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Andre Smith OT Alabama

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Vendigo, Dec 12, 2008.

  1. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    I know that everyone's all over pass rushers right now but I'll post this anyway because I'd like to get some feedback on a question that's bugging me. Here comes: Am I the only one finding Andre Smith significantly overrated right now by the "basement and armchair gurus"? I've recently watched some Bama as I like Caldwell a lot and I was surprised to see the left guard (Mike Johnson's his name) quite simply outplaying Smith to the point that I thought he's actually making the guy look a lot better than he actually his. It's not that Smith stinks. It's that he's way too heavy, messing with his quickness and agility, and as soon as he doesn't get his hands on the defender right away, he's getting beat badly because he's got no way to recover. Mike Johnson kindly masks this problem on a lot of downs because he's one terrific pass blocker, but soon as Smith is left on an island, he's in for trouble. To me it actually seems as if Alabama is well aware of that issue because I noticed them moving the QB to the right side once the play calls for Smith to play on an island. Quite frankly, I didn't see an impact LT on the tape. I saw an RT who might play LT down the line once he's worked on his footwork, got in better shape and learns to places his hands better at the line of scrimmage.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Isnt he the guy that is like 6-11? Dude is a monster.
     
  3. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    No, he's 6-4. Are you referring to Terrence Cody, their DT, possibly?
     
  4. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Yeh...maybe so. They did a pre segment on this guy before the Alabama, Florida game though.
     
  5. joeydolfan

    joeydolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have seen Smith play a few times this year and my immediate impression was that he was carrying too much weight. Made him look a little sloppy and figured we would have no interest. I mean really, look at all of our OL and besides Carey you do not really see any overweight or sloppy lineman. Hell we have Jake who is probably the only OL in the league with anything close to a six pack abs.

    I noticed a post banter between Boomer, Con and Alen a few weeks back asking if you could spot a problem Smith was having so I watched him closely in the LSU and Florida game and you can tell that he is the slowest of their 5 lineman out of his stance. I still think he is a good player, just not what he is being hyped up to be from the scouts and media. If he drops 15 to 20 pounds he would be lighter on his feet and quicker in his drops.

    I agree with you that Caldwell is their best OL and yes Johnson helps hide some of the deficiencies in Smiths game. Would prefer Caldwell, but would not hurt my feeling if we were to select Johnson if he was coming out.
     
  6. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Truth to be told, I'm not so sure anymore about Caldwell being their best guy on the line. I like him a lot but I've been stunned by Johnson on the tape. I'm going on a limb here but I think we're talking about a potential 1st round guard and quite possibly left tackle prospect in the likes of Branden Albert when he comes out next year.
     
  7. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Just as a point of reference; when I researched the height to weight ratio of the lineman Mike Maser has had under his guidance for his career it worked to a 4.02.

    Tall, lean guys will be the norm to honest from what history tells us.
     
  8. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well then the only question becomes who is helping who doesn't it. I always like to refernce Ryan Simms and Julius Peppers at UNC. Simms was drafted high, but it became apparent he was successful because of the extra attention paid to Peppers at the college level. You always have to be wary of who is helping who.

    I'm not going against you, just saying we're now dissecting a whole side of an offensive line.
     
  9. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    You're not alone mate. Like Joey says, Con and I have talked about it. My issue with Smith has always been in pass pro. I think he fires out quickly and has a decent kickslide but he fires out really low and tends to do a hell of a lot of waist bending and leaning to make contact which would worry the hell out of me. He has massive thighs and a huge bubble, but against Ole Miss for example, he was allowing Hardy the edge, he'd get off balance and at times I thought I was watching Phil Loadholt. When he gets his body turned and his base secure, then he's pretty unmoveable, but the slowness to that 6'5 height and the balance that that slowness brings about would give me fits. He walls off defenders well on run plays but I'm drafting him as my cornerstone left tackle, I'm going to have some real issues if I'm taking him high. Like Joey says, he's often the last man off the ball and as Brandon Spikes showed at the weekend, if you get him with speed off the edge, he's slow with his first kick, recovers some using his arms to get back in the play and then is undone because he's unbalanced on the second move. Spikes didn't go all Bruce Smith on him to sack JPW. He did it on his own ability of course, but also because of Smith's lack of technique and his pedestrian footwork.
     
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  10. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    True. I'd have to go back and watch some more games to make any sort of definitive argument but Johnson simply stood out on quite a lot of plays (good technique, nice quickness and agility for a guy that big, decent footwork that looked a lot better than Smith's) and almost every time I saw Smith in trouble was when Johnson wasn't there to pull him out. With Smith and Caldwell going pro, it'll be interesting to see how Johnson does next season. I wouldn't be surprised to see him playing LT at Bama but then again, I've got very little knowledge about recruiting. I just watch who's playing right now :wink2:
     
  11. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yeah the slow release off of the line has been my issue with him for a while now as you know Boom. I often see a DE be even with him before he is out of his stance. He has no knee bend whatsoever, and is thick legged. I mean he can get away with that when he's young, but he will chance are gain weight and fill out as he matures; meaning he will get heavier in his legs too.

    When he gets going he's fine, but anyone in the pros who can rip inside pretty well off of an outside move is going to have a field day with him. If he gets himself down to a smelt 320 he would be much better in my opinion. His quickness would improve - although by how much is up for debate. He also down't just bury people in the run game does he? He knocks them backwards, but rarely is he driving down field then getting another defender in his sights like a Joe Thomas, Willie Roaf would. I mean if he is that highly touted he better be getting after someboody's *** more than he does somewhere along the line.

    He won't be a LT in my opinion, I just can't see it long term. If he has an offense that is wrun oriented, and protects him with a dueces set most of the time then fine. But that's a lot to ask isn't it?
     
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  12. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Actually the first thought that popped up my mind when evaluating what I've just seen was that he was the kind of guy I could see the Steelers being all over should he slide down the board come draft day.
     
  13. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It's a lot to ask for a top 5 pick!!!
     
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  14. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    I have a hard time imagining that he's going to be a top 5 pick on many - if any - team boards. Smith strikes me as the kind of player the internet mock guys are all over and then everyone's going WTF? when he's "sliding" on draft day.
     
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  15. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yeah, this stage is still at where does everyone else have him right now? If the place watches tape, it would be hard to have evryone done right now and anyone who says that may be crazier than a racoon in the moonshine shed.

    But yeah that analysis is right on target. He will slip, I would have think. I mean Millen is gone so who else would fall for it?
     
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  16. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Don't underestimate the old man in Oakland. I wouldn't put it past Davis to finally realize that they need an O-line and then go all bonkers by drafting Smith of all tackles :up:
     
  17. joeydolfan

    joeydolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For me if I was definitely picking a LT in the top 5 and had to choose between Oher, Smith and Eugene Monroe I have to choose Monroe.

    I really like Oher and his skills and would love nothing more than to see him become the best LT in the NFL, but for that kind of up front cash I need every assurance my guy will be on the field and playing well right from the get go.
     
  18. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    My god you're good. I am so glad I am not a Raiders fan for that very reason.
     
  19. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Jason Smith is a guy I like and NO-ONE talks about Ciron Black who is as good as any of them.
     
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  20. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Funny thing is he may have the best feet of all of them. I have a Baylor game on DVD by the way Boom. :wink2:
     
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  21. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    2008? Who against?
     
  22. joeydolfan

    joeydolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Would Smith be more of a target for us due to his athletic ability and great shape? I know he is a former TE for Baylor before switching to LT ala Eric Winston from the Hurricanes and he has been touted as having the best feet of any of the OTs coming out next year.
     
  23. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Texas Tech. Yes 2008.
     
  24. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I doubt it at this stage, too much investment I think. It has nothing to do with his talent, just can't see it. I like the kid, believe me.

    A guy I like for a low round RT pick is the kid Beatty from UCONN - #64. He handles Selvie very well the other day, and fits into the 4.02 height to weight index area Maser seems to key in on.
     
  25. joeydolfan

    joeydolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Beatty was mentioned in a thread from ESPN a week or two ago that I posted and mentioned his good work on Selvie this year. Not sure what round or rounds he may be slated to go in though, 3rd or 4th round would be fine with me, save our big ammo for OLB, NT and DB in the first 2 rounds.
     
  26. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think I sullied the place, yeah. :shifty:
     
  27. joeydolfan

    joeydolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly how do you come up with that ratio Con? Was just wondering for my own personal use to see where Max Unger rates out. I really like the way he plays and his versatility to play any spot on the OL.
     
  28. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    A players weight divided by his height in inches. Jake is 6'7'' 313 lbs.

    313 divided by 79 is 3.96 rounded.
     
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  29. joeydolfan

    joeydolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks Con,


    Looks like Unger would be very close to Jake's stats in that regards. Unger has been reported to be 6'5" 305 lbs. which would work out to be a ratio of 3.96 on the nose.

    I really like his versatility to be able to play C, T and G and honestly how many guys coming out of college have shown they can play all three positions along the line and do it efficiently?
     
  30. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not many to my recollection, maybe Kyle Turley?
     
  31. joeydolfan

    joeydolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would be happy with Kyle Turley type on the OL, dude was a nasty lineman with pretty good skills before injuries derailed his career.
     
  32. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yeah but he was also a locker room cancer, which isn't so hot.
     
  33. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Not much to say here, Con and Booms great posts basically said it lol. However, the reason I did quote this post, Ven, is because I think "WTF?" when I see Brian Orakpo high on peoples boards as well as mock drafts. The guy just doesn't impress me as much as he does others. I'm not sure what they see in him. His game is bulrush and watching.

    I like Beatty. I think me and you talked about him in a Samson Satele thread, didn't we? But yeah, he did a very good job of frustrating Selvie. Rode him with his arms all game and kept him wide.
     
  34. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yes we did alen. :up:

    UCONN seems to be becoming a hot bed for under the radar type players, much the way Hampton has lately. Beatty acquitted himself very well to be honest in more than just that game.
     
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  35. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Yeah, I like a couple of UCONN's players. They have their own Brian Orakpo in Cody Brown and then they have the under the radar, hard-working guy like Julius Williams. Big fan of his. Btw, I really want to see him playing in coverage. I wonder if or how much his stiff hips affect him.
     
  36. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, either at the combine or at an all star game he goes to eh'll be tested there at some point. There are too many 3-4 teams in the NFL for someone to not want to look at a guy 6'3'' 258lbs at OLB. You'll see something from him, thats for sure.
     
  37. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Yeah. Hopefully they will show him off a bit at the January 3rd bowl game.
     
  38. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I hope to have all of the bowl games recorded. :up:
     
  39. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Me too. It will be a difficult task though.
     
  40. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Couple of under the radar versatile linemen that I really like who will go in that late 2 to early 4 range are Andy Levitre at Oregon State who's played both tackle spots and guard. Powerful with great hands who really works his blocks till the whistle, he's a good player. I've mentioned Andrew Gardner a lot, but I've also been impressed with Mike Turkovich at Notre Dame who played LG last season but has been solid at LT. Haven't seen much of the Irish all season, mainly because they are a prospect desert, although Golden Tate I could watch all day for down the line. However, Turkovich looks a solid RT prospect at the next level. Both have that versatility to play inside or out.
     
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