Andy Cohen: So Many Options Available To Upgrade Team

We're set up well this off season. Assuming we sign the players we reached out to, which are Smith, Starks, Long and Hartline, we'll have major needs at FS, CB opposite Smith, Nickel Rusher, Guard, Receiver and TE.

I think Guard and Nickel rusher shouldn't be positions you invest heavily in. Players like Donald Thomas and Antwan Barnes could be good but cheap options. We should go all out on FS, CB, Receiver, and Tight End, though.

"Anonymous wrote:

We're set up well this off season. Assuming we sign the players we reached out to, which are Smith, Starks, Long and Hartline, we'll have major needs at FS, CB opposite Smith, Nickel Rusher, Guard, Receiver and TE.

I think Guard and Nickel rusher shouldn't be positions you invest heavily in. Players like Donald Thomas and Antwan Barnes could be good but cheap options. We should go all out on FS, CB, Receiver, and Tight End, though.

i'd love to bring back donald "godsend" thomas (we shoulda never cut him in the first place), but i doubt it happens.

"Anonymous wrote:

We're set up well this off season. Assuming we sign the players we reached out to, which are Smith, Starks, Long and Hartline, we'll have major needs at FS, CB opposite Smith, Nickel Rusher, Guard, Receiver and TE.

I think Guard and Nickel rusher shouldn't be positions you invest heavily in. Players like Donald Thomas and Antwan Barnes could be good but cheap options. We should go all out on FS, CB, Receiver, and Tight End, though.

Assuming we sign all 4 of those players might be a large assumption. I also think that while we could use an upgrade at FS, it's not a must-have. I see WR, TE and CB as being much more pressing needs. Ireland also spoke of the need of getting more pressure up the middle, so a DT wouldn't shock me, especially with Soliai's contract set to run out after the 2013 season.

"LBsFinest wrote:

i'd love to bring back donald "godsend" thomas (we shoulda never cut him in the first place), but i doubt it happens.

How would we do that at this point, trade our 1st round pick to New England for him? I'd love to have him back as well, waiving him seemed wrong back then and now it's a bad joke.

"Anonymous wrote:

We're set up well this off season. Assuming we sign the players we reached out to, which are Smith, Starks, Long and Hartline, we'll have major needs at FS, CB opposite Smith, Nickel Rusher, Guard, Receiver and TE.

I think Guard and Nickel rusher shouldn't be positions you invest heavily in. Players like Donald Thomas and Antwan Barnes could be good but cheap options. We should go all out on FS, CB, Receiver, and Tight End, though.

I will have real issues if we end up resigning all 4 of those guys. that keeps the talent level the same - pretty good, but not great, and eats up much of the remaining salary cap.
whichever two of those four have the most reasonable market, sign em and let the other two walk. use the remaining money to go get a couple of playmakers and draft to replace the two that walked. don't overpay for a position where you have guys that can potentially step in at similar productivity - i.e. Bush and Starks.

After carefully perusing this superb article outlining the current state of the team, I have two words:

Well, Duh!

That piece is so fluffy he ought to patent it for an inclusion in cake frosting.

"RevRick wrote:

After carefully perusing this superb article outlining the current state of the team, I have two words:

Well, Duh!

That piece is so fluffy he ought to patent it for an inclusion in cake frosting.

Yeah, whatever happened to the day of hard hitting journalism from a hard scrabble reporter paid for by the team!!!!!!!!:shifty:

he did admit that this accumulation of draft picks and cap flexibility was not some coincidence. It was by design. Part of a long-term plan, if you will.

So, the long-term plan was to spend 5 years building a roster and then let those pieces walk?

All part of the plan, all part of the plan.

"Desides wrote:

So, the long-term plan was to spend 5 years building a roster and then let those pieces walk?

Or it could be part of the plan from when 2 years ago.

That's right, i forgot, you think Ireland had no idea when everyone's contract was going to be up and had no idea he could extend guys early.

"Fin D wrote:

That's right, i forgot, you think Ireland had no idea when everyone's contract was going to be up and had no idea he could extend guys early.

Actually, I think you should read my posts before decorating the straw men.

My position on the $46 million in cap space is that it was created by allowing the core of the team to expire all in the same year, therefore it's not necessarily a good thing--nor can we be as flexible with this cap space as we seem to be projecting.

If our core is Jake Long , Sean Smith , Brian Heartline , Reggie Bush [29 year old RB] and Randy Starks We are in serious trouble people. Might be time to find a new core group of players.

"RevRick wrote:

After carefully perusing this superb article outlining the current state of the team, I have two words:

Well, Duh!

That piece is so fluffy he ought to patent it for an inclusion in cake frosting.

You can't take anything Andy Cohen writes too seriously. He's a paid shill for the Dolphins. He writes for MiamiDolphins.com. You think he's going to criticize the team at all ? If he does, his paychecks end.

"Desides wrote:

Actually, I think you should read my posts before decorating the straw men.

My position on the $46 million in cap space is that it was created by allowing the core of the team to expire all in the same year, therefore it's not necessarily a good thing--nor can we be as flexible with this cap space as we seem to be projecting.

Look, if you don't know what a strawman is, you should stop using the expression.

You're making a giant leap in thinking that Ireland planned when he signed the guys he did, that they'd all come up at the same time so he could purge them. That's not what's going on.

He signed the guys he did, it so happens that they are coming up at the same time and instead of starting negotiations for extensions last year or the year before on some of them, it was planned to not do that to have ample room and maneuverability to reshape the team since thy knew they were purging Sparano and going in a different direction altogether than Parcells blueprint.

If that isn't the case, then you're implying what I said, and that Ireland either had no idea all the contracts were up or he did know and didn't know he could sign guys to extensions, even though he has in the past. You cannot make your accusation and not have one of those conclusions.

"Fin D wrote:

Look, if you don't know what a strawman is, you should stop using the expression.

You're making a giant leap in thinking that Ireland planned when he signed the guys he did, that they'd all come up at the same time so he could purge them. That's not what's going on.

He signed the guys he did, it so happens that they are coming up at the same time and instead of starting negotiations for extensions last year or the year before on some of them, it was planned to not do that to have ample room and maneuverability to reshape the team since thy knew they were purging Sparano and going in a different direction altogether than Parcells blueprint.
If that isn't the case, then you're implying what I said, and that Ireland either had no idea all the contracts were up or he did know and didn't know he could sign guys to extensions, even though he has in the past. You cannot make your accusation and not have one of those conclusions.

I believe it to be the bold part.

"gunn34 wrote:

I believe it to be the bold part.

Its the only thing it can be, unless one is willing to honestly say he either didn't know it was coming or he did know and simply didn't care.

"Fin D wrote:

Look, if you don't know what a strawman is, you should stop using the expression.

You're making a giant leap in thinking that Ireland planned when he signed the guys he did, that they'd all come up at the same time so he could purge them. That's not what's going on.

A straw man is an invented argument falsely attributed to the person you're replying to. When you said "... you think Ireland had no idea when everyone's contract was going to be up and had no idea he could extend guys early", you created a straw man, because I have not made this argument.

My argument is that creating cap space by trading or expiring what should have been the core of a playoff team is not necessarily a desirable method. This somehow gets warped in your head to an argument that seems to drift back and forth between an allegation of conspiracy (all contracts timed to expire at the same time) and an allegation of incompetence (GM didn't know when the contracts were expiring and didn't know they could be extended).

Either read the plain language of my posts or add me to your ignore list. Either way, stop trying to get me to defend arguments I don't assert.

The fact remains that we have a windfall of cap space created by the expiration of multiple contracts combined with the trading of one big contract and one expiring contract. Cap space was created not through proration or cap-exempt bonuses or any other similar method, but by getting rid of contracts. This is observed without a positive or negative connotation.

"Desides wrote:

A straw man is an invented argument falsely attributed to the person you're replying to. When you said "... you think Ireland had no idea when everyone's contract was going to be up and had no idea he could extend guys early", you created a straw man, because I have not made this argument.

My argument is that creating cap space by trading or expiring what should have been the core of a playoff team is not necessarily a desirable method. This somehow gets warped in your head to an argument that seems to drift back and forth between an allegation of conspiracy (all contracts timed to expire at the same time) and an allegation of incompetence (GM didn't know when the contracts were expiring and didn't know they could be extended).

Either read the plain language of my posts or add me to your ignore list. Either way, stop trying to get me to defend arguments I don't assert.

The fact remains that we have a windfall of cap space created by the expiration of multiple contracts combined with the trading of one big contract and one expiring contract. Cap space was created not through proration or cap-exempt bonuses or any other similar method, but by getting rid of contracts. This is observed without a positive or negative connotation.

Hey, if your stance has actually changed from this post a few days ago:

"Desides wrote:

Jeff Ireland did not foreplan 2012 as the final year of so many contracts because he somehow anticipated changing from Tony Sparano to Joe Philbin.

Then I apologize.

But I don't think you can begrudge me considering I didn't know you're stance changed.

"Fin D wrote:

Hey, if your stance has actually changed from this post a few days ago:

Then I apologize.

But I don't think you can begrudge me considering I didn't know you're stance changed.

"Jeff Ireland did not foreplan"

You're welcome for the clarification.

"Desides wrote:

"Jeff Ireland did not foreplan"

You're welcome for the clarification.

Wait, your stance didn't change?

Holy **** you two please stop having a slap fight in the middle of the thread. One liners back and forth make for incredibly boring reading.

Also, you know the definition of a straw man argument but you seem to have some issue distinguishing between one and someone simply interpreting your argument based on your previous statements.

It'd be like you two arguing about Ireland's draft history and then he brings up "listen, I know you think Ireland is a bad drafter, I'm just saying he's a good free agent GM"

no thank you to an article from the Ministry of Information

"Crazy685 wrote:

Holy **** you two please stop having a slap fight in the middle of the thread. One liners back and forth make for incredibly boring reading.

Also, you know the definition of a straw man argument but you seem to have some issue distinguishing between one and someone simply interpreting your argument based on your previous statements.

It'd be like you two arguing about Ireland's draft history and then he brings up "listen, I know you think Ireland is a bad drafter, I'm just saying he's a good free agent GM"

Golly, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was here to entertain you.
In that case, here's a description of Game of Thrones from the paperback edition:

Long ago, in a time forgotten, a preternatural event threw the seasons out of balance. In a land where summers can last decades and winters a lifetime, trouble is brewing. The cold is returning, and in the frozen wastes to the north of Winterfell, sinister and supernatural forces are massing beyond the kingdom's protective Wall. At the center of the conflict lie the Starks of Winterfell, a family as harsh and unyielding as the land they were born to. Sweeping from a land of brutal cold to a distant summertime kingdom of epicurean plenty, here is a tale of lords and ladies, soldiers and sorcerers, assassins and bastards, who come together in a time of grim omens.

Here an enigmatic band of warriors bear swords of no human metal; a tribe of fierce wildlings carry men off into madness; a cruel young dragon prince barters his sister to win back his throne; and a determined woman undertakes the most treacherous of journeys. Amid plots and counterplots, tragedy and betrayal, victory and terror, the fate of the Starks, their allies, and their enemies hangs perilously in the balance, as each endeavors to win that deadliest of conflicts: the game of thrones.

I hope that helps to keep your interest and I'm sorry for boring you earlier.

the more i hear that idiot Jeff Ireland talk the more i beleive he will screw us up again.