Cameron Wake is a recently turned 29 and will be due for a huge contract extension. I would seriously look into the possibility of trading him for these reasons:
1. Wake would likely net Miami a first and third round pick from a competing team.
2. Miami could apply the 12-13m a year it would pay Wake to a couple of players such as say signing Carl Nicks and a Michael Griffin from Tennessee.
3. Wake is probably going to be on the wrong side of 30 by the time Miami is looking to compete for a Superbowl again.
4. Wake's pass rush abilities are heavily based on youth, speed, and the explosion he demonstrates off the snap which may fade into his 30s.
5. Wake is not a pass rusher that acquires his gaudy stats against LTs. He's very good but he's no young Jason Taylor.
I think when you look at it as trading Wake to acquire an additional first round pick, third round pick, very good safety, and a great guard long-term it's a situation to seriously look at. There's always a possibility that they can sign a defensive end down the line as well which would be ideal since really you're just paying for another top defensive end/OLB and getting the picks. Either way in a sunken season it's a great option. In the same way that trading Taylor going into a rebuilding year, trading Chambers going into a rebuilding year and guys of that sort were very good moves this is simply another good one, but on a larger scale.
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I agree with trading him. That being said I think the most we net is a 2nd rounder.
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I forgot to mention the last part. The defense would probably really suck without Wake which would be perfect since that'll be the catapult you need to get Andrew Luck.
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I wouldnt have a problem if he was traded. I am not sure how many more years he cant continue to be a beast. Especially a couple years into a big contract...
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The defense already sucks with Wake. He's being game planned, the other pass rushers aren't picking up the slack, and the DBs are allowing the offense to make it look easy.
I think trading Wake is a bad idea, at least this year. There is no elite pass-rushing 3-4 OLB prospect in the 2012 draft, IMO. And good luck finding one in free agency: Lawrence Timmons re-upped for five years with the Steelers. The FA market is totally bare. Further, we can't afford to create yet another hole on the defense. Soliai and Langford are scheduled to be free agents, and there's no progress in contract talks with them. Jason Taylor is on a one year deal, too. The defense has enough to worry about without creating another hole at OLB.
Let's keep Wake. We're sucking for Luck just fine. -
I agree that there is no OLBs out there, but Timmons isn't an outside guy.
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I don't think we're going to compete in 2012 either. In fact I would look at CK's favorite guy, Antwan Barnes. Perhaps San Diego says we have to compete at some point and trades him+1st for Wake. I'd take that. Barnes at least rushes off of the left side of the offensive line. Timmons isn't even an OLB. I don't think we necessarily will run a 3-4 in the near future either. We might look at a 4-3.
I could care less if we don't have an elite pass rusher from the draft or free agency in 2012. There's no way I want to pay that huge contract to see Wake decline or see him leave for nothing. -
He could conceivably move outside. There's nothing written in stone that says he has to play ILB for the rest of his career.
You have no basis for this statement. Until we get a new coach and DC who run the 4-3, we're a 3-4 team and have to look at 3-4 personnel.
His production has to be replaced somehow. There is no net benefit to driving the team into the dirt beyond sucking for Luck. -
So could Karlos Dansby what's the point of mentioning that other than to just argue? Lawrence Timmons doesn't have the size to play an every down pass rushing ROLB or LOLB and you certainly wouldn't give him big money to do so.
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He really couldnt. I watch almost every Pitt game and he's certainly not an OLb in a 3-4. He's not that type of pass rusher and better cover guy then run defender.
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Neither does James Harrison. And yet, there he is.
As for posting stuff for the sake of arguing, I'm not the one advocating trading our only pass rusher worth a damn, scrapping the defensive scheme, and intentionally sucking for two years for some nebulous goal in the future. If you move personnel, you have to replace them somehow. You haven't gotten to that point. -
James Harrison has always been at that spot and has shown tremendous strength to make up for it.
You're hilarious, flat out out a riot. -
Thank you for conceding the point.
You realize you're the only person posting angry in this thread, right? I disagree with the idea that trading Wake is worthwhile. I also don't think we'll get nearly as much in compensation as you do, for the same reason you want to trade him: he's approaching 30. That's about it. I'm being pretty even-tempered, and you're the one flinging out insults like "You're hilarious, a riot" and that I'm posting "just to argue". I'm not arguing, I'm offering a counter-point. There is no anger or exasperation here.
I don't think we should trade Wake because we can't replace him with the picks we'd get back: the prospects aren't there, and free agency is barren. Likewise, I also disagree with advocating trading Wake on the basis that we should switch to the 4-3, as you've said in post #7. You've crossed two bridges too far there.
And DJ has a good point here, namely Wake's physical condition. He was out of football for a while, played in the less-intense CFL, and has less tread on his tires than the average 29 year old NFL player. He can likely perform at a high level longer than you apparently believe.Trillfan likes this. -
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I conceded nothing with Harrison. I literally said you're hilarious because I think it is hilarious how you stick to an argument that has very little possibility of being true. Asking Timmons to play a full-time rushing linemen the way Wake does is pretty far-fetched. As far as finding an OLB or a DE for whichever system we prefer, we did it without spending a pick on an a fairly unknown guy. It happens. San Diego may have done it just now. Players grow, they improve. That's always been the case. ILBs that are undersized suddenly becoming 80-90% rush linemen with showing the kind of strength, explosiveness, or containment ability is a little out of the ordinary. Maybe we find one in 2013, maybe we find a surprise in 2012 who knows with that one. At the worst-case scenario we've likely covered two other holes at the price of one.
By the way you brought up anger. I said you're hilarious and that you're arguing just to argue on another point from what the thread was started on. The Timmons one. -
I don't really agree with trading Wake. We're not in rebuilding mode. We've got a pretty good core of young talent, and I don't think it's at all a given we're in any sort of hole for any period of time. That's not the modern NFL, if you're in a prolonged rebuilding process it's because you ****ed up, and we went from 1-15 to winning the division with much less talented and a coaching staff and philosophy we're firing as incompetent idiots, for good or ill.
I don't think 30's really a good cut-off point for Wake, especially given his relative lack of wear or tear. I don't know he's particularly prone to huge drop-off, either. Edge rushers can age well, and Wake isn't a pure speed guy. He can do the speed to power thing, and that's something that does have longevity.
It's pretty unlikely a guy like Timmons could be a 3-4 OLB in any meaningful context. It's very rare that an actual true stand-up linebacker can turn into an every-down edge rusher. Blitzing is different than lining up on the edge against a tackle for most of a game.Ohio Fanatic, Trillfan and slickj101 like this. -
I might be crazy...but I am literally willing to trade away, our entire draft, plus Wake plus Jake to get Luck. Im serious.
Im propably being unreasonable here...but if we have a new regime, **** it. Anything for a competent QB in my book. -
If you think that Wake can continue as a long-term pass rusher even as he ages would it be possible to play Barnes-Wake together on a full time line perhaps a Miami 4-3 as Miami ran around 2001 with a Gardener like player (Odrick with a little more bulk), Starks, and Soliai inside rotating in and out.
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You're absolutely balls in the window insane. Luck is a prospect, people need to not forget that.Trillfan likes this.
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Eli was also considered this can't miss prospect over Big Ben and Phillip Rivers and he's clearly not the same quarterback.
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You are propably right.
Im 20. Moved to US in 03 and been watching since 04. Since ive watched, ive heard plenty about Marino (seen his first 5 seasons and some other games) But live action wise...We had one good team. That 11-5 team. Im tired of medicority. If will average 9-7 for next 10 years with couple of 11-5 season and maybe even a playoff victory...Where does Jake come in? Even if he goes to HoF after those 10 years? If watching Miami in Marino's days was anything like watching Colts with Manning over past decade, then whatever, ill trade away the whole damn team. In this NFL you need a QB, period.
Im sure you going to bring me bunch of facts to counter my opinion, reasonably so. My point is...yes, he is just a prospect, best looking prospect since some dude in Tenn. I would rather try and fail then be okay with 8-8 team for next ten years. -
Wake is signed through the 2012 season for chump change ($540K). So, there is no rush (play on words) to decide.
The trade deadline is the Tues following week #6. I doubt that Ireland is going to be able to make any moves, by Ross, until the direction of this team is established after the season. -
I disagree. I think there was teams that didn't think Eli was the best QB in that draft. There was some question marks about Eli...he's not near the prospect that Luck is. There was a lot of people that rated Eli as top guy based on potential.
With that said I would give up the farm for Luck. Considering how we look so far, we could be not to many picks off. I wouldnt give up wake, long and an entire draft for Luck.
But I may give up close to that. Lol -
I would feel a little better if we had someone behind him already that we were grooming... say a Q. Spears or something... oh wait... needless to say, trading him to the Pats, if that's what it took to net that first and third rounder, is an option in my mind.
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No one can be sure that we will even be playing a 3-4 next year or, how Wake will fit in.
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You want to trade the only pass rusher they have because right now he's not playing well? I've got a news flash, neither is anybody else on the defence! Like everybody else on the fins, he's apothetic because of this regime. It won't matter a bit who we draft or sign or trade for. If we switched our whole team for the Patriots they would be a middle of the road team with this coaching staff. The sooner everybody realizes its not the players that are to blame the sooner we can move forward. Sporano and co. have to go.
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So, does Nolan now suck as a DC? Should Daboll also suck, when the O has improved? LOL
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Wait, who says that Wake isn't playing well? He is ranked 3d overall passrusher after 3 weeks by PFF.
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I'm ok with trading wake honestly until we fix our secondary our pass rush wont matter.
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I don't think 3-4 vs. 4-3 matters all that much as much as positioning and responsibility. I don't know we've got a lot to fear from someone coming in and switching the defensive scheme.
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Wake is one of my favorite players and an important piece to our defense at the moment. With that said, I would not be opposed to trading him if the price is right and we are able to get a 1st and maybe a 3rd for him. I am not sure if the market will net us that type of compensation for him at this time.
If in fact we are not able to get that for Wake, I would certainly consider using him in a trade to move up in the draft to get Andrew Luck if we don't get the number 1 overall pick in the upcoming draft. -
It's not really about the market and more about Wake himself, where he's at physically. The market definitely supports a high price tag for Wake: there simply aren't any pass rushers near his caliber available in free agency or similar rush OLB prospects in the draft. So if you're going to trade Wake, the next few months are actually a really good time to do it. Jaj is right at least about the timing. The problem is that the market works against us in terms of finding Wake's replacement. Moving to the 4-3 doesn't negate the need for a rusher; it increases that need.
Really, we should be looking for a complementary rusher to Wake. Koa Misi isn't it. Marcus Benard?
It's going to take more than two 1st round picks to trade up to the #1 overall pick, thanks to the rookie wage scale. It'll help if the team that gets the #1 overall pick already has a QB they're confident in (say, the Rams or Vikings), but it'll still cost more than that. -
A run heavy offense
This is correct. In a 4-3 in the near term future you would want to keep Wake and if he's your left end you want another pass rusher at RE. Perhaps Barnes, perhaps someone from the draft either way if you're playing Wake at left end you're pretty much in a defense similar to the one Miami played in the early 00s except perhaps with more athletic DTs than what they used back then. -
Is it worth creating another hole on this team?
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Just for the hell of it, where do passrushers come from?
1 DeMarcus Ware, LB 15.5 - 11th overall
2 Tamba Hali, LB 14.5 - 20th overall
3 Cameron Wake, LB 14.0 - FA (Undrafted)
4 Clay Matthews, LB 13.5 - 26th overall
5 John Abraham, DE 13.0 - 13th overall
6 Jason Babin, DE 12.5 - FA (27th overall)
7 Charles Johnson, DE 11.5 - 83rd overall, rd3
Justin Tuck, DE 11.5 - 74th overall, rd3
Osi Umenyiora, DE 11.5 - 56th overall, rd2
10 Shaun Phillips, LB 11.0 - 98th overall, rd4
Jared Allen, DE 11.0 - 126th overall, rd4
Terrell Suggs, LB 11.0 - 10th overall
Robert Mathis, DE 11.0 - 138th overall, rd5
Chris Clemons, DE 11.0 - FA (undrafted)
15 James Hall, DE 10.5 - FA (undrafted)
James Harrison, LB 10.5 - undrafted
17 Dwight Freeney, DE 10.0 - 11th overall
Trent Cole, DE PHI 10.0 - 146th overall, rd5
LaMarr Woodley, LB 10.0 - 46th overall, rd2
Ndamukong Suh, DT 10.0 - 2nd overall
I don't see to many premium (as in, top 10) picks in there. A fair few undrafted, some on their current team via free agency. We could conceivably replace Wake with less than a premium pick, but personally I am not sure I would trade him for less than a first.
Lets not forget, there IS precendence to trading an elite passrusher as well - On April 22, 2008, the Chiefs traded Allen to the Minnesota Vikings. In exchange, the Vikings sent the Chiefs a first-round pick, and two third-round picks, and swapped sixth-round picks in the 2008 NFL Draft.
Now, one could argue Wake has less longevity than Allen had at the time, so maybe you drop a third, or move them both a little lower (4th and 5th)? Either way, less than a first round pick is less value than he should bring. -
No, it's not. And I don't know what we'd do with the theoretical first and third round picks that would make up for the loss of Wake's production.
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Not right now. Not any time soon.
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Granted, but you have to admit that he's also a pretty damn good one - we're not talking about a Jamarcus Russell type prospect. :wink2:
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