present
     
  23. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    OK, you're right. Then he is the 2nd longest tenured HC with one team. It doesn't diminish the argument any less. There is a reason why Denver doesn't let him go.
     
  24. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I agree that it doesn't diminish the argument. I like him as a coach and I think he is a good one. I was just pointing it out. :up:
     
    rdhstlr23 likes this.
  25. MelbournePhin

    MelbournePhin New Member

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    hey mr. know it all, you ever heard of reggie nelson??
     
  26. 124

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    Brian Williams? Are you serious? A Top 5-6 Combination? Is that why they signed Drayton Florence to replace him?


    Here's some better pairings than Jacksonville's previous of Mathis & B.Williams:

    Asomugha & Hall
    Harris & Woodson
    Cromartie & Jammer
    McAlister & Rolle
    Bly & Bailey
    Samuel & Sheppard
    Gamble & Lucas
    Trufant & Jennings

    You could probably throw in Barber & Buchanon, Springs & Rogers and Harper & Finnegan (in Jacksonville's division - Tennessee) too as solid arguments. There's a reason the Jags signed up Florence to START. They know they made a mistake on him and overpaid him big time to leave Minnesota.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  27. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think they're a Top 5 Combo, but I think the 3 CBs (Mathis, Florence, Williams) make up a very formidable 3-some, especially in Nickel situations.
     
  28. 124

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    Agreed. Even the Florence & Mathis combination makes the Top 10, but definitely no Williams-Mathis.

    In the end, it's not going to matter because the Jaguars are a team based on running the ball, game managing at the QB position and their front seven on defense. Teams do not have to pass against them because they rarely will get that 17-0 lead on you. For the most part it will be a ball controlled game with teams trying to run on the Jaguars to waste time so they don't have to face Jones-Drew and or Taylor.
     

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