This is a great post, and also kind of magnifies another point some people seem to be missing here - good and great QBs also elevate the talent around them, as much as the talent around them elevates them. It goes both ways, not just one. The fact is that Fitz, who is not a franchise QB, made these same players look much better. I get that he's a vet. But at no time at all did Tua ever elevate any of these guys or their play by showing flashes of being elite. We all agree we need better playmakers, but why is there no blame on Tua for not being elite enough to make the players around him look better? Bringing in more talent to a QB that isn't going to elevate those players, will result in just mediocrity, akin to Fiedler, and we want championships. I mean, aside from a few plays, Gesicki virtually disappeared with Tua in the game...and remember that missed TD pass when Tua handed it off rather than throw to Shaheen? Etc etc. Tua missed many opportunities to shine and to elevate those around him.
San Diego also has weapons that far exceed ours, and despite having talented offense and defense he didn't lead them to wins. He also had some clunkers as well, though more good games certainly.
What was your point on your response to me? Are you saying that Herbert did better statistically because he was on a team with better weapons. If so I think we can agree.
He wasn't. But they were very similar in style, preferring a dump pass to a long one, always checking down.
I get where you're going but it doesn't really matter. I'm not saying you can't be down on Tua and think he isn't the answer, but don't base it on draft position. That's just silly.
Jeezus, dude, we just lost by THIRTY FREAKING POINTS in a game that would have put us in the playoffs. How the hell did you think that was going to make a fun off-season?
Saying "at no time ever" is false. The Arizona game he absolutely did for one. Also saying that "he missed opportunities"... Well duh, he's a rookie.
No, we wanted him to look better than the other rookie QBs taken and he didn't. Not by a HUGE margin.
Because despite that loss we still outperformed expectations and have a butt load of cap space and draft picks insanely including the Texans morphing into a bottom feeder. Plus hopefully a full, real offseason depending on vaccine rollouts, for the leagues youngest team.
Don't play games. We are basing it on all the hype, which resulted in him going #5 overall. Tua has not lived up to it even a little bit, while Burrow met it, and Herbert exceeded it. You are still basing your allegiance to Tua on that same hype, bc there isn't much from this actual season and his actual plays to base it on, other than said hype.
Yeah we did. No he didn't. Yes thats concerning. No that doesn't immediately mean we need to pick another QB until one immediately has a probowl level of performance in year one.
That's all fine and dandy, but part of coaching is finding players who don't give up when they're down and the game's out of reach. Those players gave up and what they did threw a shadow over what Flores had built up through the rest of the season. It's a sour taste in every fan's mouth and it's a memory that won't fade soon, very reminiscent of the playoff loss to the Jags 63-7.
So because he didn't immediately live up to media hype we should replace him. Got it. That's definitely a good way to run a team.
It means when you have a third overall pick, which we haven't had in a long time, we need to take a shot if a star-level QB is available.
Negative. Seattle had Hasselback for like 6-8 years till 2011, took travaris jackson on free agent pick up that year (had to Google that), then drafted Wilson 2012 75th!!! overall and have had him since. Nothing like Seattle. You want to take a qb with our 50th pick this year, you'll get no argument outta me. If anything we are taking a similar trajectory as Seattle to this point. Only difference really is Wilson had Beastmode to lean on.
Yeah sure why not. We definitely should be in the playoffs a year removed from a total teardown. Very real timetable.
I never said to fire Flores. I said I was disappointed with their attitude in the game and it wasn't going to make for a fun offseason. Stop trying to put words on my keyboard.
If you let one loss define this offseason that's you choosing to be a sourpuss. No argument that it was a flat out bad game, but again, this team has the ability to markedly improve this offseason in multiple ways. You want teams that will have rough off seasons look at somewhere like Detroit that gets to rebuild from the Quinn\Patricia garbage with 5 draft picks and little cap space and an aging, middling injury prone QB. Frankly, it's going to be difficult to go back to "normal" in 2022. This game definitely should leave a bad taste for a few days, but don't let it define the whole offseason and be miserable while we build.
This. You don't waste the rare opportunity when you have such a high pick -if there is a QB there who seems to be franchise level. We won't EVER get a pick that high again with Flores coaching (unless you gut the team once again), he is good enough to get even a bad team 6-8 wins each year. Only finding another sucker trade like Houston gave us would give Miami the chance to pick another QB in the top five, but I don't see that happening again.
Here is the clear difference. You have written off Tua after 10 games. I have not. I'm willing to give him a full season with a full compliment of offensive weapons.
So they draft a QB at 3, and the Dolphins are in the exact same position a year from now, a rookie QB with no weapons. This offense needs Chase/Smith. Picking one of the second tier options at 18 doesn’t really move the needle. Get Tua a game breaker at WR and RB (plus a new OC) and I guarantee you this offense looks different.
I will say the one thing that makes it somewhat possible is the lack of a defensive stud. There is no Chase Young, Nick Chubb, Von Miller in this draft. If they truly feel the value in Zack Wilson is higher than, say Sewell or Chase, or in trading back, then OK. But at that point, your probably looking to move Tua now rather than let him compete Ala Josh Rosen. I don't know if Wilson is that special of a player. Lawrence and Fields imo are, but I don't see them not going 1-2. Whether the Jests take one or trade out for a team that will, they are the two best.
Minkah fitzpatrick, Reshad Jones, obviously. Many think Parker should have gotten the nod last year. Landry before Gase ran him off.
"Name a probowl player except not this probowl player, he doesn't count!" Anyway, whatever your feelings, objective reality is that he's 100% safe. He was told to tear down and rebuild this roster and we ended up with a 10 win season In YEAR 2 and STILL have a dragons hoard of draft pick and a huge chunk of cap to spend. You do NOT get fired for that broseph.
He’s been him GM since 16. Landry, Parker and Jones weren’t his picks. Minkah isn’t on this team And clearly has character issues.
That makes no sense in this context. Russel Wilson has been to two Superbowls and 8 Pro Bowls. He's probably going to be a Hall of Famer assuming injury doesn't cut his career short. You see THAT in Tua's future? Be freaking honest.
