That report says he MAY have unseated Misi as the starter.

 

Not this **** again.

IAF took snaps with the first team defense on an experimental basis. He hasn't unseated anyone.

 

Ike understands contain
he has done a great job transitioning pretty damn quickly Ashraf
its not a negative

 

I'm not saying anything against IAF, or Misi. Just saying, this isn't 100% certain. Like Desides said, he took snaps with them. That's it.

 

Oh, now this would be sweet..:D

Never know, Misi is a bit to athletic to just assume that Ikaika would be that much better than he is, but then again NO ONE thought Roth could convert to SOLB successfully..so stranger things can happen.

If I were Nolan and I had two wildly athletic SOLB's with DE experience that would allow me to be very creative in the use of formations.

Heck with Wake and Ike and Misi, they could go to the 2-4-5 from the 4-3 presnap with Ike playing DT.

 

Main, ive never seen anyone jump the gun so quickly. May i remind you that misi is still only a rookie and with some time will develop and im almost certain be the starter for years to come, if not this year.

 

Hmmmmmm...... That's surprising.

 

Wouldnt mind turning a weakness into a strength with some quality youth and depth. Im hoping these guys excede expectations.

 

think Misi will have everyone forgetting abouyt the last guy to wear 55 for this team before the third game, that kid is a baller.

Ikaika "the warrior" looked a little lost out there, especially in coverage.

 

Read the article before you title the thread....

 

Sun Sentinel: Shakeup at SLB

It's a situational thing... According to Sparano. I'd say in the BIG package probably.

 

let them compete, only the best should start

 

;)

I added a question mark to the title.

 

"That's the worst post I've ever read in my life, Muck"

"Yes, that is horrible, this post"

 

Actually my guess is that if Ikaika proves worthy in some situations and packages that Misi could be moved over to WLB in Wake's place during those situations.

So I'm not sure this is a dig on Misi at all, but rather Wake, who isn't producing this preseason like he should.

 

Misi is producing even less than Wake has.

 

I think this whole thing has gotten overblown. Sparano is just covering his bases.

Misi blows a couple of containments and all of a sudden fans believe he's barely done anything.

Look, the kid made rookie mistakes. I'll wager this isn't the first time this has happened in NFL history to an outside linebacker in his rookie season. Sparano has already praised Misi's ability to learn quickly, so I don't expect this to be an issue that lingers for that long.

 

This has more to do with Cameron Wake than Koa Misi IMO.

We don't know exactly what they're thinking, I'm not going to pretend I'm best buds with Tony Sparano or Mike Nolan and can say with authority what they're thinking about. I don't have any secret leak sending me text messages, not on this one.

I just look at what's in front of me and I see this as step one of a two-step process that sees Cameron Wake taken off the field in some situations and certain personnel packages.

Bottom line is he's not getting it done in pass rush, and unlike Koa Misi, that is what Cam Wake is THERE for. We know this guy is a one dimensional player. We've come to accept that he's about as bad as it gets in coverage, that his open field tackling is pretty atrocious, that he's not particularly good at setting the edge or doing things a linebacker needs to do when he's not pressuring the passer. We've made our peace with those facts because last year he was one of the most efficient pass rushers in the league and he flashed downright special ability to get to the passer.

Last year was last year. This year his preseason production amounts to 4 solo tackles (1 a TFL), 2 assisted tackles, ZERO QB Hurries according to the NFL gamebooks, no Passes Defensed, nothing. No sacks, not even any QB Hurries. He's played a whole lot of football this preseason too, I noticed in the Tampa game they had him out there on into the second half because they're trying to get him reps. That's not getting it done in the pass rush department, and unlike Koa Misi who is there to be from the ground-up an all around good player, Cameron Wake is there FOR THAT PASS RUSH...which has been all but non-existent thus far.

So if he's there for pass rush and you recognize he's somewhere between awful and sub-mediocre at everything else...and you're not getting that one thing out of him that he's supposed to be good at...what is he out there for? Jared Odrick and Charles Grant are getting more pressure. That's the truth. Randy Starks got a sack and he's getting pressure.

If you're not getting pass rush from the guy who is wearing the pass rush sombrero you might as well cut your losses, put Koa Misi and Ikaika Alama-Francis out there and be good at everything else. It depends on if you think Wake is going to turn it around.

 

Or:

Misi isn't getting it done well enough so Ikaika may replace him.

Nowhere has it been written, said, or intimated, that Misi has played the Will, or that Wake has disappointed, in fact Sparano pointed out Wake had 2 pressures on Matt Ryan.

 

Well that's not really true.

Koa Misi has:
5 Solo Tackles
2 Assisted Tackles
0 TFLs
0 QB Sacks
0 QB Hurries
0 Interceptions
0 Passes Defensed
0 Forced Fumbles
0 Fumble Recoveries

Cameron Wake has:
4 Solo Tackles
2 Assisted Tackles
1 TFLs
0 QB Sacks
0 QB Hurries
0 Interceptions
0 Passes Defensed
0 Forced Fumbles
0 Fumble Recoveries

Have they had a big difference in playing time? The answer is no, based on what I've seen. In fact I'm willing to bet Wake has had more playing time.

The production looks alarmingly similar and yet their positions differ greatly. Misi is thrown out into coverage a lot. He's asked to be a more heads up football player. He's asked to set the edge on the strong side of an offense, to play the Tight End and the Running Back.

Cameron Wake is there to rush the passer.

So the fact that Wake's results in that category are no more impressive than Misi's, should be a concern. Misi drops back into coverage a lot more than Wake. He is asked to play a different style.

 

Oh so now we're taking Tony Sparano at face value?

Well, fine. You win. There's no controversy at SOLB because Tony Sparano specifically said there isn't a shakeup.

Thanks.

 

You would have had a point if Misi had then moved over to the Will to take some reps..that seems to be missing from the story.

 

Someone alert the speculation police!

 

Since you seem to want to read into Sparano's words at your own convenience, here's what he ACTUALLY said.

Sure seems to imply that they might be tossing around the idea of having both Misi and Francis on the field at the same time. He distinctly left that possibility open.

 

Help me understand if what you're saying is the case, then why not just sub Wake with IAF? Why take reps away from a rookie like Misi who you want to be good at everything, if the goal is for IAF to play more than a situational pass rusher?

I'm not arguing, just confused.

 

Not necessarily. Misi is already versed in that job. He's practiced at it, they've switched the two players' responsibilities around. When there's motion and a switch to the strength of the defense, they switch around anyway. They could very well be doing exactly as Tony Sparano said, looking at BOTH of them.

 

A couple of things. One, Misi's still getting reps. Nowhere does it say he's pulled out of practice altogether. You've seen him going up against the 1's all camp long. You have a good inventory on that.

Remember when Cameron Wake was running with the second string in mini camp and everyone was panicking and upset and the world was practically going to end? Tony Sparano tried to tell us, we read TOO MUCH into these things, because we don't think like they do and the bottom line is we don't know their jobs like they do. Sparano specifically pointed out that Wake had probably the most reps of any OLB on the roster, and while the media are totally obsessed with whether they're first string or second string reps, the coaches really aren't. They're trying to build his game from the ground up, get him to recognize things, be a better all-around player. Those aren't things you need to do against first stringers.

But now the problem with Cam Wake is he's here to be a pass rusher and he's not rushing the passer. So that's why you keep his rep count against Jake Long up, because you need him to get better in that matchup, so that he can start beating other team's tackles. If you're trying to sharpen his pass rush, you need him going against Jake Long and Vernon Carey. Pass rush is extremely matchup-oriented, you have one guy lined up on another guy and one is supposed to stop the other from getting to the passer, does he do it. It does Wake no good to be brushing up those skills against the likes of Lydon Murtha or Andrew Gardner. Those aren't the kind of players he'll face on Sundays.

They know that if Koa Misi goes into the game at WOLB they're not going to get much pass rush from him. But if they're not getting that from Cam Wake then what does it matter? They'd be making that move in some situations in order to be better at other things, not because they all the sudden think Koa Misi is going to rush the passer like we hoped Cam Wake would.

Playing within the scheme, being a linebacker, those aren't so much direct matchup things as they are basic fundamentals and that's where I believe what can be important is REP COUNT, not whether it's first string or second string, etc. On the other hand, pass rush (as well as cornerback coverage) are very matchup-oriented, and so WHO you go against is much more important.

 

It seems likely that IAF will play mostly against run-blocking TEs. Since the Bills lack a receiving threat TE, the staff may have game-planning for the 1st game.

With the physical way Misi plays, it makes sense to limit his snaps against less athletic formation so he can make through his long rookie season. The goal is the playoffs so if cutting down Misi's snaps causes the defense to bend due to IAF's coverage, then the red zone defense needs to perform as well as it has in previous seasons.

 

IMO Misi has played well but specifically against the run Ike has played better. This late in camp, I think the shift is primarily to see related to game planning for Buffalo. Either way I expect that the plan all along has been for Misi to start but platoon with another SOLB. It's a big step to go to the longer season so it would be wise to have Misi split snaps all year.

As for the comparison with Wake, I haven't seen him pass rush all that much and I've seen him drop into coverage more than I expect will happen during the year. This shouldn't be a surprise since that's exactly what Sparano stated the plan for Wake was early in camp.

 

A better thread title might have been: "Things that make you go hmmm" :lol:

 

I thought Koa Misi was unquestionably better than IAF against Tampa and Jacksonville, against the run. I didn't watch the Atlanta game though.

This isn't about IAF being better than Koa Misi.

 

Exactly. This is about depth and Ike transitioning quicker than anyone would have guessed. Having them both competing is not a negative.

 

What I have seen is that both Misi and Ike do a good job of standing up the blocker and stringing out the play but Misi has more of a tendency to let the blocker get outside leverage if the runner fakes inside.

Against Atlanta Misi had a couple of notable plays where he was in good position but bit on a fake to the inside and let Turner beat him around the edge. IIRC he did the identical thing against some really quick rb in one of the first two preseason games. I only remember b/c the announcers were commenting that Misi never saw anybody that quick in college. It may be a pattern that Misi has shown in camp that is translating to the games.

 

Could be about that. Not sure. What I think in the end is this is about the same instinct that Bill Parcells has instilled in Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano and which I'm sure Bill Sheridan shares and that is "Bigger = Better".

This is classic planet theory stuff. You have a guy that is bigger and stronger and athletic enough that he's not showing some of the classic weaknesses that most bigger and stronger players show when they try and play that position. His head still isn't anywhere close to where I could feel comfortable with it but he's huge. It's the Matt Roth dilemma.

 

Maurice Jones-Drew. And the issue there was he just underestimated MJD's speed to the outside once he bounced it out. He was backed up a little bit eyeing the inside to help contain and when MJD bounced outside he actually jumped very aggressively and showed good burst to close that outside lane, but he'd given MJD too much spacing and it should have been a learning experience. He got MJD's ankle and managed to make him stumble which gave Yeremiah the time to get there and tackle him for barely any gain.

That was one that Bob Griese actually called right. He just underestimated MJD's speed. It's not Joseph Turner and Harvey Unga anymore.

The issue I took when I really dug into IAF's tape against Tampa and Jacksonville is that on so many plays, he's basically flying blind. And that's what concerned me about him in Detroit as well.

 

The ones against Turner were slow developing plays where Turner was being patient. Misi was mirroring him pretty well with the blocker between him Misi and Turner. It looked like it should be a stop for little to no gain and then Turner would juke inside, Misi would aggressively attack inside and then Turner would scoot around the end for 8 or 9 yards.

 

More learning experiences. But I don't want him to lose that aggression.

 

Misi gave the edge a few times to many on Friday. Enough to get a mention from Sparano in the presser. This is probably just a warning shot though, he's played well otherwise.

 

Ikaika is still running with the 1's...

And Wake is still the WLB.