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A Closer Look at Philly's Offensive Philosophy

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by phinswolverinesrockets, Jun 22, 2014.

  1. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    I had a little time on my hands this morning, so i figured i'd try to breakdown what exactly our offense may resemble if Lazor is going to bring Philly's offensive principles over to Miami. (You know i love me some offensive talk)

    The first thing I thought i'd check out is Philly's time of possession stats. What is their time management philosophy? Well...
    Philly was #1 in the NFL in seconds per play. Throughout the season, they averaged 23.38 seconds per offensive play. That is from the start of the whistle to the end of the play. This means they started their plays really early in the play clock and didn't do too much audibling when they got to the line of scrimmage. It doesn't necessarily mean they went a lot of no huddle...it just means they got they're play, made minimal adjustments, and just ran with it. That is amazing for a system that was brand new to their team. I think this is what Lazor meant when he said he wanted to speed up our offense (DJ, you were likely right). Just for a comparison, the Phins were ranked 10th in the NFL in seconds per play. We averaged 26.66 seconds per offensive play.

    Philly was ranked dead last (32nd) in overall time of possession. We're talking about the #1 rushing offense in the NFL and the #4 scoring offense, and they still don't believe in milking the clock...lol. This is music to my ears! Just because you run the ball, doesn't mean you have to take all day to get to the next snap. The one thing i hate about football is watching men walk to the huddle. JOG BACK TO THE HUDDLE, MAN! Just for a comparison, the Phins were ranked 28th in overall time of possession. But let's not kid ourselves, this was for a TOTALLY different reason. It's because we couldn't sustain drives and our offense was putrid.

    The next thing i thought i'd check out was how efficient Philly was with each offensive play. Philly was #1 in the NFL with an average of 6.3 yards per play. By comparison, Miami was 26th in the league with an average of 5.0 yards per offensive play. Also, let's take a look at how many yards Philly averaged per offensive drive. Philly ranked 6th in the NFL in yards per drive with 33.81 yards. Miami was ranked 27th while averaging 26.23 yards per drive. If Lazor can help fix our efficiency, we're in business.

    Something else to check out is how Philly did on their first downs. First downs play calling is so important in the new age spread. Philly was #1 in the NFL, gaining an average of 7.72 yards on first down. WOW! How easy is 2nd and 3rd down when you only have to gain 2 more yards? You don't have to limit your play calling. That is light years ahead of what the Phins did on first down. Miami ranked 28th in the NFL, averaging 5.65 yards on first down.

    The last thing that i wanted to look at was completions of 20+ yards. This has everything to do with route spacing and offensive play calling creativity. In my opinion, this is one of the best indicators of having a good offensive coordinator. Philly was #1 in the NFL in completions of this sort by a WIDE MARGIN. Philly had 80 receptions of 20+ yards. That is remarkable. It shows why Chip Kelly is the best play caller in the league right now. The next closest team was Denver with 68, lol. Miami had only 47 receptions of 20+ yards. We ranked 20th. To make this even worse, Miami threw the ball over 80 more times than Philly, YET THEY KILLED US IN CATCHES OF 20+ YARDS!!

    Do you notice a pattern? I sure did. I could keep going on and on about aspects of Philly's offense that is just mind-blowing, especially after comparing them to Miami's. Lazor has a job ahead of him. I don't expect him to be Chip Kelly this year. There is only 1 other coach in football that I think can do what Chip has done in one year...that's Gus Malzahn. Chip and Gus have been doing this for years and it doesn't take them more than a year to install their offensive philosophies (this is why i have been pushing for Malzahn for so long). Lazor is relatively new to this new age spread philosophy, but what he learned in 1 year from Chip Kelly could really help us. As i pointed out in another thread, we were 6-1 when our offense scored 23 points. That's all i'm expecting this year. Our defense is solid once again, just give them 23 points on offense to work with for this year. We'll be in the playoffs, easy. If it doesn't work out this year, throw the entire franchise to Gus Malzahn and let him take us to the promise land.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    While Lazor may prove himself to be a highly capable and adept OC, it remains to be seen how much commonality our offense will share with Philly. And I think its an important distinction to note Bill Lazor is our OC and not Chip Kelly. Should be obvious, but I get the feeling that some fans don't quite understand the difference between the two. Maybe Lazer learned a thing or two and we'll run some similar concepts (and by the sounds of it, we are), but Chip Kelly is a real innovator and architect. What is Bill Lazor? I don't know. We don't even know how much influence he had developing Foles/Vick for that offense.

    I have no doubt that Chip Kelly has the ability to change, adjust, and adapt his offensive style on a weekly and yearly basis. He's proven that ability. I don't have the same confidence is Lazor. At least not yet. Lazor is the ultimate unknown commodity. There is also an issue of Joe Philbin. Philbin has stated that he has final say on this offense and what we'll do on Sunday's. It's unknown how much control Lazor will truly have to implement his offense, whatever that may be.
     
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  3. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    IMO this is a huge key. I think it's an indicator of the difference between a system that gets players in space vs. one that just says "beat your man" or "execute better". Efficiency is also reflected in those 20+ yard play stats. Those help that per play average considerably and are much more likely when you get players in space. Every time I watched Philly this year that was what stood out. Foles was making easy throws to players in space or McCoy was running five yards before a defender got near him. Now I really like both players so I don't mean to take anything away from them, but it's clear that the system made their jobs easier. I can't say the same for Miami's players.

    And I have more faith in Lazor than most here. He was far and away my top choice among the OCs we considered. By all accounts he is considered a real innovator. That term was often mentioned by those that have worked with him in the past. And I think we're seeing that key attention to detail in the practice reports as well. In my experience, all the greatest OCs have near obsessive levels of attention to detail.
     
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  4. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    I agree with everything you just said. Like i said, 'I don't expect Lazor to be Chip Kelly, but he should be able to at least improve our efficiency in some areas in his first year.' Improving tempo and route spacing (which will provide room for more big plays) is what i'm expecting to see the most improvement on.
     
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  5. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    I hope you are right. I like what i've heard this offseason as far as player movement and tempo. It is a step in the direction i would like to see for this offense.
     
  6. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    One thing that makes me skeptical of a lot of these statistical observations is when they're abstracted from the players in the systems. Cam Cameron was a genius until everyone remembered he was coaching a bunch of all-pros. I think with the movement of coaches who fail in new cities, there needs to be more focus on who's executing these plays. For example, Peyton Manning has played in really simple offenses his whole career but his arm talent is at an unreal level.
     
  7. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    One of the things that has gone under the radar about Phillys offense is the defenses they were facing last year. The Cowboys, Giants and Redskins were all terrible on D last year, that's 6 games. The Lions, Packers, Bears and Vikings were just as bad, that's 10 games. The Raiders were an abomination on D, the Chargers were below average and the Broncos were average. The Bucs were decent but had injury issues and were 0-8 out of the gate. That leaves the Cardinals and Chiefs as the only above average to good defenses that Philly faced all year, and we saw what happened to the Cheifs D in the playoffs vs a mediocre Colts offense. They faced the Saints in the playoffs and struggled to score, going home in the first round.

    Philly also had arguably the best OL in the league, an elite RB and a formidable group of receivers and TEs.

    All this Chip Kelly is a genius stuff is waaaaay overblown. There are no genius coaches. Put Kelly, or any OC, in Miami w/ the players Sherman had last year and the results would have been pretty much the same.

    Unlike Philly Sherm didn't have a steady diet of bad defenses to feast on. The entire AFCE can play D, the entire AFCN can play D. Carolina, New Orleans and Tampa can play D. The only below average/bad defenses Sherm faced were Indy, San Diego and Atlanta, all wins, all 23+ points scored.

    Was Phillys offense more talented and better coached? Absolutely. But let's not get carried away, Kelly seems to be getting credit for a whole slew of things that had little or nothing to do with him.
     
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  8. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Remember when Brian Billick and Josh McDaniels were offensive geniuses? Cameron, Norv Turner, Mike Shanahan, Andy Reid? All geniuses at one time or another. I'm still waiting for Philbin's genius to shine thru, he was the OC of the Packers' elite offense wasn't he? Lol. Sean Payton is clearly a "genius", no? Yet Brees and his O continued to put up HOF numbers even after he was suspended for a year.

    Talk to me in 3-4-5 years after defenses have had time to adapt an adjust and Kelly continues to produce top tier offenses. Till then I'm not trying to hear about how awesome he is.
     
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  9. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think you should assume that Lazor is going to run the Eagles offense. There were a lot of difference between that and what he did when he was running the offense in Virginia. Philbin's preference almost certainly plays a part of it, which is going to align itself in some ways towards what the Eagles did- but some of the fundamentals are different.

    The absence of option plays in OTAs I don't think can be discounted. Without them, it's certainly not the same offense, and I'm not sure why they would hold them back.
     
  10. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Exactly. Todd Bowles isn't running the Dolphins D in Arizona, Jason Garrett didn't bring the Miami offense to Dallas. We'll all to wait and see what Lazor's approach is, even if it's not as exciting as assuming it's gonna be Eagles south. We sure as hell didn't get Packers south when Philbin arrived.
     
  11. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    You bring up a really good point about their schedule and the defenses they played. I'll give you that.

    You mentioned their great offensive line and offensive play makers. Well, let me take a stab at this:

    Here is their starting OL in 2013: Peters/Mathis/Kelce/Herremans/Johnson
    Here is their starting play makers in 2013: Foles/Vick/McCoy/Jackson/Cooper/Avant/Celek
    They were the 4th highest scoring offense in the NFL in 2013

    Here is their starting OL in 2012: Dunlap/Mathis/Kelce/Watkins/Herremans
    Here is their starting play makers in 2012: Vick/Foles/McCoy/Jackson/Maclin/Cooper/Celek
    They were the 29th highest scoring offense in the NFL in 2012 (pre Chip Kelly)

    So, now let's look at what changed on their offense to make them better? The play makers didn't change. They brought in a franchise left tackle. They upgraded at right guard and right tackle. And Chip Kelly, his staff, and this offensive philosophy came in.

    Doesn't this sound kind of familiar when you compare what the Phins just did this offseason? The play makers didn't change. They brought in a franchise left tackle. They upgraded at right guard and right tackle. And we brought over a member of Chip Kelly's staff to run our offense.

    You say the Chip Kelly stuff is way overblown. So, you're trying to tell me that by simply adding 3 new quality offensive linemen (that's all that changed on offense), the Eagles went from being one of the worst offenses in the league to one of the best? Chip Kelly's system is irrelevant? Dallas had the 4th ranked offensive line last year, Washington had the 5th best offensive line, and Minnesota had the 6th best offensive line. Neither made the playoffs and only Dallas had a top 10 offense.

    You say there are no genius coaches. I totally disagree with that. You mean to tell me there is no difference between Don Shula, Bill Belichick, Tom Landry, Joe Philbin, Jason Garrett, Jim Caldwell, Marvin Lewis, Dennis Allen, and Jeff Fisher? They all bring the exact same thing to the table? So, if you put Joe Philbin on those old Dolphins teams, we would of had an undefeated season? How about trading out Jason Garrett for Tom Landry...they'd still win all those rings? The winners were winners strictly because of the talent they had under them, and it has nothing to do with their philosophies and systems?

    In my opinion, you put Kelly on the Phins last year with its exact same roster and we're a 12 win team, especially with our defense, which is much better than Philly's.
     
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  12. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Billick was never an offensive genius. How hard is it to just lob the ball to Moss on a fade route? He declared himself a genius. I don't know of any fans or commentators who called him that, lol. McDaniels is still a great offensive coordinator, so i don't see where you're coming from on that one. Cam Cameron and Norv Turner both are running offenses better suited for 1995. They were offensive geniuses until better offensive systems came along. Mike Shanahan and Andy Reid have never been offensive geniuses, in my opinion....especially Reid. If it wasn't for Jim Johnson, Reid wouldn't even be relevant. Sean Payton is one of the best play callers in the league today. If you don't think so, tell me how Brees was doing before Payton got his hands on him (was he putting up 5000 yard seasons?). Better yet, tell me how the Saints offense did before Sean Payton arrived. No, i'll tell you. Under Jim Haslett, their offense was ranked 31st in the NFL in 2005. I'm sure Payton's system had nothing to do with them putting up record numbers the next few season after that though, am i right?
     
  13. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Philbin told us all he wasn't going to run McCarthy's offense. He told us that in his press conference right after we hired him. He said he is not going to just put Green Bay's playbook on the table and go with it. We're running Mike Sherman's crap, which is why Philbin never interfered with Sherman. Philbin didn't even call the plays in Green Bay. I was very suspect of the hire in the first place. I kept asking people what exactly did Philbin do in Green Bay. Not one person could give me a straight answer. All i heard was, 'he's their offensive coordinator and he developed Rodgers'. Well, I know he had nothing to do with Aaron Rodgers' development. And, if he didn't call the plays, was he actually anything more than an organizer of some sort while over at Green Bay? That's what i took from it.

    I agree with you that we won't be Philly South. I have no doubt about that. Lazor isn't Chip Kelly. He's not even close. But, he does know the basic principle's of Kelly's system...the tempo and route spacing. I don't think our playbook has really changed from last season. I just believe Lazor is tweaking some of the route combinations, player alignments, and tempo. That's all i'm expecting. Maybe our offense can grow from there.
     
  14. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thank you, thank you, thank you. And GM also raises a good point about the defenses they faced. Stats are nice, but they don't tell all. Was Emmitt Smith a great back? Obviously, but he also played for years behind an incredible O line. Context is so important. Still have high hopes for Lazor, if I can state the obvious.
     
  15. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To be fair, Cam Cameron didn't have a lot at WR in San Diego. He had LT. Still, he created a high scoring offense around a star RB. He just had almost nothing to work with while here :D
     
  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He helps prepare the reports the CEOs present to the shareholders at the annual meeting. Lol. Yeah, he didn't call plays, and he didn't develop Rodgers (his own words). His ideal job would be CGO. Chief Gameplanning Officer.
     
  17. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    There are no genius coaches. Meaning that no one is consistently fooling their opponents or overwhelming them with superior Xs and Os. Sustained success comes from having better talent, preparation and execution. Schematically speaking, teams are going to catch on to what other teams are doing no matter how innovative it is.

    Shula, Belichick etc are all time greats w sustained success over decades, using a wide range of different tactics and strategies. Their ability to adapt to and manage different sets of players set them apart, they certainly didn't take the league by storm with a particular scheme or style of play. Kelly doesn't even belong in the same paragraph with them.

    Youre right about their skill positions staying basically the same but IMO you're seriously under estimating the effects of having an improved OL. Most of the stuff they ran wouldn't have been an option in Miami bc our OL couldn't block, for starters. And I'd love to hear how Kelly, or any coach, would have won 12 games with last year's talent. We might have to go back and rehire Ireland lol.
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The Dolphins have been running option plays in OTAs. Reporters have noted them. There have been pictures taken of quarterbacks executing read-option plays. John Congemi even straight up described wide receiver screen option plays which from what I saw were the exclusive property of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2013. I never saw a single other team running those wide receiver screen options, except now John Congemi is describing them happening in Dolphins OTAs and when I gave him a clip of an Eagles play I thought he might be talking about, Congemi said I hit the nail on the head.
     
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  19. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Of course Lazor knows the principles of Kelly's offense. My point is that that any competent coach who studies any offense can decipher how it works. The question is do those other coaches have the players to run it, or stop it?

    Where we disagree is that I don't think Kelly was doing anything that couldnt be duplicated by other staffs, provided those staffs had similar talent and circumstances. Sherman, like any coach, was calling plays based on the talent he had available to him. You can come up w whatever scheme you want and it can be the best scheme ever but if you don't have the players to run it then you're screwed.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think when it comes to Philadelphia's offense there was really a confluence of things happening there.

    I'm not into the idea of taking credit away from Chip Kelly and the coaching staff for what they did there because any true examination of that offense is going to reveal REAL differences in how they approached things versus how the rest of the league approaches things. There truly unique aspects of that offense that really did work on the field. The staff deserves credit and it starts up top.

    But at the same time they really might have had the best offensive line in football. And the running backs were fantastic too. I'm not sure how much I buy that any other aspect of the offense including the quarterback were really awesome on a league-comparison basis, but the the OL and RB positions were pretty fantastic. I've admired the job their front office has done for a while.
     
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  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't agree with this. Offenses are not two-dimensional paintings that can be copied. Offenses are taught, adjusted and executed without the benefit of after-the-fact film study. Offensive principles are believed in and adhered to by coaches, and when the defense shows you something that forces you to adjust (which happens pretty much every game) then your adjustments are guided by those principles.

    Some coach can watch the tape and arrogantly claim he easily could've run that offense...except he didn't, and that's exactly the point.

    It would be like someone taking a look at Apple's stock chart over the last 10 years and saying I could've told you Apple would be a good buy. Except you didn't, and that's the point.
     
  22. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Thatd be great.

    In 2013 our screen game sucked, and it was primarily due to personnel. Outside of Pouncey the OL moved like molasses and defenses were always expecting short throws bc we couldn't protect long enough for the slower developing stuff.

    With a better OL we can run the deeper route combos to expand the defense, and with a more mobile OL we can actually get people down field to block for the screens. But when you have guys like Jerry, Incognito, McKinnie, etc on the OL your screen options are limited. Hell it'll be nice to throw simple check downs to the backs now that they'll no longer be babysitting the QB whenever we try to pass.
     
  23. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    If it's the kind of play I'm thinking of...damn yea we're in for some real college wrinkles in the offense.

    Is it where there's a read-option between RB-QB, with the WRs staying put for a screen if the run lanes are packed? iirc I've seen Mariota do some funky stuff with that...like he'll keep it and then once he gets to the edge the WR can even be a sort of lateral-pass or pitch outlet...which would be unusual in the NFL I'm sure but I feel like I've watched him do it at Oregon. We're practicing that stuff? Pretty wild.
     
  24. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree with much of this. I think Seattle's talent was very comparable to Miami's, particularly on offense. Their offensive line was as bad or worse than Miami's most of the season. The difference was in how their coaches masked that deficiency. I think that if you had switched rosters between the two teams that Seattle is still the SB champ and Miami is still out of the playoffs. The talent in the league is really close. The difference right now is that some coaches are using that talent better.
     
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  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's this play. (FF to 1:37)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmEsU6vielE&feature=player_detailpage#t=97

    Didn't see any team other than Philly run it in 2013. I wouldn't call it some kind of staple play and even Philly probably only ran it maybe once a game. But it's a pretty immediately identifiable play that you really only saw one place in the NFL last year except now John Congemi is seeing it in Phins practice.
     
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  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Between Mike Pouncey and Shelley Smith the Dolphins have two players who are legitimately among the best at their position releasing and getting out into space. JaWuan James has unusual lateral quickness for a right tackle and if Branden Albert has his legs under him (he was very inconsistent in this regard in 2013) then he had abilities this way as well. My hope is that Billy Turner comes around quickly enough to win the left guard position because he would also be unusually athletic in space for the position and that would really complete the set, so to speak.

    If that all pans out I would certainly hope Lazor was running plays that could take advantage of the line's movement abilities. You need to take advantage of the players' strengths because otherwise you're giving their weaknesses the chance to dictate what happens.
     
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  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Too much emphasis placed on scheme IMO, not enough on player development.
     
  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Develop that talent into better players?
     
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  29. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I hear you, but you can't patent an offense the way you can patent an IPad. Successful schemes are always studied by other teams, it's a copy cat league as the saying goes.

    My point is that no matter how good the scheme is, in the NFL other teams will figure it out and then it's back to talent, preparation and execution. When I watch the Eagles I see pace and aggression, but I don't see anything overly complicated. They have some very good players and they use them well, but IMO it's the players making the scheme work not vice versa.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I did this in the Club but I guess I can put it out here. Here is a list of the things I'm looking for when it comes to the unique aspects of the Philadelphia Eagles offense that COULD find their way into Miami's offense.

    01. Percentage of play-action passes (Miami 15%, Philly 33%)
    02. Presence of option run plays (designed runs per game: Tannehill 0.6, Vick/Foles 2.1)
    03. Percentage of times a back is kept in to block (Miami 33%, Philly 15%)
    04. Run tendency on 2nd down (Miami 33%, Philly 52%) and 3rd & 2 to 5 yards (Miami 7%, Philly 46%)
    05. Time to Attempt (Tannehill 2.44s, Foles 2.88s) and percent of dropbacks at 2.6+ seconds (Tannehill 40%, Foles 61%)
    06. Deep passing attempt percentage (Tannehill 11%, Foles 17%)
    07. Percentage of run plays when in Shotgun (Dolphins 17%, Eagles 41%)
    08. Offensive motion percentage (Tannehill 20%, Foles 32%)
    09. The passing stretch play (fast-forward to 1:37)
    10. Passing behind the line of scrimmage (Tannehill 11%, Foles 18%)

    The questions are to what extent has Bill Lazor become an adherent of the concepts they ran in Philadelphia, and how much will Joe Philbin lean on Lazor to do things the way in which he's most comfortable seeing them done.

    On the latter point, we're already seeing right now some evidence that Philbin doesn't like all of the pre-snap motion but that it's something Lazor does like and they're going to try it for now and then see if the players are getting it. Philbin's background is Green Bay under Mike McCarthy, where a lot of pre-snap motion was anathema. Lazor has a history of using a lot of pre-snap motion going back to Virginia. It's not even necessarily a Philadelphia thing. Philbin is obviously not comfortable with it due to his own background but he's willing to try it. Yet you get the feeling that if there is any evidence that the players aren't running the offense efficiently because there's too much going on, Philbin will ask Lazor to dial it down.

    I also can't stress enough the importance of the former point and I'll give you an example. Dino Babers has been coaching in college football for a long time. He's got a lot of experiences in a lot of different offenses. He's been a successful wide receivers coach but really had a lackluster career in general. At his last stop before becoming Jimmy Garoppolo's head coach at Eastern Illinois (and now the head coach at Bowling Green), he was a wide receivers coach for Art Briles at Baylor University. From that point on, Babers became an adherent to the offensive and team principles Briles developed at Baylor. There is absolutely no doubt about it. He considers himself a disciple, he believes in those approaches, he brought them to EIU and in some ways even advanced them further. But prior to his time at Baylor he was a pretty classic run the ball kind of offensive thinker.

    Bill Lazor has coached under a lot of different coaches. He's been to a lot of different teams. He spent one year at Philly and he was just the QB Coach. There are a lot of reports out there that Chip Kelly was very hands on with the QBs and so Lazor's main duties were just to grade them and show them what they need to do better. So to me, there are all kinds of possibilities. You could easily have a Dino Babers situation. Bill Lazor could have been so affected by the unique things going on in Philadelphia that wherever he goes, he's bringing that approach with him. Or you could have a situation where Bill Lazor is still going to run mostly the stuff he ran at previous stops like Virginia, but perhaps with a few ideas picked off his Philadelphia experience (e.g. the passing stretch play).
     
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  31. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I just started reviewing Seattle's games a few days ago, only up to the Colts game so far though. What makes you think they could have won a title with Miami's talent?
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    They wouldn't have won a title without Russell Wilson on offense, IMO. He's becoming one of the elite quarterbacks in the NFL.
     
  33. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I used to not think this. Then I hit NFL Game Rewind for a few hours. Now I agree with you 100%.

    Also: that 3rd down passing efficiency in the Super Bowl!
     
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  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    What really sold me on him actually happened in his rookie year and that was when he brought his team back from a significant deficit two games in a row in the playoffs, putting them in position to win the games after falling behind by multiple touchdowns early. A lot of what he did in those games was him making plays by himself in very tough situations, and obviously as a rookie in the NFL playoffs that's about the most pressure-packed situation you can be in.

    Those playoff games, on top of a 100+ passer rating season, really told me where he was on a path to end up. And nothing he did in 2013 really contradicted those early signs. What he did in the playoffs in 2013 and even in the Super Bowl were all predictable. He's special.
     
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  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I don't think the playbook he uses is important.

    Its how he calls the game that will matter. Sherman called a poor game.
     
  36. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Pro Football Focus put some interesting additional information out having to do with this:

    They've got drop-back depth:
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Dropback-Depth.png

    Time until Pressure:
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/TTP.png

    I think this makes it easier to tease out the specific issues. Tannehill didn't have a disproportionately high(and if anything, had a low) percentage of quick pressure. I think the problem is more specifically one of predictability within elements of the passing game- Protection packages, drop depth, a relative lack of mitigation of pass protection issues, etc.

    Where are you getting the motion numbers out of curiosity?
     
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  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Sports Illustrated for motion stuff. ESPN's motion splits are worthless as they appear to only count motion if the player is moving as the ball is snapped, as in a fly sweep for example. So according to them hardly anyone uses motion that often. Sports Illustrated's motion splits are more helpful that way.

    The time to attempt, drop-back depth and play-action percentages are all tied in with one another. They all tell a story of how the Philadelphia Eagles offense was called differently from the Miami Dolphins offense.

    I'm not sure how to read that time until pressurer stat. It's a percentage, but percentage of what?
     
  38. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    My god the space their players have in which to operate is insane. None of those plays, at least the several I watched, did Foles have to thread a needle.
     
  39. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Very interesting charts. All we heard was how quick they were to pressure Tanny because of the line, but if their numbers are right, Tanny had only medium (to even low) percentage of plays where he was pressured quickly. And look whos at the top, Russell Wilson.
     
  40. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good point. I assumed dropbacks/passing plays?
     

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