2002 he was amazing, 1800+ yards and 4.8ypc. Its 2003 where it took him a lot of carries to get a lot of yardage and his ypc was a below average 3.5. He had one great year, I agree that he was a tad over-rated by your fanbase. A Jet killer in those 2 years, nonetheless.
don't like to talk too much about the Icons I think it's like talking about someone's wife or girlfriend very bad medicine, having said that: I think Zach is the top @ MLB, Ricky Williams is in the running & still has an opportunity to regain his status & will surpass all records held by the team if he continues to play @ his present level. Jason Taylor is our #1 DE & like Ricky still in the mix. like to point out we have a number of developing Icons on the current roster. three years & a few championships from now, the list may look little bit different
Gotcha. I feel all were justified, and most people are dead wrong about RW. I'd take RW in his heyday over any other RB in Dolphins history. He was the best the Phins ever had... IMHO. IF we weren't talking about one of the best seasons a RB has ever had, and a coach in Wanny who completely mishandled the whole situation, I would agree. I used to suffer pretty badly from social anxiety. I got over it in my own way. If you've never had to deal with it, consider yourself lucky... and, you have absolutely no clue how difficult it is to deal with. I can't imagine trying to deal with it with cameras in your face all day. Honestly, I can't say I wouldn't have done the same exact thing Ricky did.
I kind of think Bob Matheson deserves to be on the list since the famous 53 defense was designed to utilize his play and skills. His number was 53 and thats why the defense was called the 53 defense.
Hmmm... Great thoughts on this..and some great comments... Taking this one step further....these are our current players I feel have a shot at making that list at some point in their careers... QB - Chad Henne QB - Chad Pennington I think Chad Henne is going to be by far our second best QB..thats just a prediction of mine...but alot of that has to o with Chad Pennington, which is why I listed him as well. He will probably only start two seasons for us...but the impact he is having on Chad Henne, and the rest of the team is so important in so many ways you cant measure with a stat, in my mind he will always be a beloved Dolphin. WR - Devone Bess - Of all of our recievers...this guy will go down as being one of our best. Teddy's gonna be good...but not "All Time Good". Bess's ability to create space, run amazing routes, and catch everything thrown his way...will put him right there eventually with Clayton, Duper, McDuffie... LT - Jake Long - Probably an obvious choice being a number one pick...but hes a stud now and will be one for a long time to come. K - The one guy I think has a chance to be the best Phin ever to play his position, Dan Carpenter. He's got a cannon for a leg, never misses....and has that "Tom Brady" ice like confidence in his veins. He's our Adam Vinetieri...I think Dan Carpenter will eventually take the top spot.
Interesting. The QB group would be hard to crack b/c Griese was part of the SBs and Marino one of the best ever. The same with the WRs. I love Bess but Warfield was one of the best ever and part of the SBs and Duper and Clayton were just incredible. Long, IMO has the talent to as good or better than Webb. If he can help produce some team accomplishments than he could become our top T ever. I don't know I have as lofty an opinion of Carpenter. I like him but I really haven't thought of him as an all-time great. I don't think his competition is insurmountable though.
Long has the talent to be much better than Webb. Even if Long never becomes the pass blocking that Webb was, he is already 10x the run blocker
on our current team: Pennington, Williams, Taylor, Long & Porter all have a real chance to become Dolphin Icons. didn't mean to pass anyone over, there certainly is a lot of talent on the team but these guys are serious contenders in my book & @ least two of them are already there. by the way: BillParcells will have a monument erected @ our Stadium in his honor on the completion of the rebuilding of the franchise & attainment of the SuperBowl trophy. He will go down next to Don Shula as a Master of the Game & true Dolphin Hero.
I am going to take a little positon flexibilty with my all-time team. I will go with a three wide, because we have never really had a tight end that deserves "all-time" status. I will take a couple other liberties, and use a couple back-up spots on offense and defense. This is basically a one deep team though. Safety - Dick Anderson, Jake Scott Cornerback - Sam Madison, Patrick Surtain Linbacker - Zach Thomas, John Offerdahl, Nick Buoniconti, Bryan Cox Defensive End - Bill Stanfill, Jason Taylor Defensive Tackle - Bob Baumhower, Tim Bowens, Manny Fernandez Quarterback - Dan Marino, Bob Griese Running Back - Larry Csonka, Jim Kiick, Mercury Morris Wide Receiver - Paul Warfield, Mark Clayton, Mark Duper Lineman - Dwight Stephenson, Larry Little, Jim Langer, Bob Kuechenberg, Richmond Webb Punter - Reggie Roby Kicker - Garo Yepremian
If talent or potential were enough than RW would definitely deserve to be on the list, but in the end he produced one great year. It goes down as a great individual accomplishment. There weren't many notable team accomplishments during his tenure. They made the playoffs once with him as a back-up running back. Whether it was his fault or not or whether it was just bad luck his contributions to Dolphin history were few. He's high among our all-time rushers but the standard is low b/c we haven't had any long tenured running backs. He's only about 500 yards ahead of Brown, probably less if you included receiving yards. I just don't see enough there to include him above others who were part of notable team accomplishments. RW is a like-able guy. He came in with all the potential in the world. And many people, including myself, don't believe that pot smoking should be illegal. So people want to cheer for him. I've even seen some suggest that he could make it to the HOF. But reality is that he hasn't down much in the league to warrant that kind of consideration. He's basically been a less successful Jamal Lewis. I also think that you may over-rate him b/c you can relate to his affliction.
2009 will be the measure of Williams if he has a great year, an outstanding year, all bets are off Williams is a once a decade talent @ RB & may just have more rubber to burn He is the RealDeal, a ProvenBull & Franchise Running Back. I wouldn't count him out. BillParcells certainly hasn't.
I have never been a fan of judging indivisual players on team accomplishments. Mostly because football is such a team sport. If Tom Brady was on a crappy team, they would not of won so many superbowls. Even if the quarterback is the best of all time, if he doesn't have the right pieces in place, he isn't going to win many games.
I think it has to be part of it b/c it's a team game. If Brady had the stats but not the SBs and playoffs his legacy would be lesser. It's not everything but its part of every player's legacy to their team. The other thing is that the length of time and capacity that the player contributed to the team matters. For example, Wes Welker was/is a great talent but he was with the team only three years or so and only made notable contributions two of those. And as much of a fan favorite as he was while here, he doesn't rate high on any Phins all-time list b/c he didn't contribute much to the franchise in the big scheme of things. (He also wasn't part of any significant team accomplishments, as addressed in paragraph 1).
I expect he'll contribute less this year than last. I think Brown will get a few more touches both b/c his knee is fully healed and I think he may get used more in the passing game. And I think Cobbs will cut into RW's playing time as well.
Like any disease or disorder, it's not an on-or-off issue, but varying degrees of intensity/progression. Not commenting at all about the severity of the SAD you had, just saying that because you were able to handle it, doesn't mean someone else can. Plus, different people have different supportive environments which allow he/she to stay the course a little better than others.
That is one of the reasons I do not think so highly of Wes Welker because he is more of a product of a system. Myself I think great players are players who are great in any system or they build a system around them. I also do not like adding in the team element when thinking of how good of a player is because it really adds luck into who is the best player arguements. Football is a team sport, however it is is also indivisual players. The indivisual player does not have any effect on who is brought on the team or who is coaching the team. Judging a player on team success is adding in the coaches, the GMs, the owner and his teammates to his accomplishments. When I think of a great player he would be a great player if he was a Patriot or if he was a Raider. It is one of the reasons I applaud Top 10 for having the Saints Linebacking corps as the greatest linebacking corps of all-time even without having great team accomplishments. If they had the 49ers offensive system, they would have had their superbowls and team accomplishments. It is not the linebacking corps fault that the GMs and Mora couldn't build an offense to get them into the superbowl or bring in a decent secondary or defensive linemen.
I am not saying I was able to handle it. I am just saying it doesn't excuse me from the mistakes that I made. Even with SAD, I am responsible for my actions and decisions.
When I think of an all-time phins list I don't consider whether if he would have made a great Raider or Patriot b/c its about what he did for the phins. If it were just about talent or a greatest players then my list might be different. I might have Seau or Hugh Green for example. They were great players but not really great players for the phins. They really didn't add much to the team legacy.
I consider both. I consider a hypothetical if they played on another team, would they have done as well and what they did for the phins. Great players are great players no matter where they play. That is why I have John Offerdaul high on my list of favorite Dolphins. He played on a HORRIBLE defense and still played well. He would be known as one of the best of all-time if he had good front four in front of him. I also feel if he was on any team in the league, he would be amazing.
I have Offerdahl on my list as well, but unlike RW he was a starter and played at a high level for Miami for 8 years. He also contributed to a couple os post-season appearances as a starter. That's apples and oranges to RW who started two seasons (0 post-season appearances) and was a back-up for a few more seasons (1 post-season appearance).
Bob Matheson.... will always be a special Dolphin. He was an outstanding person off the field. If you put Bob on the list, you must then put Arnsberger on the list. Offerdahl was a solid machine. He was the most fundamentally sound LB I ever saw. I played the position and tried to be John Offerdahl. I mean everytime he went to tackle he would square up and be moving up field. He was great. Jackie Shipp gave him credit for making him a better player. If Shipp hadn't been injury prone, he may have developed into a real good one. Just my $.02.
I had to log back in..... I went MiamiDolphins.com just to look, and I see the current poll is who is the greatest WR of all time. Chambers, Clayton, Duper, Fryar, Warfield, McDuffie, and Nat Moore are the choices. I'm kinda surprised. Clayton is way out in front at 38%, Duper 21%, and Warfield at 19%. I think McDuffie and Moore deserve better at 7 and 3%. Chambers 9% and even though he wasn't in the uni long Fryar deserves better then 3%.