Yea and the defense held Bama to 20 and forced a good number of turnovers. Let's not act like Tebow did it himself. Despite his college ability, Tebow is still not a great nfl prospect, and this is the draft forum.
Moody has been in Meyers doghouse because he has been slow to pick up the playbook and because he has been undisciplined . Also he has a penchant for fumbling the ball .I am glad Meyer used him sparingly because that weakness could have cost us a game or two. Thats why he is usually brought in at the later stages of games.He has good moves As for not having any receivers that are draft worthy you are forgetting Percy Harvin who will be drafted as a WR in the first round most likely.
There is not much love for Tebow or Harvin on this board. My guess, and I emphasize guess, is that they will prove otherwise.
Crunch, I see Harvin as more a WR/RB hybrid, somewhat like LoBooker, who we got rid of this off-season. Although, he probably will have to move full-time to WR once he gets into the pros. I don't think he'll hold up otherwise. I didn't include him in the discussion for that reason, but mainly for the fact that I was only referring to the players that were able to play in the FL/AL game. I think we all are in agreement that Harvin has 1st Rd talent- IF he can stay healthy, that is.
Yes.He is a Reggie Bush type .As has been said many times before he has the best first step in college football and that a quality that will serve him well in the pros too However anyone drafting him will have to be concerned about chronic ankle problems . As far as Tebow he will not be a prototype QB but he will find success IMO .You will not be able to compare him with anyone past or present but he will carve out a niche for himself IMO.
It's about fundametals. Mike Teel is a better NFL QB prospect as we stand today. Why? Because he's a quarterback. Tim Tebow is an amalgam of things. One of which is QB but that doesn't necessarily translate to the NFL and when you break down the x's and o's, the work needed is huge. Drafting is a science, an art and also a crapshoot. You eliminate as many potential bodge up possibilities as you can. Tebow has too many for him to be considered a high round QB at this stage. Yes lots of people like him and he's a great kid but transitionally what are you looking for in an NFL QB? * Arm - he's got a decent arm, but not great. * Brain - Can't argue with that * Leadership - Yep he has that in spades * Touch - Inconsistent * Can he make NFL throws? - Inconsistent * Mechanics - Generally mediocre. Feet can be awful, doesn't set up right and the delivery is sporadic. * Manipulate the pocket - Yes he can do that, but he also allows the pocket to manipulate him by breaking down when pressured. * Running mentality - Both Mike Vick and Vince Young are/were better runners with bigger arms. Neither has had success in the NFL * System - What system are you putting him in? He's not a West Coast passer that's for sure. Do you build a system around him? Well you could, but you're going to have to wait 2 years to implement it because he's not ready to run it off the bat. So he has to learn a different system while he learns to be an NFL passer? * There are far too many what if's to be taken in R1. I hope he goes and proves me wrong, but I don't see it.
I think there's a LOT of love for both of them. I know I called Tebow the best college footballer of a generation. That's some pretty serious love. I've also referred to Harvin as the most exciting player to watch in colege football and that's also true. My point is that there are more NFL ready QB's than Tebow who get a 10th of the publicity but are much more fundamentally sound and that in terms of the Miami Dolphins, it would be unlikely that we look in the first round at Harvin and his weight gaining will throw up a red flag at the Combine. I've been crystal clear on both points from the off.
When I say "love" I'm referring to pro potential. I stand by my comments on Tebow and I think that he would do fine in a WCO offense like Minnesota's. His arm strenth will do the job and he's accurate, not to mention mobile. It still wouldn't surprise me at all to see them take him in the 1st. The cupboard is bare at QB and their time is now to make a run. I look at Tebow as being disciplined and relatively humble. I think that he will adapt to the NFL and a smart team will alter their offensive philosophy to make it user friendly to him. Harvin- I think that his weight gain will be viewed as a positive, not a negative, as long as he can avoid the injury bug. Crunch time mentioned his first step- it's phenomenal. Not to be argumentative, but I recall discussion last year or the year before regarding Ginn v Hester- who would be the better return man in the NFL.. My point is that I still think that Harvin will blow Ginn out of the water in the NFL. Just my opinion.
A couple of years ago Michael Vick sliced us and diced us in Miami with his arms and his legs. I think that he was making a pretty good transition before he got involved in the k-9 death match game. As to Vince Young- he was way too much run first mentality, not the sharpest tool in the shed (then agian neither is Vick), and he's a head case at this point. He needs a massive dose of psycho couch time. Great players find a way to get it done- we're not talking Danny Wuerffel or Josh Heupel here, players with obvious fatal flaws- Wueffel had a lousy arm and the worst delivery this side of Frank Costa. Heupel- after I saw him throw at Dolphins camp I wanted to hang Wannestedt by his toes for drafting that guy- he had no arm whatsoever. Tebow is different, and I find that people focus on his deficiencies overwhelmingly versus the positive things that he brings to the table. He has no fatal flaws- as always, just my opinion.
Vick wasn't making a good transition because he was inaccurate. Young was overrated anyway and was never an NFL QB. Keep your opinion about Tebow. But he's no different and the positives he brings to the table as I spelt out and you conveniently ignored are all vital in the pro game.
Enlighten me. As to your following post, my assessment of Tebow: - good arm - accurate -does get flustered sometimes in the pocket - keeps mistakes down to a minimum - ridiculously productive - great leader -very mobile I've seen him too many times this year scan the field and make good throws. I find all the flaws that you listed correctable. The other flops like Frost, Crouch, Heupel, Wuerffell couldn't touch this guy in terms of pro potential. As I mentioned before, we'll find out how he's rated in a few months and how he performs in the NFL in a few years. That's about it. I'm more interested in seeing how Harvin, Caldwell and Mack turn out.
Footwork and mechanics can be worked on- I'm okay with his delivery. I think that the Tebow debate has run it's course.
SY was definitely a better passer coming out. I was only addressing what I believe to be a fallacy; that if a QB was in a run first system he can't succeed in a pass first system. I think it depends on intelligence and coachability. If the player is able and willing to learn then the fact that he was in a run first system is a non-factor. I would guess that Tebow is both intelligent and coachable so the run first mentality is a non-factor.
I agree that Tebow's mechanics are sloppy. They really breakdown whenever there's noise around him in the pocket. He tends to drop his arm down (kind of like Romo does) and (unlike Romo) he rarely resets his feet before throwing. He also doesn't have the quickest release. It's not Leftwich slow though so I think it's something that can be compensated for. IMO Tebow's accuracy and touch is under-rated. Most of his career at UF he's had some big windows to throw thru so I think people are assuming he can't throw thru smaller windows. When you have wide open WRs you tend to make the safer throw rather than risk the over-throw. But against Bama he faced tighter coverage and he placed his throws in some small spaces. I also think that Tebow is a superior decision maker. He runs a fairly complex offense yet very rarely throws ints or even (it seems) to the wrong receiver. So if you give me a QB who's a great leader, with enough size, a strong enough arm, a fast enough release, good accuracy, touch and superior decision making, I'd be hard pressed to say that he won't succeed. I think some guys are just football players. I do think the adjustment to being under center will take a minimum of two years though.
Don't remember where I said anything about Tebow(other than to try to move the discussion AWAY from him), but ok. I will assume you were responding to another poster(s). As for Harvin, three words: Chicken - Leg - Syndrome. Bush had been healthy throughout his entire career at USC, and he's been sporadic so far in the NFL, both in terms of production and availability. What does that bode for Harvin? A move to WR full-time, if you ask me. And he better not be somebody's #1-#2...they're going to be in for a disappointment the first couple years otherwise. He hasn't played the position enough to really develop the moves needed to be an effective WR at the pro level IMO. He's a great athlete, but his injury history really scares me. -Boom, I will be looking forward to that matchup as well. As much as I dislike Saban, the man is an excellent college coach and has recruited his ballz off over there in Tusc. Another year and they will be a scary deep team.
Brandon Spikes edge rushing like that against an offensive tackle of that caliber...that's what I'm talking about right there. That's why I compared Spikes to Joey Porter way back. I agree with the assessment that you probably don't want Spikes trying to shuffle through the meat grinder on the inside of a D and meeting a fullback in the hole, but he just seems to be at home dealing with offensive linemen in pass rush and he can also drop back into coverage and read a QB's eyes, grab the ball. He's fast enough, he's big enough...why not a 3-4 OLB? That's all I'm saying.
I think that Spikes could have a home there. The question is that if he's getting washed out by fullbacks then how do you expect him to go up against an OL that gets off the line quicker than Andre Smith?
It's just different dynamics, I think. He seems much more comfortable meeting someone right off the ball than he does reading and diagnosing a hole and then charging at the fullback with both players going full speed. But I've always thought some of that could be coached because of improper helmet placement and leverage.
Tim Tebow is not a pro Quarterback. Any pressure and the kid's feet move like he is walking on coals. As Boomer stated he has HORRIBLE technique. I would say that he will get drafted in Round 2 because someone will use him as a Wild-Card player in specialized formations. He is not a good enough passer to be a franchise QB. I know many people have love affair with tebow, rightfull so because the guy is a tremendous athlete and college football player but at the next level he is nothing more than a trick-play dude.
Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, Colt McCoy, Josh Freeman, Rhett Bomar, Nathaniel Brown, Max Hall, Nate Davis, and even Mark Sanchez are better players
Like you said earlier- whatever. I've been wrong before many a time, and so have you. Try checking your ego at the door- you're good, but not that good. I'm done with this petty bullsh***.
Why get mad? Boomer has an opinion and you do to. It's what makes football, football. I can just say keep Tim Tebow way far away from the Dolphins.
His accuracy is a little inflated at times. Vince Young also had good accuracy as far as the numbers went as did Omar Jacobs. Problem was that the actual passes themselves weren't all that difficult. Another guy who comes to mind is Matt Leinart. I bashed him senselessly for his lack of "real" accuracy. He simply laid it up there with his mediocre arm and expected it to be caught in college. Lo' and behold in the pros that wasn't enough. There are a couple of basic formulas for me that seem to decide whether a QB is successful. There are the obvious ones we review every year and then there's another that seems to also matter. Did this guy find a way to succeed with poor talent around him against touch competition? Cutler proved that he could do this, Palmer did it to some degree without the absolute pinnacle of USC talent yet to come out and Ryan to be sure did this as well. His interceptions were a major factor of having to throw so often. It really is a great imitation of the NFL. If you're accurate, experienced, have pocket presence, durability, intangibles, and you can make all or almost the throws you'll probably succeed. Another example would be Drew Brees at Purdue. He did not have sensational talent around him. Kyle Orton did not have great talent around him.
Dude, I write a checklist of the sorts of things scouts will be looking at. He scores highly on some, but on the critical ones of being an NFL passer he doesn't. This isn't based on ego, it's based on 20+ years of studying QB's and following the draft, holed up in rooms full of videotapes and then DVD's and then Tivo machines full of prospects and a computer full of data and kids from high school and miles and miles of reports and snippets of information and e-mails with scouts and recruiters and all that jazz. And that checklist gets a cursory: "don't worry, it'll be fine in a year" and "he can run a WCO". That noise you can hear is the 20+ years being flushed down the pan. It really isn't that simple.
You cant be serious. I was replying to jim1`s post that stated its going to be interesting to see where Tebow gets drafted and how well he performs in the NFL. I never said drafting was simple. For some reason you chose not to include the entire message. Dude,chill out.! You`re not gods gift to the NFL draft world. Furthermore, how do you find time to post in these forums when every G.M. in the NFL is banging down your door for advice.?
