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A More Vocal Tannehill...?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Aug 15, 2018.

  1. eltos_lightfoot

    eltos_lightfoot Well-Known Member

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    Which was not correct.
     
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  2. eltos_lightfoot

    eltos_lightfoot Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately for you, all you said was he wasn’t accurate deep. Which isn’t true. If you want to have a separate conversation about the interceptions, we could do that. But first? Admit he can throw deep accurately.
     
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  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For the Love of Christ, where did I quote you calling him a bum? I talked about deep ball accuracy and his footwork (which effects deep ball accuracy).

    I was trying to take the high road here and end an argument- I'm one of the few here that almost everyone gets along with. So if you feel like you have to troll me for validation, then the problem might not be the other folks on the site. Just saying....
     
  4. eltos_lightfoot

    eltos_lightfoot Well-Known Member

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    I never thought about that aspect having my Jay Cutler to learn from. Interesting...
     
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  5. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to argue with you. I,thought your post was good. I agree with what you said. Here is a direct quote from your post.
    "Do me a favor- reserve judgement for RT for three more weeks. Get back to us after the NE game and tell us what you think then. If you still think he's a bum"
    Does that not imply that i said he was a bum? If that's not how you meant it then disregard my response
     
  6. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    When he starts throwing deep accurately on a regular basis, I will. He had one EXCELLENT deep ball yesterday. Lets see what he does the next few weeks
     
  7. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

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    Tanny cant throw the ball when it's wet. Gase is saying the ball slipped out while Tanny was throwing and we've seen him cough it up in the preseason a couple of times.
     
  8. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe he should dry his balls before he handles them.
     
  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    But that is incorrect, and that is the problem. You can have the opinion that he was or is a bad deep ball thrower, and still be completely wrong in that opinion.

    Which you are.
     
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  10. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Where are they?
     
  11. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    All over this forum
     
  12. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    First it was general inaccuracy, then deep ball accuracy, then deep pass to deep interception (?) ratio.

    I'm alright with that opinion. However, there's nothing opinionated about the chart in the link I shared. If anything, he should be throwing deep passes MORE often. I'm alright with your opinion that he can cut down on picks too, there's nothing wrong with that.

    However, the tone of your posts is just downright absolutist, stubborn, and reeks of grumpy douchiness. We're alright with conflictory opinions but you haven't backed up anything so far except the not-so-subtle advances of your original statement.
     
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  13. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Clearly!
     
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  14. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Jesus wept.
     
  15. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    This is going too be another long year if Tannehill debates I fear.

    Here is the facts with the deep ball.

    The term deep ball is frankly a blanket term.

    Statistically Ryan has always been at least decent at the "20 yards in the air" which technically they consider a deep ball by NFL standards. So even early on he was middle of the road (not bad) on those throws by definition.

    Me? My issue was always with his deep passes to Wallace which frankly were pretty damn inaccurate. Put on the tape, it's obvious.

    Issue was his mechanics. Ryan didn't have the trajectory to lead a WR like Mike Wallace who if he was even??? He was leaving. Ryan had more of a straight forward form when passing, like a throw to a spot type attempt. Wasn't what you would call a good fit. Remember, Ryan had not played QB very long by comparison.

    People huff and puff but in 2014 Wallace and Tannehill were a damn good duo, just not on the long ball.

    Ryan was coached in the 2015 offseason on the mechanics of leading Wr's deep. This is documented and a fact. The dude improved some that year, and even more moving forward. The evidence of this improvement was the pass you saw to Kenny yesterday. PERFECT.

    It's all moot at this point, but it is the basics of how the "deep ball" debate started and frankly has ended.
     
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  16. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    You need to get your issues sorted out. Start by studying route running. Get back to me when you begin to grasp it, and can discuss this topic in further detail. Look forward to more intelligent conversations in the future.
     
  17. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Post the attempts, I believe in two years we had 10-12.

    You have the capability and enjoy putting GIF's together. I'm open to discussing these plays (all of them not cherry picked) If i missed something, I have no issue saying it.

    I'll be logged on most of the night and look forward to breaking these plays down with you.
     
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  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I think the Wallace deep ball issues were more nuanced than Tannehill not being able to lead him properly. Tannehill connected do his rookie year with other receivers, like Hartline, in stride. I think Wallace presented an issue because 1) he was way faster, and 2) he ran really imprecise routes. So, I don't think Tannehill ever trusted Wallace to be where he was supposed to be, and it created hesitation in his throws deep to Wallace. I agree, some of those throws looked really awful, and it's easy to just blame the QB, but I think it was both.
     
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  19. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Yep. Bad marriage. It's hard to be a young QB still learning (with no real QB coaching) and go from throwing to Brian Hartline to a spot, to trying to lead one of the fastest men in the NFL. It was always going to be a hard adjustment.

    Luckily, he changed his mechanics in 2015 and he has been leading Kenny Stills on the deep ball ever since.
     
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  20. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate it and we'll chat about many things going forward, but I'm not going back 4 years to rehash a tired argument.

    Film study is tedious and time consuming, and I'm focused on the NFL '18 season concerning game tape. I aim to watch every game, every week, and about a 1/4 of those great detail. I don't have the time to waste here.

    Just for perspective, charting just the Dolphins defense alone takes me approx 4-5 hours. And that's just the defense as a unit and not a complete, in-depth breakdown of the individual players. Football teams have complete staffs that are responsible for film study and they all have different areas to chart to break up the duties.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  21. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Understood.

    Most of these are pretty evident 9 routes however, not sure how in depth you need to go to make a conclusion on these 10-12 play's.

    But i agree, there is nothing productive in rehashing a 4 year argument.
     
  22. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    [​IMG]
     
  23. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind that assessment of Ryan. It actually leads into one of the things I think is most impressive about the guy. He came in raw with some big holes in his game, but every year the guy not only wipes out some of the issue, but in some cases turns them into strengths. It really is one of the more impressive things I have seen a guy do in the NFL.
     
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  24. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

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    His pocket presence has always been his biggest weakness IMO. Hes taking a long time to develop that but other moving parts will factor into that.
     
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  25. Slk018

    Slk018 Member

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    I hope that is the case. Grant has acres underneath the safety across the field. That makes me feel a lot better if it slipped. It did look more like a punt than a throw
     
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  26. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Well, when some folks keep on preaching the same old thing despite facts... that is to be expected sometime.
     
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  27. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Well, since the presence of a pocket in Miami recently has been a continuing search..... Which might just begin to look as if there is a hint of a possibility of a chance that one could perhaps exist on that field now... we could be able to see how he responds to the presence of one.
     
  28. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Presnap leverage and coverage ID, release, postsnap coverage ID, stem according to DB leverage, stack, the overall footwork through out the entire process. There's a lot to take into account. It's not just simply go long, fast.
     
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  29. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Do you, perchance, have inside information as to where the receiver was supposed to go on that play? It is easy to blame the quarterback because the only ones who know where the receiver was supposed to be and where the ball is supposed to be were on the field or in the box upstairs. I don't. Does anyone else?
     
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  30. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stop making sense Rev. This is all about emotions. get with the program. :-)
     
  31. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Tall receiver outside on a short corner.....That was obviously supposed to be a fade. If you say that you don't know that, you're lying. That was a god awful pass
     
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    And it was god-awful what Gesicki did on that play.

    We should probably cut him, right?
     
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  33. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It was an awful pass. It seems you only expect perfection. SO I guess you're going to be right. He's not perfect.
     
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  34. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I agree on some of this.

    But I guess if all these things are how you arrive at a conclusion, and you haven’t done it then why do you automatically want to blame Wallace?
     
  35. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    :smackhead: I did. In '14.
     
  36. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    What's your analysis on how Gesicki ran the fade?
     
  37. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Why not 2013? That’s when it was the worst. If I recall they didn’t have more than a handful of those attempts that year.

    The focus was on Mike adjusting to Ryan’s strengths in 2014. Hence the 114 passer rating Tanne had that year when targeting #11 who had 10 TD’s.
     
  38. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    It doesnt matter how he ran it. He could have run the most perfect fade route in the history of football and it wouldnt have mattered. Not only was the pass short, it didnt have enough arc on it, not even close. Everyone of you is stroking Tannehill cause of that long pass but are ignoring the int in the end zone. Sometimes he makes good throws, sometimes he doesnt. He's the definition of mediocre
     
  39. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I don’t think he is mediocre by any stretch, however I agree with you on this particular play.
     
  40. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    How would you categorize him? He's not elite. So would you say he's just above average?
     

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