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A BIT OF QB IRONY FOR YA!!! Fun stuff!!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ToddsPhins, Oct 7, 2010.

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  1. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No need for personal attacks.. We all want the same thing.. I happen to think he is way off base for calling Henne's benching, but heck if someone like Parcells thinks Pennington provides a great chance this year then we shouldn't resort to name calling... Just my 2 cents...
    :up:

    Now if Schmool said bring back Beck or claimed that if we had Ginn we would be 4-0, then I'd join you in calling him an idiot :D
     
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  2. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Of course it would be YOU who would be the one taken to the shed! :yes: This is in NO SHAPE OR FORM a comparison to Brady. The only thing worthless is the time I'm taking to respond to your ridiculous answer that lacks any understanding of the stages of development that MOST QBs go through before they become great (or dissolve).

    John Beck? That's a friggin laugh!!!!!! The guy started 4 games for us and had a combined 10 INTs and fumbles. He showed zero signs of real promise. Henne with 6 concussions, a broken pinky, tendonitis and a hangover is still more talented than Beck could dream of.
     
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  3. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    There's a point where you just become so wrapped up in your opinion that you don't even bother to fully understand what someone has said to you and you've clearly passed it.
     
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  4. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've given him plenty of credit.

    I have never said that Henne sucks, is a bust, or should be benched. I have consistently said that right now I think he is ok, he is average and that I am waiting to see signs of a future great QB. Maybe you've seen it already. If you have, great, but I am reserving judgment
     
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  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    That's true, you haven't. However if you look at just this thread alone, you were poster #3 and it really came across as you did misunderstand the point of the thread. That got things going further considering it was frustration that started this thread to begin with.
     
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  6. finsincebirth

    finsincebirth Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Heres my question for schmol. You say Henne hasnt shown any flahes of greatness, well what does he havt to do to prove it? Throwing for 300 yards with 2 tds and 1 garbage int against the jets on sunday. Or what about throwing for 300 something yards 3tds and 0 ints against them last year. What about the 4th quarter comeback against the pats in Miami last year? The one where he hit a key 4th down conversion to keep the drive going. Or how about having something like 4 4th quarter comebacks in only a seasons worth of starts? To me those all speak of a potential to be great. You bring up people wanting John Beck to pan out get more time. In thatt situation there was just misplaced hope and Beck never showed any real ability in games. Henne has
     
  7. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know why I'm getting attacked here. I fully understand the arguments.

    All I've said consistently is that I haven't seen anything that makes me believe that henne is going to be more than "ok" or "good". That's all. Maybe he will be prove to "very good" or even "great" someday and that would be wonderful.

    Comparing his numbers to some of the all time greats is pointless since it is highly unlikely that he ever reaches those heights, which I don't think anyone disagrees with.

    So basically, saying "Brady was worse" at some point in his career doesn't mean anything.
     
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  8. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Count me in for believing that Henne can be very good..
    That makes one of us.. Anyone else?
     
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  9. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's played well against the Jets twice at home. Maybe the Jets are just a really good matchup for us, but yeah in those games he ahs been really good. The game against the Pats he also was good, but a Vontae interception in the endzone assisted matters there.

    I'm blanking on the 4th quarter comebacks outside of the first Jets game and NE. But he is still making alot of the same errors now as he did back then, and he hasn't seemed to develop anymore pocket presence. Like I said, I think he's been ok to good for the most part.
     
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  10. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I understood the thread Fin.

    All I was pointing out is that the circumstances of Brady becoming the Patriots QB were different and that he had firmly established himself as a good to great QB by midseason and then led the team to a SB win.
     
  11. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You must be watching him with blinders on then.. On Monday I saw a QB making his reads, throwing laser beams on target, using his RB's, and delivering the ball perfectly to receivers that were in stride.. He even seemed to have good pocket awareness and stepped away from pressure several times.. Outside of the two poor throws that resulted in INT's, I saw a QB that has improved significantly from when he first started here.
     
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  12. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fair enough. We have different opinions. Hopefully, you end up being right. There is no point to arguing anymore since we all want the same end result.
     
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  13. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    You mean..... just as Henne firmly established himself as the starter when Penny went down and there were no talks of returning to Penny even though we went to the playoffs with him the year before? Sounds familiar.

    I don't think Henne's God..... but I also don't think he deserves ANY harsh criticism right now. He's taking the same lumps on the field that virtually every great QB through history have taken. He deserves the benefit of the doubt while he's continuing to improve. Anything less is unreasonable and unfair. He needs less pressure on him....... not more. Feeling unreasonable expectations from all his fans is a great way to kill his psyche. Then we're back to the drawing board again and we would be fortunate to draft another QB of Henne's caliber.

    Heck, half the teams in the league would love to luck out by drafting a guy like Chad (1st round included)!!!!! Tell me that Jax wouldn't happily trade their #8 pick of Derrick Harvey for Henne right now. :wink2:
     
  14. finsincebirth

    finsincebirth Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He had the Jets the Pats and Bucs comebacks, and I cant remember the other but Im going off of what was said by the announcers in the Monday night game. Imo if youLre going to give the defense assists in wins, then you need to do the same for losses that took good games away from him. Also of course he`s going to make the same mistakes, he hasnt garnered enough experience to learn from them, and truly he will still always make mistakes. There are no perfect Qb`s they dont exist. Finally I think lack of pocket presence is attributted to a constant line turnover that is having isssues pass blocking. Even though Ive still seen some really good pocket presence throws
     
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  15. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fine. That's fair. Although I doubt Chad Henne reads or would even care about what's been written on this board.

    Like I've said a million times, I like the guy and hope he succeeds, I just want to see it on the field.
     
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  16. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I forgot about the bucs, but he played pretty average in that game overall against a bad team, but yeah, he got us the win in the 4th quarter
     
  17. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think there are 5 levels of QB play

    Elite
    These guys can make the team competitive all by themselves, and if the remaining components are at least average, they stand a chance of making the playoffs yearly

    - Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Favre

    Serviceable
    With an above average supporting cast, these guys can make their team playoff contenders yearly

    - Roethlisberger, Aaron Rogers, Romo

    Good enough for now
    The team is likely keeping an eye out for a franchise QB, because this guy isn't the one. However with an all star defense, or running game, you'll be a playoff team.

    - Pennington, Garrard,

    Uhm, have you played this position before?
    The kind of guy you are starting because you really have no one better, and are hoping to go 1-15 with so you can get a 1st rounder

    - Jamarcus Russell...

    And lastly

    Inexperienced QBs with potential
    The guys that will wow you one game, but break your heart next.

    - Henne, Sanchez, too lazy to list them all

    I don't think Henne will ever be elite, but I think he can be serviceable. I think that by the end of this season, that's where he'll end up. He may wow us every now and then, but we're never going to compare him to Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, or any of the other stellar QBs in the league.

    And you know what? That's good enough for me. There's always the chance we stumble upon someone in the draft that can be that guy, but for now I think Henne is enough to get us where we want to go.
     
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  18. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    Sorry but you cant say that when your bringing up anyone else's numbers, games what have you.

    If each person is there own person then there is no reason to bring up anyone else's numbers or whatever UNLESS you are comparing.

    Its like saying "The ocean is blue...and Your car is blue...see my point."

    "But I am not comparing your car's color to the ocean!"

    The best you can say is that in your personal opinion, this guy shows promise and potential. He should be given some more time to be able to develop it.

    That's it. Bceause the moment you bring up yadda yadda yadda someone else did this. You are comparing.

    Now my guess is that you are trying to imply that you are not saying that Chad Henne will become Tom Brady or Marino or whomever or start to play like them suddenly etc.

    But that is a double edged sword because, yeah although finding an Elite QB is almost impossible to find. The whole point of grooming a QB is so that you have the hope they become ELITE.

    So in that case its like your telling us that we should wait for him to develop...but not expect him to become elite...
     
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  19. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    This....I have been hard on Henne myself, like Ginn, like White, like I'm starting to get on Smith too...however nothing can be futher from the truth that because I am hard on them means I wish or want failure. I want nothing more than Henne to be the next Henne, and be his own man, leading this team deep into the playoffs. I will be the first to eat crow, when he does prove me wrong, what do I care?? Until that day I am not annointing him as others have already like this is a close case...I dont see it yet, doesnt mean it wont happen, but I need to see more...time will tell....

    However if by the end of this year, he does what he did last year, and this year so far...I will be disappointed...To me it is beyond stats, I am looking at fundamentals, and make-up, thats may concern with Henne...can he develop them sure....has he yet no, and in that area hasnt progressed much at all....reading defenses, looking guys off, taking a shotgun, when the pocket breaksdown running for it instead of force passes into triple coverage....When I start seeing this on a consistant basis etc...I will believe he is developing....time will tell...
     
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  20. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    well he is an average QB right now. ranked 14th i believe. and its only 17 games into his career. you have to think he's still going to improve some. how much is debatable i guess. i'm more optimistic than some. but hell i'll take 14 right now. next year hopefully he's top 10
     
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  21. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    right because at some point the guys up there are going to start to decline as well...
     
  22. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Not saying Henne is not the guy, but unfortunately for every "1" Tom Brady there are HUNDREDS of QBs that never develop beyond anything other than being an "average" player.

    Comparing Henne to Brady is putting the cart before the horse. Perhaps, wait until Henne leads Miami to the playoffs before making the Brady comparisons?
     
  23. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    what do you mean he hasnt developed. his touch passes from last season to this are night and day. last year he was facing alot of man coverage and had success so this year he's seeing zone and he did good moving the ball against that zone. granted he had three picks but that's what qbs do when they have less than 30 games under their belt. young qbs throw picks. that is their nature and that is why it used to take 5 years before you saw the field. only in this day where they get paid 20 million do they get thrown out there this early. the price for that is interceptions. but the important thing isnt the ints at this stage its that he can move the team. Busts cant move the offense. show me a qb that cant move the ball and i'll show you a bust. show me a young qb who moves the ball but throws picks and i'm excited. the picks will start to disappear but the ability to move the ball wont
     
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  24. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    yeah look at hasselback. he's about done. favre is on his last hurrah
     
  25. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Right now Kyle Orton is one of the best QB's in the league, statistics wise, but I would wager that most people don't think Orton is an elite talent or will win a SB, barring having a Ravens 2000 style "D"

    And Henne isn't even on Orton's level yet. That's all I'm saying. I hope the guy turns out great, but I'm still waiting
     
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  26. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    17 games. of course you're going to wait. all of us are waiting. its 17 games. we can get a better sense of him after 32 or actually 33. 1st game 3rd year
     
  27. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    YouTube - NVEExport.mpg
     
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  28. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

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    I think all the haters here forget our inept our offense has been since Marino left. Yes, Henne had a bad game with 3 picks. Other than that, he's shown the ability the past few weeks to move the offense up and down the field with some very nice throws that we have not seen since Marino retired. Every single other QB in between the two struggled to move the ball as well. The only close one is Pennington, and he did it with mostly 10-15 play drives. Efficient? yes. Smooth, No. I'm not comparing Henne to the elite QBs, kind of stupid at this point. But he's shown some flashes that we have simply not seen before. We all want him to be an upper tier QB and ready to bench him because he is not.
     
  29. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I must have miss that.....agree on the rest for the most part...
     
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  30. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    that screen to ricky. last year he probably wouldve missed him or thrown it 100 mphs. there were some passes in preseason too. i believe there were some in the first three games but i'm blanking :lol:
     
  31. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    You can't honestly believe that's what this thread is saying. You can't have read anything in this thread and still believe that. It is against all laws of reason to believe that's the point of this thread. The point of this thread is, and quote me here: "Better QB's have done worse early and worse QB's have done better early. Calling for Henne's head or calling him a bust this early in the game is abjectly idiotic. Henne has had ups and downs and for his career is 9-8. Until such time as he proves he isn't a winner, which can not accurately be called after 17 games, it is stupid to make daily threads calling for him to be cut."
     
  32. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    This was my thread..... so don't tell me what it's about. I know what it's about; I created it.

    Did you even read this thread? I stated in the opening post that people need to be taken to the shed if they see this as a comparison of Henne to Brady. LOL. Using Henne and Brady in the same poe6 doesn't mean they are being compared.

    There is no comparison. This thread is about using Brady as an example of the developmental stages that young QBs go through b/c there are still TOO MANY impatient, unrealistic fans expecting too much too soon who are now looking towards dumping Henne for Penny or Thigpen. I used Brady's similar performances to show that even guys like Brady still take time to develop and have bad games. THAT'S ALL. Brady was given time..... Rivers was given time...... Sanchez was given time...... Aikman was given time...... Henne needs to be given time too.

    I didn't imply anything. Chad Henne is Chad Henne and will ONLY play like Chad Henne. I've stated that I feel that too many fans seem to be expecting nothing less than an elite QB (the 2nd coming of Marino) which is an unreasonable expectation to place on Chad. Saying "but not expect him to become elite" and me "wanting him to be elite" are 2 totally different concepts. I want Chad to be elite, but I "expect" Chad to become the best QB CHAD can become and not judge him based on what Marino did. Period. If that means he only becomes a good-great QB, a Top 10 QB..... then I'm perfectly fine with that. We can win Super Bowls with that. Unrealistic expectations leads to let-downs and frustration. I try to avoid both.
     
  33. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Dude..... read the threads please. No one is comparing Brady to Henne. This is only about allowing youth to develop without irrationally pulling the plug and potentially destroying their career.
     
  34. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Poor example IMO. Denver drafted Tebow in the first b/c Orton is not their future. If the Broncos had Henne I guarantee you that Tebow is playing for another team right now.
     
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  35. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    If Henne doesn't become an "elite" or "franchise" QB, I think we would be fortunate if he is just a "good" QB because it would certainly be a solid improvement over most of the QBs we have tried over the last few years. Henne is a young QB and is going to struggle at times thats part of growing into his role as a leader and QB.
    Could we do better? Maybe, but we could do a lot worse as we've all seen in years past. Just think if we had burned a first round pick on Jamarcus Russell.
     
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