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Advanced Stats Poo-Pooing on Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by GARDENHEAD, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    stope playing fu$$in childish games...trying to single out posters who have a different opinion than you and putting them into some little fantasy internet click is immature as hell..
     
  2. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    we were 5-3 before albert went down and 3-5 after. how was that the best stretch of his career
     
  3. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    There goes the 3/5 argument.


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  4. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    lol. So win/loss went from being not a QB stat at all to the only QB stat?
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    evaluate in isolation..like your supposed to do...
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    an athletic alex smith?...alex smith uses his athleticism much more than ryan, ryan is the better pocket passer though.
     
  7. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    we were 3-3 against the afc east last year. we split with every team. how are his stats horrendous?
     
  8. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill is more athletic and a better pocket passer. Idk how often Smith uses his athleticism but the point remains.

    I made the comparison because Smith can't put fear into defenses. Can't hit a deep bomb. Doesn't break off for big runs or scramble to create big plays. Doesn't thread the needle very much. Heavily reliant on the performance of his RB.

    See what I mean?


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  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    his best game last year was against oakland when he had something like 17 completions in a row before his first incompletion. that was when albert was healthy. youre saying his best stretch was when albert was hurt. what criteria are you using. statistically he has three 100 plus qb rating games with a healthy albert. three after he gets hurt
     
  10. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    He wasn't referring to his divisional record. He was referring to Tannehill's personal statistics against the AFC East.


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  11. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    how so
     
  12. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    If what he said is true about Tannehill having the best stretch of his career after Albert went down, of course.

    However, we do know he had his best season last year and so did Miller. That's always been my argument.


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  13. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    patriots week 1 18-32 178 2TD 1 INT 80 QB RATING DOLPHINS 33-20
    bills week 2 31-49 241 1TD 1 INT 73.6 QB RATING BILLS 29-10
    bills week 10 26-34 240 2TD 0 INT 114.8 QB RATING DOLPHINS 22-9
    jets week 12 25-35 235 0 TD 1 INT 77.7 QB RATING DOLPHINS 16-13
    patriots week 14 29-47 346 1 TD 2 INT 73.5 QB RATING PATRIOTS 41-13
    jets week 17 23-39 259 1 TD 0 INT 87.4 QB RATING JETS 37-24

    I see three crappy games and three good games
     
  14. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    look at the game by game when albert went down. lamar started running for 50 yards a game until the last two and tannehill's best games were still before albert went down though he had a few good ones after
     
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  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I see what you mean but alex smith uses his athleticism much much better in the pocket to get out of the pocket, much more consistent in that regard..much more than ryan...I see your point, your saying in general ryan is the better athlete so he should use it more than alex does..but he doesnt...no where near..

    alex has specific qb athleticism, if ryan could scramble as well as alex we might have a well rounded qb..thats how desperate I am..just move around like alex smith, but no, that aint happening, he enjoys being on his spot and he aint movin for no'one.
     
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    That's what I'm asking you to do. Tell me what you think Jason Fox is.
     
  17. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    It just seems like every season there's excuses as to why we can't evaluate Ryan's performances.

    He's a rookie, his OL is bad, his WRs are bad and don't suit him, the OC is terrible, the DC is so bad the offense can't get on the field, the HC is bad, the GM is bad, the new President of Football Operations is bad, the owner is bad, etc.

    Eventually you've gotta evaluate the QB himself despite his surroundings. Can't ignore that other QBs are in or have been in similar or worse situations.


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  18. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Scientifically speaking, you would look for the common denominator, that would be Tanne.
     
  19. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Ouch. :escape:
     
  20. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    To add to that, I'd say it's not even just him. It's that he's missing skills to complement the offense and elevate their play.


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  21. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    2014 is not the only year that ever existed. THERE ARE OTHER YEARS!! This one, 2015, for instance.
     
  22. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    lol
     
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  23. Man-U

    Man-U New Member

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    Hilarious... If not so sad. It's not just him, but other stuff that makes him, him.
     
  24. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand what you're saying. Is this supposed to be a riddle?

    I'm saying the issue isn't him as a whole. He isn't an entirely incompetent QB. He misses specific traits that would complement the offense. I've said it so many times. He can't hit a deep ball and he can't improvise or scramble.


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  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    And you're wrong, no matter how many times you say those things.

    And the merry go round goes round and round.
     
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  26. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    So Tannehill does hit deep balls and can improvise and scramble but the surrounding cast around him is so bad it hasn't allowed him to do so consistently?

    Who else believes that? Honestly.


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  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Honestly, do you even watch the games? Some of Tannehill's best throws have come when he has scrambled, and then thrown downfield. Of course, if you judge Tannehill based on how he did deep with Wallace, and you don't consider Wallace to have been a problem, then you would consider Tannehill to struggle with the deep ball. Otherwise, you've seen Tannehill hit many guys deep, and seen a consistent problem in the last two or three seasons of guys having horrible drops, like Stills the other night, on deep balls downfield.

    And yes, many times the line has been so bad, that Tannehill had nowhere to scramble to. When the pressure comes up the middle AND from the edges, where would you like him to go? When the pressure comes from those places with a 4 man rush, where would you like him to throw it?
     
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  28. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    There you go deflecting again to other players. Wallace.

    His best season was last season. His YPA was ranked 28th out of 33 QBs. Before that? 27th. Before that? 22nd.

    Here's the real kicker. Before that we had Matt Moore at 16th.

    Tannehill doesn't hit big plays often. At all.


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  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I didn't deflect to Wallace. I referenced a player who most point to as evidence that Tannehill can't hit a deep ball. If you're not referring to his struggles with Wallace, then why would you reference a bad deep ball? Was Tannehill's ball to Stills bad? How about the ball to Parker? Should I give more examples?
     
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  30. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    That's a scarecrow argument. I never mentioned Wallace. I'm saying he doesn't hit big plays often enough. His YPA reflects that. He's never been good at it. Moore was better at hitting the occasional big play. The statistics even prove it but you stayed silent on that.


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  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Doesn't hit on big plays often doesn't mean he' "can't hit the deep ball." That was the argument I was addressing. Sure, Moore hits more big plays, but he was also a turnover machine.

    As to the Wallace reference, I was trying to figure out why you think Tannehill "can't hit the deep ball."
     
  32. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Oh whatever!!! Big plays, deep balls, Jesus Christ. Everything with you is word play. You analyze phrasing way too much. No substance from you, only bickering.

    Point is Tannehill doesn't make big plays often enough. Whether it's a deep ball or a scramble that leads to a big play or big runs while improvising, he doesn't do it often. He's done it to the tune of 22nd, 27th and 28th. He's worse than most other QBs in the NFL at it. Face it. He's bad at it.


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  33. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Apparently to go along with his injured shoulder Luck has been dealing with multiple fractured ribs all season. So is it 100% the o-line causing hs bad play or could broken ribs possibly be playing into it?
     
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  34. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Yep, just got the same notification from the ESPN app. That's not a sufficient excuse for them though. Tannehill still has a worse supporting cast even though Luck took over a 2-14 team. But they ranked on purpose even though the HC and GM were fired.

    But Tannehill has 500 more yards and 2 more TDs with the same amount of INTs in 2 more game played! Which is not impressive, especially when you consider all the YAC that he's not responsible for.

    Now we know Luck has been playing with broken ribs. What'll they come up with next? Another conspiracy? First the tank that got the main dogs fired, now the media is in on it too.


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  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you seem to take a very very small sample size and generalize it as fact... in this case, its the rare occassion ryan has broken the pocket and made a play...just because hes done it on rare occassion doesnt mean its a constant legit threat to the defense..the facts are he's running about 50 to 75 % less than previous years, and in those previous years he wasnt running enough, and that Res is dumb on all parties involved.
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No, I just take exception to people making statements that aren't true. Now, I agree, we need more of those plays. We've seen that Tannehill can make them, so the question becomes, WHY don't we see them more often?

    Instead we have to have people claiming that Tannehill can't do certain things, and round and round we go.
     
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  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    alex smith today had 5 carries today for 78 yards, and ran in a 13 yard td run..

    so while it must take some sort of incredible athleticism to switch from big time college wide receiver to nfl qb, something I truly admire, that athleticism is not translating to the qb position at this level...he's down to 1.75 carries a game..scripted and unscripted combined...this is the biggest indictment on all parties involved..if you wanna make ryan tannehill the best qb he can be, then these numbers and importance of increasing those numbers need to be drilled in everyones head..the status quo is not getting it done..period.

    we have a chance to make the playoffs this year, but only if this qb changes his game.
     
  38. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, why is it that we don't see big plays more often with Tannehill? Why did Moore have more success? Is the team Tannehill inherited all of a sudden much worse than what Moore had?


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  39. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I saw that. Even with the defense clearly worried more about the running game, he gave the offense breathing room. And he's not as athletic as Tannehill, just has a better feel for the game since he's always been a QB.


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  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    stop gap, every team has them..scheme around them, qb needs to adapt his game, not sit where the defense is gonna find him..every week you have to assess your team, you can't think well just because something worked three weeks ago shall we wait for it all to happen the same way again, the roster changes, injuries happen, you have to change on the fly, and imo, this is the time for the coach to step in and tell ryan tannehill to get his head out of his *** and change his style into a more reckless style, for the exact reasons your asking me about jason fox.
     

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