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Advanced Stats Poo-Pooing on Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by GARDENHEAD, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I see some value in air yards when looked at YPA as that tells you what the offense is trying to do. But I see air yards YPC as useless in terms of evaluating QB play. The difference is usually a result of deep passes completed and deep passes has as much (or more) to do with the WR than the QB.
     
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  2. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the game plan was "ok you run a 9 yard out, almost step out of bounds, then juke back across the defense run around for a 100 yards and then get into the endzone.... that would be pretty crappy game planning at this level.
     
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  3. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    LOL, if I can quote the guy from the legitimate business mans club, "it's funny cuz it's true".
     
  4. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Lol. So we've gone from outright tannehill bashing to tannehill nitpicking. Guess its progress
     
  5. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They did that in this article.

    They also noted his 3rd down performance, 1 for 5, but that 1 was a TD.

    I don't get the beef with these stats from FO. It's not like they changed it this week to give Tannehill a bad rating. They've come up with stats they think isolate QB play. Each website does that. It's what they do. The team did an excellent job Sunday. Best in the NFL. But 10 passes were at or behind the LOS. Those are just about the easiest passes to make in the NFL. These FO guys take that into account.

    Alex Smith had an eerily similar stat line. Because short throws are easier to make. That doesn't take anything away from Tanny's performance. But they're trying to grade performances and this is what they think is the best way.
     
  6. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    It's weird how thill gets a pass for a terrible oline performance behind Philbin idiotic playcalling but Miller is trash and needs to be replaced. Huge double standard with the thill homers. Miller is a stud rb if given an opportunity. He's the biggest reason for the last 2 wins. Hopefully he can keep it up because this offense runs through him. This will be an interesting week because both defenses are going to try to take away the dink n dunk. Brady can't throw downfield worth a spit himself, unless it's a jump ball to Gronkowski. I fully expect the Pats to load the box and force thill to throw past the line of acrimmage. I like our weapons 1 on 1 downfield. Let's just hope Thill is willing to give them a chance to make a play downfield.
    The good news is thill looks better throwing downfield the last couple weeks. The few attempts he has made anyways. Still and Parker passes were on point. I'd like to see us come out early in 2te sets, behind center and run some playaction passes and take shots 15-25 yards downfield. Hit a couple of those early on and Miller should continue to have success. It's painfully obvious that this offense is dependent on Miller more than anything. Huge dropoff with Miller on the sideline.
     
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  7. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Let's look at the 1 of 5 on 3rd downs:

    First 3rd down play, 3rd and 1, Gray no gain
    Second 3rd down play, 3rd and 4, RT to Landry TD
    Third 3rd down play, 3rd and 13, RT to Miller 6 yds
    Fourth 3rd down play, 3rd and 11, Gray 4 yds
    Fifth 3rd down play, 3rd and 2, Williams fumble
    Sixth 3rd down play, 3rd and 19, Gray 4 yds
    Seventh 3rd down play, 3rd and 13, RT to Gray 10 yds
    Eighth 3rd down play, 3rd and 6, RT inc to Sims (we all know what happened here)

    There was another 3rd down play that was negated by a holding penalty on the Dolphins, so it shouldn't be counted. Also, they got a lot of first downs on 2nd down, so I guess that's a negative too?

    So it was actually 1 of 4 with a TD and a drop, so you could feasibly say he did his job on both of those 2...the other 2 were over 10 yards -- low probability down and distance, in which he hit his receiver and made a completion, but didn't get a first. Additionally, 1 of 2 (2/2 completions) on 3rd downs in the first half with a TD, before taking starters out, etc, so there's context to consider also, but that's not what their system is about, so it is what it is. It's their system, so they can say what they want.

    I'm not saying he's league MVP or is throwing like Rodgers, but there's always more to the story. He had a "very good" day and did his job as asked by the OC/HC. I suppose next time they should just get enough YAC to get the 1st down and stop there...pump up them 1st down numbers.
     
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  8. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Who trashed Miller? I'd like to see that post.
     
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  9. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Definitely a commitment to the run and the fact that they got a legitimate in-line blocker back in the lineup with Sims. I'm happy to see this because I've been clamoring the last couple years for a more balanced attack. We weren't going to get anywhere putting the entire offense on Tanny's shoulders.
     
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  10. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not the only Mets/Dolphins fan here? Yippee! That was a brutal way to lose Game 1. For the love of God Terry stop taking Conforto's bat out of the lineup and stop with the Cuddyer and Clippard bs. So sick of Terry's stupid decisions! We would've been in great shape had we won game 1. We gotta take the next 2 with deGrom and Syndergaard going. We have a huge pitching advantage this series and our bats and defense need to do their part. LGM!
     
  11. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    You're on these boards a lot so I'm sure you were around for the first 4 weeks of the season. I don't have the time or motivation to go find a post for you.

    Furthermore, I don't feel the need to get in a football conversation with you. You're above fin D in regards to football intelligence because you are capable of making valid points but the last thing I need is the frustration of Fin D chiming in with his psycho babble. No offense to you but when a guy like Fin D constantly agrees with you, it may be time to rethink your position. Talking football with Fin D and to a lesser extent yourself is like talking stock market with a 12 year old. We re on 2 different levels. Thill is a solid QB. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's leave it at that.
     
  12. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    In other words, you think you remember an obscure post here or there slamming Miller...but in reality, he wasn't slammed by anybody who supports Tannehill, but that's not your narrative. You're one to judge how somebody else makes a point, when you gotta make **** up to prove yours.

    Whatever dude.
     
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  13. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of hate on Miller this year. Plenty. Considering there's only 3 members of the Thill gets all the credit in a win and none of the blame in a loss clan then maybe it wasn't you of you 3 that said it. Doesn't matter. Make **** up to prove a point lol...sounds like something you and Fin D would be familiar with. Have a good day bro.
     
  14. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    It's blatantly clear to most that this offense needs a running game more than they need Tannehill. You can find plenty of QBs who would succeed with the kind of running game and game plan the fins have had the last 2 weeks. At some point Thill is going to have to win a game for us and I don't like our odds unfortunately. Gotta love what Campbell has done so far. He's made the most of the talent on the team. Get the ball to your playmakers. Miller, matthews, landry and Cameron. A healthy Albert, Sims and Wake have made a huge difference. Add the emphasis on the run game and using less shotgun to take the burden off Thill has been brilliant. Common sense but brilliant nonetheless.
     
  15. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Would appear Marino's Dolphins needed a running game more than they needed him too...unless SBs don't matter.

    Agree with everything else...EVERYBODY who supports Tannehill doesn't say he's the next Rodgers, or Marino, or whichever elite QB you want to name, but that's how the negative crowd takes it. We all say he's good enough to win it with a good team, not even an elite team, and that he's not holding the team back...god forbid everybody do their job in a TEAM sport. I don't want another Marino, I want a good team. You'd think we'd have learned that lesson after all these years. Ask LeBron how that 1-man show works out...

    Edit: And personally, my support of RT is based on what I see as his ceiling, which I don't believe we've seen yet. He is improving his game steadily, which is what I expect...just because he hasn't hit his ceiling yet doesn't mean I'm going to slam him or say he's not the guy, it's only been 3+ years and he's been under more duress than some QBs see their whole career...nobody expected "elite" QB coming out of college for him...those are generational guys.
     
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  16. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    No one. Tannehill defenders blamed the oline. Miller is as dependent on the oline as tanny
     
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  17. Dolphinzdawgg

    Dolphinzdawgg Banned

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    I wonder what they think of Montana ?
     
  18. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Who else is good enough to win it with just a good team?
     
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  19. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Lol...Marino needed some semblance of a defense. He didn't need a running game to put up 20+ pts on a consistent basis. I don't expect Thill to be Marino. One was capable of carrying his offense without much help, the other is dependent upon being a piece of the offense. Thill has done his job the last 2 weeks. I'm happy with his current play but it's going to be tough to rely on Miller running for 6+ ypc the rest of the way.
    I'll give Thill kudos for being a better qb than I ever expected coming out of A&M. He's improved every year but at some point, in year 4 he needs to be better when the team needs him the most. Here's to hoping!
     
  20. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Quite a bit of people questioned Miller. Literally just before the Tennesee game, maybe minutes before. Some outright trashed. Most said he just isn't being given chances.
     
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  21. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    The claim was that Tannehill "homers" slammed Miller...he was referring to Fin D, myself, and I'm guessing resnor. I don't believe I've seen either of those guys slamming Miller, and I know I haven't.
     
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  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    wtf?
     
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  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah, all we've ever said is that Tannehill didn't have the run game to lean on like some other QBs. That's not blasting Miller.

    The people who hate Tannehill on this board, to a man, literally make up every argument and blame us for it. Its comical and sad.
     
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  24. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Then I agree with that.
     
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  25. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I'm a Mets/Dolphins fan born/living in AZ. How's that for you? LOL. People are always like WTH????

    It's only Game 1 though. We're not going to run through everyone the entire way.
     
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  26. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Mets/Fins diehard from Oklahoma. Go figure haha. Just 1 game but that was a huge game. Mets would've been set up great. Oh well. I have more confidence in deGrom and Syndergaard than Harvey.
     
  27. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    LETS GO METS!!

    Total fair weather fan here, don't really follow baseball anymore, but MY{lol} Mets are doing well again, so out of the woodwork I go.

    We still got Booberry and Dwight Powder?
     
  28. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    The point was where are these guys to come to Miller's rescue like they do Thill? Where's all the excuses for Miller? I didn't mean those 3 specifically were the one and only ones who said it.
     
  29. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Again...making **** up to prove a false point...does it ever get old with you?

     
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  30. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  31. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

  32. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Also in that article:

     
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  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    None of us "Tannehill homers" have trashed Miller. More h hyperbole to try to discredit.
     
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  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Do you recall the arguments where myself, and other "Tannehill lovers" argued nonstop that the narrative that Miller got worse with more carries was BS?

    No? You guys don't remember those??

    Edit: not sure why I quoted you...my comment is aimed at others. Sorry, Jdang.
     
  35. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of people were dissing on Miller. It's not my job to convince you of reality. It's also not my job t try to educate you on football. I have no interest in teaching a kid how to play the stock market anymore than I do teaching someone so clearly below my football intellect the game of football. Be the last time I respond to your posts. :up:
     
  36. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    NO...but it IS your job to justify your BS claims...which you obviously can't because it's fictional...says a lot.

    And THANKS for not responding to any more of my posts...you got called on BS, and proven to be telling lies (as usual), so I couldn't give a **** less what you have to say.
     
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  37. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    And I never named names did I? I said plenty of people. Yet you aren't on a mission to defend Miller are you? Nobody needs to make stuff up to discredit some people around here. They do that all on their own by never putting any blame on the most important guy. There's only 1 guy I've seen on these boards blatantly go out of his way to make things up and that guys so senile he doesn't even know it. And no, I'm not talking about you resnor. I've got no problem with your viewpoint. I may disagree but that's ok.
     
  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You referenced 3 posters who defend Tannehill, but I wasnt one of them? Strange. But glad you weren't bagging on me.

    My point still remains, I've seen plenty of us defending Miller against stupid claims that he gets worse with more carries, or that he was the reason for poor running, as opposed to the terrible oline play. Which Tannehill guy have you seen trashing Miller, or blaming him for the poor running?
     
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  39. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Sigh...again just cause u think its a lie doesn't make it so. Miller was dogged on plenty. Fact. It's funny that your best bud on here who agrees with your asinine statements is the one guy who blatantly makes stuff up. Usually towards fin-omenal. Ironic. It's so hard not to respond to hypocritical know nothings but I'll try this again....cya!
     
  40. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    AGAIN...you specifically said "TANNEHILL HOMERS"...bruh...WTF don't you get? All you can do is "durrrrr plenty dogged durrrrr" and resort to attacking personally...can't even argue your own posted claim.

    Hypocritical? Hahahaha...alright then.

    Pot meet kettle.
     
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