A Livas/Kick Return Question?

Huge exception. While awesome...Cobb's return showed some really piss-poor special teams tackling. If you look at Sproles punt return, at least 2 guys just slipped and fell over. Wear the right size cleats, fellas!

"Southbeach wrote:

As we all know, the kickoff return was basically eliminated with the rule change, and one would have to believe that was the reason Livas has left us. Did anyone bother to tell that to the Pack and Saints?

Sproles, who I and many here liked, had a KO return for 57 yards, and a PR for another 72 yards/TD. Cobb had a 108 yard KO return for a TD.

Was this a HUGE exception to what will come this year or, did we make a big mistake on Livas, and what he could bring to the team. I see a mistake.

Last season there were 2 touchbacks all season at Lambau Field. Yesterday there were over 4.

"DePhinistr8 wrote:

Huge exception. While awesome...Cobb's return showed some really piss-poor special teams tackling. If you look at Sproles punt return, at least 2 guys just slipped and fell over. Wear the right size cleats, fellas!

I would tend to agree but, it's hard for me to discount three Monster kick returns between two Super Bowl contenders.

You'll probably see a lot of wacky things going on with kickoffs. The fact that there are a lot of touchbacks probably increases the chances that when a kick is returned, it will be a TD. At the same time, I would expect teams to start trying to pin kicks inside the 5 yd line as well.

I think you might've also seen some "wtf, he's bringing it out?" reaction by the coverage teams...lanes broke down as guys half heatedly ran down to cover thinking it would be a TB, etc..

But hey, Kudos to Cobbs and Sproles for making plays...it was exciting as hell to watch.

"Stringer Bell wrote:

You'll probably see a lot of wacky things going on with kickoffs. The fact that there are a lot of touchbacks probably increases the chances that when a kick is returned, it will be a TD. At the same time, I would expect teams to start trying to pin kicks inside the 5 yd line as well.

I would like to see us being able to do some of these wacky things. Cutting Livas was my biggest disagreement with what Ireland has done this off season.

"DePhinistr8 wrote:

I think you might've also seen some "wtf, he's bringing it out?" reaction by the coverage teams...lanes broke down as guys half heatedly ran down to cover thinking it would be a TB, etc..

But hey, Kudos to Cobbs and Sproles for making plays...it was exciting as hell to watch.

I agree, it was some fun to watch those three plays. LOL on the WTF, he's bringing it out.

Anyone know if Livas was signed by another team?

"DePhinistr8 wrote:

I think you might've also seen some "wtf, he's bringing it out?" reaction by the coverage teams...lanes broke down as guys half heatedly ran down to cover thinking it would be a TB, etc..

But hey, Kudos to Cobbs and Sproles for making plays...it was exciting as hell to watch.

That's what I was thinking. Id be wililng to bet kick coverage teams were jsut going through the motions expecting touchbacks, and the run backs caught them off guard.

"Southbeach wrote:

Anyone know if Livas was signed by another team?

No, not as of yet.

As for the larger topic, hard to tell, and both players were not returners only so they were sort of moonlighting as Returners so to speak.

Sparano mentioned that he thought the Pats would try and attack some old ST issue on MNF, should be interesting to see how it turns out.

Well that is a topic that has gone largely unaddressed since the release of Livas. Not that Livas was a Devon Hester look-a-like, but he was certainly better than what we've had. This is one aspect of the team that imho has not been addressed, at all. I may go nuts with another season of Davone "5 yrds and fall down" Bess as our PR. I love Bess as a receiver, but that's about all. Our STs have not improved much in Sparano's tenure here. I don't know that Livas was the answer, but I can say that I don't see an answer on the roster right now either....

"Larryfinfan wrote:

Well that is a topic that has gone largely unaddressed since the release of Livas. Not that Livas was a Devon Hester look-a-like, but he was certainly better than what we've had. This is one aspect of the team that imho has not been addressed, at all. I may go nuts with another season of Davone "5 yrds and fall down" Bess as our PR. I love Bess as a receiver, but that's about all. Our STs have not improved much in Sparano's tenure here. I don't know that Livas was the answer, but I can say that I don't see an answer on the roster right now either....

Perhaps, we have to see what Gates can do on Returns before just hoping for "good enough" out of the Special Teams Unit this yr.

Coverage teams will be much much better as we returned everyone who mattered, and added Mitchell.

"Southbeach wrote:

I would like to see us being able to do some of these wacky things. Cutting Livas was my biggest disagreement with what Ireland has done this off season.

I think the fact that he had a return for a TD in the preseason probably worked against him.

"Stringer Bell wrote:

I think the fact that he had a return for a TD in the preseason probably worked against him.

Imo what worked against him is his work at Wr, or lack thereof, that made his bar impossibly high, either a Td on every return or he was not going to make the squad, and that is just unfair to the player imo.

I suspect they give Gates/Bess a try, if they do not really flash and a Wr goes down then we see Livas back.

Don't discount Nolan Carroll. He nearly broke a couple of returns last year.

"padre31 wrote:

Perhaps, we have to see what Gates can do on Returns before just hoping for "good enough" out of the Special Teams Unit this yr.

Coverage teams will be much much better as we returned everyone who mattered, and added Mitchell.

Amaya's loss will be felt but I believe Wilson will be better, and then some. Starvin Marvin was a VG signing, very versatile at LB and more than a roster spot for that alone. Add in being a ST's stud, and I really like the Mitchell deal.

Keeping Walace also was a big plus for ST's. He was really good.

Gates looked lost in his few chances to return. When he watched the ball thankfully bounce between his legs, without hitting him, it reminded me just a bit of the returner we tried out hitting him in the head. It was not as obvious but, just as much of a mistake, if not more so.

"rtamigo wrote:

Don't discount Nolan Carroll. He nearly broke a couple of returns last year.

Carroll was not bad at all on KO returns but, I would have much preferred Livas. Bess was OK as a punt returner but, would have much preferred Livas.

"Southbeach wrote:

Amaya's loss will be felt but I believe Wilson will be better, and then some. Starvin Marvin was a VG signing, very versatile at LB and more than a roster spot for that alone. Add in being a ST's stud, and I really like the Mitchell deal.

Keeping Walace also was a big plus for ST's. He was really good.

Gates looked lost in his few chances to return. When he watched the ball thankfully bounce between his legs, without hitting him, it reminded me just a bit of the returner we tried out hitting him in the head. It was not as obvious but, just as much of a mistake, if not more so.

Well, default is Carroll, personally I'd go with gates until he shows that he does not have the skill needed, otherwise Carrol won't make it past wk #4 with his running style.

I believe you will see more big KR returns especially in the first couple of weeks. On some of the kicks last night the kicking team did not attack at full speed once the ball headed toward the endzone. They saw it go long and sat on thier heels so when they did come out they were a step behind. And in the NFL a step behind can cost you big time. I suspect to see most of the big plays after teams take a few touchbacks and special teams get comfortable.

As far as Livas goes I say we made no mistake look at the returns last night did you see them get hit and not go down that. Livas couldn't do that he is a pure burner so unless he beats them at the point of attack he would drop. If he could break that first tackle i think he would be deadly but until he can break that first talk he isn't worth a roster spot unless he improves as a WR.

"Stringer Bell wrote:

You'll probably see a lot of wacky things going on with kickoffs. The fact that there are a lot of touchbacks probably increases the chances that when a kick is returned, it will be a TD. At the same time, I would expect teams to start trying to pin kicks inside the 5 yd line as well.

That was my first thought as well. Coverage units just won't be as finely honed covering kicks, when 90% of the time they start to go charging downfield, only to see the ball go through the end zone. Or, the get lulled into relaxing when they see the KR take a knee 6 yds deep a few times, then are caught off guard when he decides to come out of the end zone with the next one.

"Stringer Bell wrote:

I think the fact that he had a return for a TD in the preseason probably worked against him.

I cannot possibly fathom how the TD return could be any kind of a negative for SNL.

"Southbeach wrote:

Amaya's loss will be felt but I believe Wilson will be better, and then some. Starvin Marvin was a VG signing, very versatile at LB and more than a roster spot for that alone. Add in being a ST's stud, and I really like the Mitchell deal.

Keeping Walace also was a big plus for ST's. He was really good.

Gates looked lost in his few chances to return. When he watched the ball thankfully bounce between his legs, without hitting him, it reminded me just a bit of the returner we tried out hitting him in the head. It was not as obvious but, just as much of a mistake, if not more so.

I also think Trusnik will help on STs, and maybe our best STs player is Chris Clemons. We will see him on punt and kick coverage, whether he is starting safety or not. They put him in Cobbs old job as punt team up back and as last line of protection for the punter that is a role not to be taken lightly.
As the games went along, from 1st to 4th, I noticed Trusnik around the ball more and more covering kicks and punts. His signing as our first UFA was a direct message that we ain't gonna take STs as an afterthought anymore.