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Alex Smith or Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Shane Falco, Jan 9, 2016.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So, is it your contention that Akili Smith and Tim Couch were good QBs that were ruined by their situation? Or do you believe that they were bad QBs who added their own contribution to an already bad situation? Is it your contention that Akili and Tim were as good as Tannehill?

    Did they face all the obstacles that Tannehill has? Tannehill has played decent football, despite the obstacles, yet people want him gone because he hasn't played elite level football on a team full of poor players.

    Let's finally start being honest about this.
     
  2. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There are some things that Ryan needs to be held accountable for but I tend to blame a ton of our offensive issues on the garbage oline that we've had. Coaching has been awful too, I think its obvious that Philbin was a coward and didn't bring in the right guys to coach up Tannehill. If the reports are accurate out there then Philbin never wanted Tannehill then frankly we should have made the choice between Tannehill and Philbin right then and there. If I was an owner and the coach told me he wanted Carr, I'd either have fired Philbin or drafted Carr and traded Tannehill. We have had one of the most disfunctional teams from the front office to coaching and its hard to imagine a Qb outside of HOF greats like Marino, Rodgers, Brady, etc. succeeding under the circumstances that Ryan has had to deal with.

    Ryan deserves some blame for inconsistent play, taking some bad sacks, playing poorly in some of our bigger games, etc. He does deserve some of the blame. I also believe he deserves the next season with this coaching staff and some new talent around him to prove he can play. If he improves next year all of this talk goes away, if not we move on.
     
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  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I agree with all of that.

    Is a reasonable, balanced look at the the situation.
     
  4. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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  5. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Not at all. Tim Couch was a mental midget who was babied by Chris Palmer via the media and who almost cried when talking about how the fans boo'd him. He also showed flashes in the opinion of many fans but ultimately you can't be a pu--y and be a good QB in the NFL. Akili Smith had one good year in college and was overdrafted into one of the worst situations possible east of Oakland.

    Who WANTS him gone? He will have 2016 to show some signs of breaking out of this cycle of inconsistency or he will be a goner barring a generous restructure. It's really that simple.

    And I have been honest about my opinion. You guys just want to focus on the fact that I'm not giving him a free pass because of his circumstances.

    Do you think I want the QB of my fav team to be average?? Do you think I want to watch a mediocre team every Sunday for another 15 years? I am giving as honest of an opinion as I can and only a handful of you think Im being to harsh...you would rather pretend the guy who called him a top 6 QB in the league is more reasonable...and that is because thats want you WANT to believe.
     
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  6. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 2022 Mother's Day and May Flowers!

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    Alex Smith as he can run and pass. Hands down!
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not to many folks seemingly know how to put 500 yards of rushing into proper context when evaluating the qb..
     
  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No...it's that many are pointing out that Smith is in his 11th year. I didn't hear people calling for the Dolphins to acquire Alex Smith when he was last available. Further, no one has disputed the notion that Tannehill should run more.
     
  10. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I remember getting into heated debates about disasters like Fielder, Lucas, Wannestadt, etc. most fans are wrong most of the time lol. I'm certainly no exception :)
     
  11. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All fair.
     
  12. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't always agree with rafael but I wouldn't lump him in, right there. He's a fair poster even if a bit condescending at times.
     
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  13. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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  15. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's the whole point of Stringer's service and Monst' post. You have so many mistakes, when you delete them all there won't be many posts left. :D
     
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  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I have two mistakes. I was wrong about Philbin and I was wrong that Wallace would never fight for the ball. And I wouldn't delete them, because unlike you and the rest, I have the sack and fortitude to admit when I'm wrong. It doesn't scare me to be wrong.
     
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  17. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Its nice but really his lack of producing TDs has always been his downfall. You saw in the game last week that if they don't play with the lead or get special teams/defensive scoring help he can't put up points consistently. I'd take a Qb that can't run over Alex Smith who can't throw deep. He hasn't played on great, great teams by any stretch but he's never going to take a team to the Superbowl because at the end of the day you have to win playoff games as a Qb throwing the ball and making big plays. He's a game manager who checks down way too much. He's also playing for a coach who has had a lot of success with Qbs and offense.
     
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  18. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Rather have Alex Smith no question.
     
  19. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    I don't believe you're that dumb Resnor. You call that garbage time? Wilson brought the team back to a one score game. All those games I gave examples of Tannehill padding his stats in garbage time were all 3 or 4 possession games late in the game and tannehill didn't bring the team back to a one score game. I don't think you're that dumb. I think anyone can distinguish what garbage time is. Surely you can. I will chalk this one up to you being a troll again. Surely even you know what garbage time is.
     
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  20. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    Really? Because these last two years I haven't seen leadership, a pro bowl appearance, or elite play from him.
     
  21. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    You bring him and Luck up all the time. I don't see anyone using their offensive line as an excuse. Ever since they've been in the league they've had bad offensive line play in front of them. They still play at elite level. Using this season as an example is a poor assessment on your part. Luck was injured and Rodgers just had a down year. They've always excelled even with bad offensive lines. What antics are you referring to? Seems to me anytime someone says something negative about Tannehill you get your feelings hurt. Instead how about you refute my posts. You've barely addressed any of them. How does Tannehill have it more difficult then anyone else in the league when he has been on an 8-8 team his first 3 years that just missed the playoffs? About half the league has a more difficult time winning footballs games than the Dolphins. How is the talent at RB, TE, and WR poor? What pro bowl WRs are Brady, Newton, Palmer, Rivers, or Wilson throwing to? What historicly bad teams has Tannehill been apart of? Is it really easier playing for the Browns, Raiders, Rams, Eagles, Redskins, Chargers, Bucs, Titans, or Saints? Or the other teams that have a worse record or comparable record than Miami these last 4 years? Is that really you're argument? No one has it harder than Tannehill? Sorry but that just sounds like making excuses. His first 3 years in the league he wasn't even on a bad team. They were 8-8. An average team just outside of the playoffs. Their are plenty of worse situations in the NFL.
     
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  22. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    That is a very good post. The top 1-2 QB's taken always go to really bad teams, hence they pick that early. The Dolphins got Tannehill middle of the pack which means the team was middle of the road in quality. One could argue that he has made them worse, since their record has decreased.
     
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  23. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Really? How many times (during the last game) did you hear about Rodger's OL being the problem THIS year. That game was the first time they had played together as a group since the beginning of the season.

    How was Luck injured? He was getting smacked every game. They brought in some old FAs and didn't fix their OL.

    What does overall record the past two years have to do with the line play THIS year? Last in the League in run blocking and one of the worst in pass blocking. How can you just ignore that. The talent at RB is not poor- the play calling was.
    The talent is not poor at WR... just our main FA there did not perform. The TE talent did not perform as was expected. All teams deal with those kinds of problems tho. Brady is throwing to Gronk and Edelmann. Cam is throwing to Olsen. Palmer has Fitzgerald and a couple WR just as good. Wilson has Graham to throw to and Lynch to give it to. Yes... the OL is almost historically bad. At least for this team's expectations.
    The problem has not been Tannehill.
    The problem has not been the RB.
    The problem has not been the WR.
    The problem has not been the TE.

    The problems at this moment in time are the OL and the defense. Fix them. A blind man could see that.
     
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The Dolphins did not pick middle of the pack. We picked him at #8. Picking in the Top 10 is not middle of the pack. Wilson was taken in the 3rd round.
     
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  25. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    I just re-watched the Chargers game from a few weeks ago. I watched that particular game because I remember the offense being nothing more than a huge disappointment. I watched every play trying to see why we were so ineffective. As a noted Tannehill supporter (NOT HOMER) it was eye opening, even to me. Its a perfect example of WHY I believe Tannehill receives way too much of the blame.

    Third and long was the story right off the bat. Negative yards on rushing attempts, OL penalties, and short designed passes that go nowhere. Tannehill needs to convert more though, right? Agreed....but the play designs on the 3rd and long conversion attempts were just unbelievable to watch. Receivers running "in" routes 3-4 yards short of the sticks, a "give up" hand-off on 3rd and 15, 3rd and 11... receivers run 8 yard routes, on a 3rd and 6 Stills jumps for no reason to catch the ball and gets pushed out of bounds.

    During this game Albert goes out, Pouncey goes out, Fox is being beaten and holding, Dallas Thomas is "playing LT", a rookie playing out of place at center. Tannehill absorbs an enormous shot (illegal if you ask me) by Ingram, then another one via blindside. He's hurt, pisses blood some time after the game. Just before half time he couldn't even throw the ball properly.

    During the first half the Chargers score points drive after drive (23 points).

    The first drive of the 3rd ends with a BANG....literally, a sack. Next possession ends at 3rd and 18 after a holding call. Next drive a TD! But this only leads us to the inevitable "empty stats" or "volume stats" and according to some posters anything Tannehill achieves later in the game is just considered "garbage time".

    Some would say they lost because Tannehill couldn't "will" his way to a victory, wasn't "clutch" or didn't "convert enough 3rd downs", isn't enough of a "vocal leader", hasn't been able to "hone his craft in correlation to his full skillset and run when it presents itself" (love ya DJ!)....

    But in REALITY it's just a one game example of how an utterly pathetic coaching staff, a terrible offensive line and a PoS defense contributes to a still developing QB being blamed for the amount of losses this team continues to endure.
     
  26. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  27. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Turn on the Ravens game, and tell me what you see....he recieved some very food protection and was allowed more freedom at LOS.

    Ryan may be the 4th or 5th thing wrong with this team, but he isnt exactly lighting the league on fire even in the best of circumstances.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  28. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Oh I don't know......a PERFECT example of what a running game and a defense can do to help a team win!
     
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  29. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    How would you know what the debates were about the last two years if you only joined last month. Seems like you know quite a lot of the history here. Telling resnor he brings up luck alot. So who were you before you got banned?
     
  30. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    Jimmy Graham was out half the year and didn't fit their offense. Fitzgerald is old and wasn't doing much last season when Palmer went down with an injury and these other guys you speak of are just a bunch of average receivers. No big names. None of them are pro bowl elite WRs. Cam has Olsen and that is it. His best WR is.....Ted Gin jr. Yeah that bust that used to play in Miami. That's all Cam has. Edelman? He isn't a top WR in the league. Who is the more talented WR Jarvis Landry or Edelman? Which one would you take? Matthews and Parker have shown they are play makers as well. Jordan Cameron is a pro bowl tight end but Tannehill doesn't give him the ball. This group along with Stills is better than most of the league. Greg Jennings didn't work out. So what? You've still got all this other talent along with Lamar Miller. You and I agree WR, RB, and TE aren't the problem but Resnor is going around telling everyone the team is below average in all these areas. The Dolphins were 8-8 and just outside of the playoffs Tannehills first 3 years in the league. There is about half the league that has had more trouble winning games than the Dolphins the last 4 years. But you guys act like he has it worse than everyone else and only he is on a team that has struggles. It's just such a weak cop out by you guys. He doesn't have it harder than everyone else. Stop with the excuses.
     
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  31. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    I've been here over a month dude. I've seen many threads on this subject. There is a new one almost everyday. I don't need to see any threads from 2 years ago or whatever you're talking about. So that's how you guys roll? When someone comes up in here with facts disputing all your excuses you get your feelings hurt and want them banned? That's weak. Instead how about just refute what I'm saying.
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's simple.

    If you've been here a month, then you haven't seen me bringing up Luck and Rodgers a whole lot. I sometimes refer to their teams, and how they can be affected.

    Receiver hasn't been a problem? GTFO. Hartline, Bess, Nanee to start out with? This year he had some decent options. Wallace was never a good fit. Cameron had some big drops, maybe that's why he wasn't getting the ball, that, or he was constantly blocking on the ****ty screens we ran constantly. His oline is ****, always has been.

    You're not using any facts to refute "excuses." All I, and a few others on here, have done, is argue that the main problem is the oline. Tannehill can work with average receivers, but he needs am oline. Things that are "reasons" should not be dismissed as "excuses."

    By the way, please show me the QB that has been successful when from the moment he was drafted, he had poor coaching, terrible oline, poor defense, average or worse receivers, no audible, and an abandoned run game. Stop acting like we're making **** up. These are facts. You're literally asking the developing QB to overcome major obstacles in every facet of the team, and then *****ing when he can't. It's ludicrous.

    And I don't buy for one minute that you've only been here a month.
     
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  33. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    So now its about the team and not how well Ryan played.

    I see.

    Just be objective


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's always been about the team.

    You guys are the ones who've always wanted to make it only about Tannehill.
     
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  35. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Those are not facts, those are opinions. Google the difference. And it doesnt matter if I or anyone else agree on some, its NOT a fact.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  36. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    What's this thread title?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  37. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    His previous "evaluation" was on how well Ryan played despite 'X'


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  38. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Alex Smith or Ryan Tannehill....

    Smith
     
  39. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    No it wasn't. You missed the entire point.
     
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  40. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Tannehill is even when it is 3rd and whatever, I have little confidence he will pick it up. Anything over 3rd and 4 I expect a punt. I will say the last 2 games he did some nice things, but the Patriots game was a scrimmage for them. So I am not sure how much water that game holds.
     

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