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Advanced Scout thoughts on Chad Henne

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    yes. field position won our games, not scoring and that surpisingly we do well
     
  2. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    If being a Dolphins fan means I have to embrace mediocrity then it must be time to look for a new team. It's not an overreaction. The season is almost over and this squad has been as bad at home as the 2007 squad. Even if they win Sunday they will finish the season with the 3rd worst home record in franchise history. Two weeks out and they have no shot at the postseason. A month out and they lost control of their own destiny. Yeeeeeeeeehaaaaaw!!! Missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs. If that has to happen I myself would definitely prefer an offense that I won't fall asleep watching.
     
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  3. Frayser

    Frayser Barstool Philosopher

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    This post made me laugh. What is the point of the choice you present here? I don't quite follow.
     
  4. Frayser

    Frayser Barstool Philosopher

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    Field position from our defense. This really is not a great argument. You're simply utilizing the fact that none of us can prove a negative to support the false choice you present.
     
  5. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Still have yet to see a single clip with Henne looking off a safety.
     
  6. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    you cant expect to be challenging for a super bowl three years away from being 1-15. we are halfway to where we need to be. we have built a championship defense. now we have to build an offense. that will take either one year or two. I lean towards one but if we miss on some picks it will be two. we will fill some holes on offense, maybe all, maybe but a few but we have less and less holes every year overall. 7-7 is not a failure when we were 7-9 last year. Like Henne we are progressing just not as fast as some would like but the important thing is we are progressing. That is all that matters. The biggest tragedy was going 11-5 the first year. If we had gone 5-11 people would have been happy. That 11-5 skewed all expectations
     
  7. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If we had gone 5-11, we might be sitting here with Matthew Stafford, with a pro bowl LT protecting him and might be better than 7-7.

    Going 11-5 didn't change the expectations. I think most people understood we had an easy schedule and that we might take a step back. What we didn't expect is that an offense that was actually pretty good would become inept overnight, unable to either run or pass with a QB who is scared of his own shadow.

    Our offense has regressed further than anyone could have imagined.
     
  8. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And by the way, Atlanta 3-13 that year, not much different from us, #1 seed in the palyoffs.

    Just saying.
     
  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    no. its the philosophy we have been employing for three years now. play ball control field position football. scoring is not as central to that philosophy as it would be for a quick strike type of offense. we do that because we have a great defense. that is the correct philosophy to employ when you have crappy personnel on offense and a great defense. play ball control, dont turn the ball over and force the other team to make mistakes. When you have a crap defense then you need to score touchdowns all day long because even if you're ahead you know your defense will give it up. we can play the opposite. protect the ball and try to get more first downs then the other team. and in thos e kind of games field goals are as valuable as touchdowns are in shootouts
     
  10. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    and dallas was supposed to win the super bowl and look at them. look at the vikings. those are legitimate teams to ***** about. what were our expectations. maybe get lucky and get in the wildcard? we werent lucky but we're better than last year and thats all that matters. be better every year and eventually you win the ring. its when you go backwards that you reevaluate not when the speed with which you are moving forward isnt fast enough to your liking
     
  11. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    cant argue that. never saw it coming with the offensive line. henne i couldve seen. sophmore slump is to be expected but the oline? my god but that was a blowup.
     
  12. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    So you recommend someone new to a company (and is still learning) to be insubordinate and tell his boss to F-off if he feels that his managers aren't using him correctly? I hope you own your own business! :lol:



    :tongue2:
     
  13. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the difference between us and Atlanta is that after we both went 11-5, they went out and acted like a contender. They added tony gonzalez and weren't scared off because he was older.

    You think Penny couldn't have used Gonzalez?

    We acted like a team that was happy to have been a fluke 11-5. Start acting like you belong in the discussion. We sort of started that by getting Marshall but then went back to the "meat and potatoes" nonsesne in the draft. We were so desparate to get a 2nd round pick back we passed on Earl Thomas and Dez Bryant, either of whom I'd rather have than Odrick and Misi.
     
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  14. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    The beauty is that the D is set for the most part......but this draft and offseason can be heavy on the speed and youth on Offense. Two years, back to back, one fixes the Dside, this one fixes the Oside. You would think that should be S.O.P. but for what ever reason, its often never as easy as that....easy may not be the best word, but its usually more haphazard based on injuries, contracts, or age. We are somewhat fortunate we dont have that on the Dside to impact our ability to focus Oside in big way.

    For all of us that are still in the Henne deserves a new OC and chance mindset.....the question still is, ok, but how long? Do you give Henne, OTAs and Training Camp? Do you give him PreSeason Games? Do you give him Reg Season?

    Its about what other options exist, but for me, it has to be resolved by Camp, and final decision by PreSeason wrap up. Live and Die with whoever wins the battle, so to speak.
     
  15. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i expect him to make the right reads. when he does the offense will open up for him just as it did for jake delhomme his first year under henning. the first half of that year they just ran stephen davis but once delhomme showed he was getting it, henning opened up the offense in the late second half and started attacking vertically with delhomme to steve smith
     
  16. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    No, not with this coaching staff. The season isn't over yet. We could still be 7-9. I don't see how this season isn't a failure. Becoming a terrible home team is a failure. The offense is regressing, that is a failure. Where would be if the offense could have simply stayed AS productive as last season? People are smart enough to realize why we were 11-5. We're not idiots. We knew we weren't going to the Super Bowl. You're wrong about skewed expectations because Sparano wasn't on the hotseat after last season's weak finish.
     
  17. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    well i think what we did is we concentrated on getting our defense set and we succeeded there. but we made alot of errors on offense (white, turner, thomas, murphy, nalbone, wilford, grove, smiley) we cant afford any more mistakes on offense. this year we need to hit on our offensive decisions
     
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  18. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Top teams know that even on their bad days they'll find a way to win. They trust their talent. Our coach thinks that every player has to execute perfectly and avoid mistakes and then they might have a shot at winning a close game. You can tell when Henne is quoted as saying that they have to get the looks they want and everybody has to execute well for things to work out. The coaches have beaten him down with this. He is not talented enough to overcome this on his own.
     
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  19. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    and the defense is super bowl caliber. you can win an SB with our defense. now we just need an offense too match. plus this is what happens to second year starting QBs. The Falcons only went 9-7 last year. Now look at them in Ryan's third year. They made a splash year one, regressed year two and went back up on an upswing year three. we will too
     
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  20. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Falcons only got worse by two games and are the #1 seed now.
     
  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    WHAT!!? Are you joking? Field position was horrible for us all season. Through our 1st 5 games we had ZERO scores from drives that began inside our opponents 50 yard line. MOST of them were 70-80 yard drives IIRC.

    -Pitt we had a 80 yard drive, 69 yard drive, and 2 FGs from drives starting at our 26 & 29.

    -Cincy: 96 yard, 89 yard, and a 77 yard drive for scores.

    -Balt: 75 & 79 yard drives for only 2 scores.

    -Tenn: 69, 75, 75, 85 and a FG from a drive starting at our 35

    -Oak: 65, 75, 72, 73 yard drives.

    -Browns: 80 yard drive and a FG that started at our 34.

    -Buffalo: 64 & 77 yard drives.

    The only 2 games that we genuinely had short field opportunities were Pitt & NY (the 2nd game). The other games had a few scattered scores that began outside our opponents 40 yard line.
     
  22. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    true but we didnt regress in year two of henne reccord wise. at worst we will be the same but in all likelihood we will improve. and next year when there is a complete influx of new talent on the offensive side and henne has another year under his belt and another vet QB in case he doesnt progress we should make another leap in wins. there is zero reason to believe we wont improve next year offensively just by virtue of the fact that it will be the sole priority of the team in the offseason. they would have to miss on every upgrade and henne would have to fall apart for us not to improve
     
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  23. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i think the best way to gauge it would be first downs. that would show control

    buffalo 19-9
    minnesota 12-22
    green bay 26-16
    cincinnati 20-16
    tennessee 21-15
    oakland 24-11
    jets 6-14

    the other thing would be total yds but i'm not going back and adding those numbers. i hated homeowrk as a kid and still do
     
  24. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Maybe the reason Chad Henne calls for max protect so often is that he figures why let a guy who can't do anything with the ball run out to begin with? What the hell are Mastrud and Williams/Brown going to do in the open field this year. They sucked, they flat out sucked. Defenses hope for these guys to get the ball. They're the equivalent of a zone defense hoping for Ron Artest to shoot 3s.

    No matter what quarterback you have you must have better offensive personnel to beat the best teams. We simply don't. Maybe Henne's not the guy (I think he can be), but improving the personnel doesn't set us back at all.
     
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  25. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    This thread has at least 5 more pages to go. Let's go, people!
     
  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Yes, you do. First off, I'm not related to Henne. I didn't go to Michigan. I didn't date his sister or have a nephew who goes to school with his little brother. I have no ties to the guy. The reason I feel he deserves a shot is b/c: 1. he was a 2nd round pick, not a high first. As such, it was obvious from the day we drafted him that he would need a little work, or else he would've been taken in the first 20 picks. 2. he's obviously much more talented than John Beck ever could be.

    IMO this regime is not playing him to his ability or style of play and we're seeing the results right now. It's not a cop-out excuse. We've forced him to be Penny 2.0, which he is not. We wouldn't ask Penny to become a downfield bombs away type thrower, so why would we expect Henne to succeed in this current system?

    Chad's a gunslinger and needs an offense to fit that. People are saying that he's not that accurate etc. Well yeah, of course he's not "deadly accurate"; he has a cannon for an arm and needs to be used as such. His arm isn't meant to be the 'precise dinking and dunking', 'move the chains 10 yards at a time' type. He doesn't need to be pinpoint accurate. He needs some big or fast vertical targets that he can quickly get the ball to downfield where they can use their large catch radii (or 4.3 speed) to make up for lack of "pinpoint" accuracy. IMO when you draft a Chad Henne, you draft him for his arm, not his accuracy (although his accuracy isn't horrible by any means. 62% in our dinky system isn't that bad really).

    His cannon should be treated as a commodity, but we don't treat it as such. We bring in possession type WRs & TEs when he NEEDS guys who can stretch the field (or make big plays downfield) just like he had at Michigan. Bess, P Turner, Hartline, Fasano, are possession catchers. Marshall is even a possession receiver (just a pretty damn good one).

    When you guys think of big arm QBs, are Bess, Hartline, & Fasano the first guys who jump to mind whom you'd want to be throwing to? Not to me they aren't.
     
  27. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I just tried to do 1 page all by myself. I'm working on it for ya. 4 more to go. :lol:
     
  28. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I hated homework too. :lol: That's what buses are for IMO.

    You could go the other route and use:
    1. the quality of our return game which isn't very stellar
    2. TOs created on defense which ranks near the bottom of the league
    3. 30 or so missed INTs which is last in the league

    Being poor in these areas leads me to believe that we couldn't do well in field position compared to the rest of the league.
     
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  29. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Posts like this are juvenile and stupid. No one thinks this way. Don't make posts like this unless you want the board to be one big flamewar.
     
  30. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    He's exaggerating to make a point..... b/c contrary to how you feel, there ARE posters who place entirely TOO much blame on Henne as if ALL the other problems regarding the offense are nonexistent and have zero impact on a developing QB.
     

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