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Advanced Stats Poo-Pooing on Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by GARDENHEAD, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    did you forget what he has shown on tape?
     
  2. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    Who Luck? Shows me a bunch of bad decision making and poor throws. And a robust 76.3 rating lmao.

    You guys would be KILLING Tannehill if he had that kind of rating. Such hypocrites lol.

    And yes, I watch all the games.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  3. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    That's all you got from my post?


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  4. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Anybody and everybody that's not a blind homer Fins fan would disagree with you.


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  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Jason Fox, Deej.

    What have you seen from Jason Fox that makes you think he should be playing in the NFL? This isn't about James being great, he's not, he's average. The problem is that after James there's the dumpster fire that is Jason Fox.

    Ryan needs a minimum average line. That's not ridiculous to ask for. That's not an indictment of him.
     
    resnor likes this.
  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What is the correlation between good oline play and running the ball, or are you going to ignore that? After the Tennesee game two weeks ago, I was told over and over how smart people were, because they said all we had to do was run the ball more, and we'd be successful, and they said that game proved it. Myself and a couple others said, No, we got Albert back, Sims back, and put in Turner. Now here we are, after a game where the blocking was bad, we lost an olineman, and Miller got 9 carries...and the argument is back to Tannehill makes everyone worse, and the oline doesn't make the run game better?

    You guys are delusional. Literally, the proof has been on the field for two seasons. Bad oline play, missing olinemen, and both the run game and passing game suffer.
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    There isn't a QB in the league that is solely responsible for 10 wins. Just like Pennington wasn't so elite that he took over a 1-15 squad and won the division, contributing on his own, 10 wins.
     
  8. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    There were two solid games from the OL. The Pats realized they had to hone in on the run to shut down the offense. They didn't even worry about Tannehill.


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  9. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Manning and Luck are two examples. Same team. Without them the Colts were 2-14.

    Seriously, who other than Res believes the Colts tanked even though their HC and GM were fired at the end of the season?


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  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    And what was the difference with our oline for those two games, compared to the games before and this last game?
     
  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well, I would expect the Colts to have 10 wins a season then every season, since Luck can just grab 10 on his own. They should just not even draft any players, or put anyone on the field with him.
     
  12. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    We've already discussed the differences. You know we have. Why didn't they execute against the Pats? Because James went down?

    Sure, that affected us, but then surely the Pats will suffer the rest of the season since they've barely got enough healthy offensive linemen on their roster.

    We enjoyed two amazing games relying on the running game against two bad teams. The Pats shut that down as I suspected they would. We'll bounce back in the running game against weaker opponents, you'll see.

    But as soon as good defenses can shut it down, Tannehill is going to have to try again to make big plays to get them to back off. We'll see if he's up to the challenge that time and I'll post about it as soon as I see it.

    I'll be rooting for him and I'll be a happy fan if he does. I'll continue criticizing him if he doesn't. He needs to be that type of game manager for us.


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  13. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    You can expect him to win his division every year and have a better season than Tannehill every year. He's one of the best QBs in the game, face it. Don't be a hater just because you like Tannehill more.


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  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Hard to say "they shut it down" when Miller only had 9 carries, and we stopped running down by 9 points.

    Clearly the Patriots either have superior players than ours both as starters and backups, or they have superior coaches, who are able to get their backups to be at least average.

    Again, Tannehill can't "make" anything happen. He can't "make" Matthews run the right route. He can't "make" Miller keep running to the outside for a clear first instead of him juking back inside for no gain. He can't "make" Stills catch that perfect ball in his hands. Should I keep going?
     
  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    But he will win 10+ games, no matter the team he has, because he is that good, right? Luck just wins games, well, because he can?

    You totally are missing the point. This isn't about whether or not Luck is better than Tannehill (he is). It's about no QB winning on their own. You Tannehill haters can't admit that, or your house of cards would come crashing down.
     
  16. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    He had the chance to hit a play action or read option for a big play at least ONCE. He didn't. You telling me he couldn't do ANYTHING to get the defense to back off the run?


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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No. That's not what I'm telling you. You aren't even attempting to comprehend what I'm saying. Even on a play-action, Tannehill couldn't "make" someone catch the ball, or "make" them run the right route, or "make" the oline block, or "make" the defense bite on it.
     
  18. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    I never said that. I'm saying he's good enough to elevate his team. You understand what I'm saying. Manning and Luck elevated their teams to be much better than they were.

    Look at Manning with the Broncos while he was still in decent shape with his own offense. He set NFL records. Luck is that type of guy. He elevates his team to be much better than they should be. He'll bounce back. Even his worst season will be better than most.


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  19. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Okay. Were there a bunch of dropped balls? Were receivers not getting even a bit of separation? Or was Tannehill just unable to take what the defense was giving? Can't tell me the Pats played a perfect game of defense. They surrendered 300 passing yards.


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  20. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    finsfandan.. in this thread:
    http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?87643-A-couple-of-observations/page3

    I'm claiming resnor is misrepresenting your position. Can you quickly answer the question in post #41, either there or here?

    Which do you believe to be true: 1) Luck was by far the most important factor for the 10+ wins, or 2) there was literally no human being in the world other than Luck that contributed in any way to the 10+ wins.

    I'm saying you are claiming #1 is true but #2 is false. Resnor says #2 is what you are arguing. Care to be clear on this? Thanks.
     
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yes, actually, there were dropped balls. Yes, receivers were struggling to get separation.
     
  22. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Number 1. Not surprised he's claiming number 2.


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  23. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Rhetorical questions. There weren't a bunch of dropped balls and receivers were getting open enough. His INTs were on him.


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  24. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Also, thanks for letting me know. It's not cool how often I'm misrepresented. Good thing is it's usually only those two.


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  25. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    lamar miller runs right for 8 yards
    tannehll throws to miller for 1 yard
    lamar miller runs right for 10 yards (holding call on sims)
    ryan tannehill pass short left to rishard matthews for 15 yards. JJ JAMES INJURED

    lamar miller runs right 0 yards
    tannehill throws right rishard matthews 17 yards
    tannehill runs right -1 yard(designed run IIRC)
    lamar miller runs right 3 yards
    tannehill sacked -6 yards

    once james went out, 3 rushes 2 yards.
    the rest of millers runs

    lamar miller runs left 0 yards
    lamar miller runs up the middle -1 yards
    lamar miller runs 1 yard TD
    lamar miller runs up the middle 2 yards
    lamar miller runs right -2 yards

    so why all of a sudden after getting 8 and 10 yard chunks(granted the holding penalty but from what i remember it wasnt something that helped miller gain a significant amount of yards.) did miller all of a sudden start to look like the miller from earlier in the season? james is a solid player but fox is beyond awful as is the depth of the dolphins oline. just to be adequate all starters need to be there, if one goes down the rest of the line suffer mightily.
     
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  26. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    no matter how many ways you explain it to them they cant grasp the importance of an offensive line. They are fantasy football fans and there are no stats for offensive linemen that they can easily point to. its just too difficult for them to incorporate
     
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  27. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    What a big sample size. One positive play of 8 yards that counted. One more for a single yard.

    That's your argument for James being the biggest factor in our running game being shut down for the game?


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  28. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    A single gain of 8 yards then one more for a single yard before James was injured.

    Man, that was a devastating blow. You sure showed me. You really told me.


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  29. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    how about the three games albert missed. want to see those stats too
     
  30. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    The ones with Philbin as HC? The guy that ran an offense as if he still had Aaron Rodgers? No thanks.


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  31. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    exactly. miller goes from looking like garbage, to looking to back on track, to garbage again. campbell was the coach the previous 2 games where miller went back to back 100 yards yet all of a sudden went back to looking like ****, i wonder what changed.....
     
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  32. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How did Miller run last year after Albert went out, and James moved to the left and both tackle positions were sh**
     
  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    He got limited carries, and people complained that he got worse with more carries.
     
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  34. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ^^^ That's a good thing right? Lol.

    Did he ever go 9/15

    Last year when Albert down we had crap at LT, crap at RT, Pouncey at RG, Satele at C. That can't be worse than what we fielded Thursday is it
     
  35. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Gee, idk, the level of competition went from the floor to the ceiling.

    Belichick and the Pats dared Tannehill to throw them into the win column. Didn't happen.

    Your example of 2 plays combining for 9 yards before James was injured isn't enough to prove that the run game wasn't going to be honed in and shut down with him.

    So what's your argument? Did Miller look like garbage because James went down or did Belichick and the Pats focus on taking away the run regardless?

    You do realize the Pats are one of the most successful teams at taking away an opponent's greatest strength, right? They've proven it so many times.

    Literally the only thing that could've kept the run alive is if Tannehill gave them a reason to worry about him making plays.

    And don't say WRs dropped a bunch of catchable balls or that they had zero separation. The Pats aren't the 85 Bears.


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  36. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    They won't accept that the Pats simply honed in on the run and dared Tannehill to make plays.

    Tannehill is pretty much an athletic Alex Smith that gets TDs with WRs.


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  37. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    and yet our solution to last year's horrible oline was drafting jamil douglas in the 4th round. lol. only the dolphins
     
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  38. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    When Albert went down last season Tannehill had the best stretch of his career. Why does this 2 game sample supersede what he did over 8 games last season?
     
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  39. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Plus Albert isn't ranked that highly in run blocking by PFF. He's a much better pass blocker.

    We still managed to get Miller to have his best rushing season, which in turn helped Tannehill produce his best passing season.


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  40. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    And this time we kept James at RT, so instead of having two bad tackles we had just one. Tannehill looked bad without Albert this season...wait for it....because Tannehill almost always looks bad against AFC East teams. With or without Albert. Look at the stats, he's horrendous against the AFC east.
     

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