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Alex Smith or Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Shane Falco, Jan 9, 2016.

  1. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    So very true, and also have never been involved with any type of sport, because anyone who has knows how powerful intangibles are.

    It's amazing that a person could say that with Landry running around doing what he's doing, that kid is all intangibles.
     
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Aaron Rodgers doesn't have the Glerfunber Factor. I don't have to define it or quantify it. I can just declare he doesn't have it and then claim that's the one thing keeping him from being the greatest of all time. It cannot be argued. Intangibles.
     
  3. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    lol, go ahead and track me up some "never quit" then.
     
  4. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    You definitely have the Glerbfunber factor though.
     
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You think?

    Prove it.
     
  6. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Man you have really fallen off the wagon in regards to posting.

    There is a reason every true evaluator, coaches GMs, hell...anyone who understands the game of football knows the intangibles not only exist but they are critical especially the quarterback position.

    Carry on though


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  7. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    You're still caught up in that erroneous idea that a negative proves a positive I see, good luck with that.
     
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Huh?

    My idea is that if you wanna argue stuff and be taken seriously, then you should probably be able to define just what in the hell you're talking about. You seem to have a chronic problem with that.
     
  9. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Every sport, which is very telling as far as these 2 go, and explains quite a bit, neither guy has ever been involved with sports or else they would be very aware of it.
     
  10. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Or is it a lack of ability to understand on your part...?

    You think determination doesn't exist, because it's intangible, you think that the "never say die" attitude doesn't exist because it's intangible, you think that playing with "reckless abandon" doesn't exist because it's intangible, you think leadership doesn't exist because it's intangible.

    How about faith, hope, love and charity? all intangibles.
     
  11. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I cant prove Jesus Christ exists either, guess i need to change my beliefs.


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  12. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    Except this game was in Foxboro. How did Tannehill play in Foxboro this year? Remember that blow out loss? Alex Smith made it close in a place where it is near impossible to win especially come playoff time. Smith beat the pats at home last season too. The Dolphins D gets most credit for that win BTW. Holding the Pats to 10 points. Brady and their offense could hardly do anything that day.
     
  13. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    Funny how you guys want to talk about the whole career of Alex Smith but only one to talk about this past season for Aaron Rodgers. Can't have it both ways.
     
  14. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    The ultimate definition of a homer. Probably was one of those guys that was all for Chad Henne too.
     
  15. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I'm OK with being a homer, some of our better posters are admitted ones.

    But when you take it to extreme levels and continually contradict yourself and your belief on what makes a quarterback a good quarterback but I simply can't take your opinion seriously.

    The same guys bringing the numbers into this discussion would change their tune in the drop of a hat if I decided to bring Matt Stafford in the conversation.

    It's ever-changing reasoning to fit one single agenda.


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  16. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning, Blake Bortles, Matthew Stafford all threw the ball more than Tannehill did and had better completion percentage and QBR as well. Didn't seem to effect them in the worse way. And all these teams except the Cardinals have bad offensive lines and little support from their run game. Other quarterbacks go through the exact same thing. And they are playing at a higher level. So much for the excuses. You whine more than a girl scout kid.
     
  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yep, you got me. I've never played organized spurts, I'm just a fat-*** who sits around in the Internet all day.

    Why don't you give the intangibles that Tannehill doesn't possess that other QBs do possess.

    You know, actually post something substantive, instead of just mocking those who disagree with am ill-defined premise.
     
  18. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    No one is saying Rogers isn't good or that Tannehill is better. The argument is that this past year things have fallen apart around Rogers so he is having a down year (for his standard). Yet people don't accept the idea that things have been falling apart around Tannehill during his full, short career and it affects his play.

    The bottom line to all of this is simply that the Dolphins haven't won enough games for people's liking and some people blame it on Tannehill. Some of them admit it, and some refuse to admit it and point out every visible or invisible flaw Tannehill has. Now people are propping up Alex Smith (a perennial underachiever) and comparing him to Tannehill and even going as far to say that he is better. And whether they admit it or not, they say that because Smith was (very briefly) in the playoffs and Tannehill to this date hasn't been there.

    Smith is being praised for his intangibles but those intangibles have been developing 8 years longer than Tannehills.....ignored. Smith plays on a team with a top defense.....ignored.
    The Chiefs rush the ball effectively while the Dolphins are last in the league in that regard.....ignored.
    Alex Smith (who has only recently been even decent) has been tutored by Harbaugh and Andy Reid and Tannehill had Joe Philbin and Zack Taylor......ignored.

    The only thing that I see Smith being better at is he runs a more to keep things alive. But Smith looked helpless unless he was tucking it to keep it alive. He missed multiple throws to Kelce in the endzone and I saw about 3 other downfield throws that weren't even close. He had somewhere a 5 ypa.
     
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  19. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Intangibles don't exist. Zach Thomas was one of the best because of his height, and speed.
     
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  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The Dolphins were last in the league in rushing attempts.

    Pound sand.

    Don't let facts get in the way of a good insult though, right?
     
  21. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    What did Aaron Rogers have to do with this?
     
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  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Leadership. Charisma. Dedication. Being a good teammate. Motivation. Vision. Awareness on the football field.

    Quick, name the standardized measurements for those.
     
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  23. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    Yeah buddy garbage time. You going to try and act like you don't know what that means? Let me draw it out for you then. First game against the Bills this year was a great example of Tannehill thriving in garbage time. Team lost 41-14. Being down 27-0 late in the game and then 34-8 is when Tannehill got a bunch of his yards and threw 2 TD passes to Matthews when the Bills D starting sagging off and sent in back ups. The game was late and long over. Tannehill ends the day with 297 yards and 2 TD passes after being shut down for most of the game. Garbage time. I was at this game by the way. It was pathetic.

    Best example of the year is the second game against the Jets. The team is down 35-7 in the 4th quarter. Tannehill and the offense had been getting shut down all game. Tannehill gets 2 TD passes in the 4th quarter when the game is over and the other team is sagging off and resting players. Racks up a bunch of yards as well. Tannehill ends the day with 351 yards and 3 TDs. Now if you look at the box score and if you're just a stat looker like some of you are you could say wow what a great game against that Jets D. But those are garbage time stats. He racked up a bunch of meaningless yards and 2 TDs in garbage time.

    The game against the Pats in Foxboro. 36-7 loss. Tannehill gets a bunch of yards in the 4th quarter. Throws for over 100 yards in the 4th quarter. The game was over mid way through the 3rd. Gets a quarter and a half to pad his stats. Once again padding his stats in garbage time.

    Second game against the Bills. Down 33-14 in the 4th quarter. Tannehill racks up more yards in garbage time. About 70 of his yards came in that span. Padding stats.

    Against the Chargers. Down 23-0 in the 4th quarter. Tannehill racks up more meaningless yards when the game is over and the D starts resting players and sagging off.

    First game against the Jets down 27-7 in the 4th quarter. Tannehill racks up some yards and gets another garbage time TD pass.

    That is at least 6 games where he is getting garbage time yards and TD passes. Probably more than any quarterback in the league. In these games the team was getting shut down and Tannehill had nothing to show for it until he got garbage time to throw for some TD passes and rack up meaningless yards. In all of these games the majority of his yards and TD passes came in garbage time.

    Alex Smith and other QBs don't have the garbage time to pad stats. They are in winnable games. And when they do get blow out wins they start running the ball to run out clock and end the game.

    As I have said all year the garbage time is one thing to look at when looking at Tannehill's stats. Its an asterisk. Without the garbage time much of his stats aren't even there.
     
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  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You can certainly track most of those in some way. You can identify things that make someone a good leader. You can identify things that give someone charisma. You can identify things that show someone is dedicated. You can identify things that show someone is a good teammate. You can identify things that show someone is motivated. You can identify things that demonstrate someone has vision. You can identify things that show awareness.

    If we could not identify these things, then we could not define them. We wouldn't have "leadership qualities," and we couldn't develop people into better leaders.
     
  25. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    Resnor likes to bring up his off year all the time and say that is what happens when you have a bad offensive line. Like he does with the injured Andrew Luck this year. Even though Rodgers and Luck have always had a bad offensive line and are HOF bound. Rodgers still had a solid year. 31 TD passes and 8 picks. Just not a typical year for him. So he only wants to talk about this past season regarding those two. But when it comes to Alex smith and Derek Carr he wants to talk about their whole career. He cherry picks.
     
  26. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    Rodgers has always played behind a bad offensive line. Rodgers top 3 WRs were hurt during the year. 2 of them pretty much the entire season. I could only imagine how much worse Tannehill would look if his top 3 wide outs were out and 2 of them most of the year. Injuries. And thats not to say a player can't have a down year. Using this year in regards to Rodgers and Luck to prove a point is absurd. Both of these guys have excelled and are HOF bound. Luck was injured. Rodgers had injuries to his team and just had one off year. This past year for both of them is an anomaly. So trying to prove a point by using this past season is useless.
     
  27. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Are you missing the point or what? So you're telling me that even HoFers are affected (to varying degrees) by their surroundings?!!!

    Offensive line isn't the only thing Tannehill was missing last year. And Tannehill was banged up this year too.

    And this leadership thing? Tannehill took a beating behind that Oline all year long to the point that he was pissing blood. I can't recall him ever complaining. Even when he didn't need to play, he played. He never quit. That is leadership.
     
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  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can't rate them on a standard scale. Hence, intangibles. Of course you can recognize them and value them. That's why some players fall down draft boards and others move up.
     
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  29. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    This is another thing I can't stand from the Tannehill crowd. They act like Tannehill has been on some historically bad teams since he has been in the NFL. As if he has it so much harder than any other QB in the league. The 3 seasons prior to this one he wasn't even on a bad team. He had been on an average 8-8 team that just missed the playoffs. 1-2 more games and the team is in the playoffs. Middle of the road average team. Because I'm sure he would flourish on one of those teams in the bottom of the NFL right? People want to talk about the defense, WRs, RBs, coaches, or whoever else. Coaches get fired every year around the NFL. Miami isn't the only place with an incompetent coaching staff.

    I'm sure Tannnehill would be so much better off on that 1-15 Dolphins squad in 2007. Or how about that 0-16 Detroit Lions team? Do these people think its easier to play for the Bucs, Browns, Titans, Chargers, Saints, Jaguars, Raiders, Eagles, Lions, Bears, Rams, or 49ers?

    This team up until this year was an average 8-8 team just outside of the playoffs. But they are quick to act like he has been put into the worst situation in the NFL and he is surrounded by some historically bad talent. There are plenty of worse situations around the league the 3 previous years. Even this year they still weren't a top 5 worse record in the NFL.

    Lamar Miller is a solid RB. To start the year people were raving about how this wide receiver group would be so much better than Mike Wallace. Stills had nearly 1,000 yards in New Orleans. Landry is solid and Matthews turned out to be a play maker this year. Now you have another talented player in Devante Parker with lots of promise. You have a pro bowl tight end in Jordan Cameron. This isn't a below average set of skill players. Its better than what Brady has in New England and Wilson has in Seattle. Brady is throwing to 5'8 white guys. He has a great tight end but that is it. And who is the RB? Just a bunch of no name guys and nothing special in Blount.

    What pro bowl wide receiver is Wilson throwing to? What about Carson Palmer? I don't see a Julio Jones or Dez Bryant on their teams. Unless if you want to count an old Fitzgerald. The Dolphins talent at RB, WR, and TE is comparable if not better than what these QBs have. What WR is Rivers throwing to in San Diego? Derek Carr in Oakland? A young rookie and a reject in Michael Crabtree?

    The excuses and complaining is ridiculous. Especially when his first 3 years in the NFL the team is a middle of the road average team at 8-8. But they all want to claim he is put in a worse position more than any other QB in the league. Because I'm sure Tannehill would thrive anywhere else but Miami.
     
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  30. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    The point is these two QBs have played with bad offensive lines their entire careers and have excelled. Using just this past season to prove a point is faulty. I don't recall Tannehill ever being out with an injury. Sorry.

    Never quit? Who quits? Who walks off the field and just quits? Well besides Mike Wallace. You think that defines leadership? No its talking to your players out on the field, talking to them on the side line and getting them pumped instead of standing off by yourself with a goofy smile on, saying something more in the huddle other than just the play call, holding players accountable, and not arguing with the practice squad. There is more to leadership than just playing the game and not quitting.
     
  31. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Ronald Reagan didn't play in the nfl
     
  32. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's not leadership. That might gain respect from some teammates but it isn't leadership. Taking a beating, shows you are tough. Tannehill could be the toughest mofo on the block, and be the biggest ******** in the locker room.

    He isn't, but I'm saying, taking a beating doesn't make you a leader. Being a leader is going into that huddle and saying, we're going to f**king score a TD now, and they do it, led by him.
     
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  33. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have no clue what you are referring to. I know you staked your claim earlier this year when declaring Tanny firmly in the top 10 (at least I remember that) based off the Jax game, but it's okay to back off that a little ...
     
  34. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Miamis offensive line is much worse than seattles. Wilson holds the ball so long is the only reason his line gets ranks as low
     
  35. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I'm not backing off. He's a top ten QB playing behind a 30th offensive line. When we fix the oline you'll see how good he is. Lets see how good your boy Wilson is today against Carolinas depleted secondary. He should put up great numbers.
     
  36. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Can i use this thread to vent about us not waiting for Mike Shula?? Calling a brilliant game per usual


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  37. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah as others have pointed out this isn't true even in the slightest. Consciousness is probably the best example where you can name something everyone assumes exists but not measure it, track it or observe it independently. This is true with individual sensations too. You can name colors like "green" and "red" but no one knows how your sensation of what you call "green" compares to that of another person (especially someone with red-green blindness), meaning there's no way to measure the sensation itself, or "track it".

    Also, every stat throws away information, so unless the stats allow you to perfectly recreate the observations you summarized with stats (in this case, it's the entire football game you see with your eyes), then for any set of stats there MUST be a set of intangibles (given the stats you're using).

    So I suggest you go a different route with your argument.
     
  38. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    There can be no true dispair without hope.


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  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What was your old name, Phins?

    Frankly, I rarely being up Rodgers, other than to use him as an example of how even the best in the game are affected by poor oline play. That's not even remotely comparing Tannehill to Rodgers.

    Clearly you were here before under a different name, and I can only assume you were banned for your antagonizing antics.
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Cbrad, I'm going to stand by my "intangibles are BS" argument, for a couple reasons.

    1. Since we can identify them, and can identify ways to validate their existence, then they simply aren't "intangible."

    2. The "intangibles" argument is perfect for the anti-Tannehill guys. They have been unsuccessful in arguing different stats, so now they go to this nebulous "intangibles" argument, for which they can't really provide proof, and therefore, they can't be successfully argued with.
     
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