1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Andy Cohen: So Many Options Available To Upgrade Team

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sceeto, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    12,509
    5,146
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    http://www.miamidolphins.com/news/a...ade-Team/f5813c52-640f-4dc6-9be9-248ad02d30f4

    THIS is the year? Not the first five? :escape:

    :pointlol:

     
  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    14,014
    3,385
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    We're set up well this off season. Assuming we sign the players we reached out to, which are Smith, Starks, Long and Hartline, we'll have major needs at FS, CB opposite Smith, Nickel Rusher, Guard, Receiver and TE.

    I think Guard and Nickel rusher shouldn't be positions you invest heavily in. Players like Donald Thomas and Antwan Barnes could be good but cheap options. We should go all out on FS, CB, Receiver, and Tight End, though.
     
    Larryfinfan likes this.
  3. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    i'd love to bring back donald "godsend" thomas (we shoulda never cut him in the first place), but i doubt it happens.
     
  4. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

    8,472
    4,278
    113
    Jan 4, 2008
    Swamps of Jersey
    Assuming we sign all 4 of those players might be a large assumption. I also think that while we could use an upgrade at FS, it's not a must-have. I see WR, TE and CB as being much more pressing needs. Ireland also spoke of the need of getting more pressure up the middle, so a DT wouldn't shock me, especially with Soliai's contract set to run out after the 2013 season.
     
  5. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    How would we do that at this point, trade our 1st round pick to New England for him? I'd love to have him back as well, waiving him seemed wrong back then and now it's a bad joke.
     
  6. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

    26,325
    12,244
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    I will have real issues if we end up resigning all 4 of those guys. that keeps the talent level the same - pretty good, but not great, and eats up much of the remaining salary cap.
    whichever two of those four have the most reasonable market, sign em and let the other two walk. use the remaining money to go get a couple of playmakers and draft to replace the two that walked. don't overpay for a position where you have guys that can potentially step in at similar productivity - i.e. Bush and Starks.
     
  7. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

    7,046
    3,742
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Itsnotevenonthemap, GA
    After carefully perusing this superb article outlining the current state of the team, I have two words:

    Well, Duh!


    That piece is so fluffy he ought to patent it for an inclusion in cake frosting.
     
    Section126, Da 'Fins, Aquafin and 5 others like this.
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Yeah, whatever happened to the day of hard hitting journalism from a hard scrabble reporter paid for by the team!!!!!!!!:shifty:
     
  9. Desides

    Desides Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    38,945
    20,022
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    So, the long-term plan was to spend 5 years building a roster and then let those pieces walk?
     
  10. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

    5,649
    1,853
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    DC
    All part of the plan, all part of the plan.
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Or it could be part of the plan from when 2 years ago.

    That's right, i forgot, you think Ireland had no idea when everyone's contract was going to be up and had no idea he could extend guys early.
     
  12. Desides

    Desides Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    38,945
    20,022
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    Actually, I think you should read my posts before decorating the straw men.

    My position on the $46 million in cap space is that it was created by allowing the core of the team to expire all in the same year, therefore it's not necessarily a good thing--nor can we be as flexible with this cap space as we seem to be projecting.
     
  13. Perfectville_USA

    Perfectville_USA Mr Perfect

    607
    302
    0
    Dec 27, 2012
    Syracuse NY
    If our core is Jake Long [who can no longer stay healthy], Sean Smith [very average CB], Brian Heartline [can not find the endzone with a map], Reggie Bush [29 year old RB] and Randy Starks [who I do like] We are in serious trouble people. Might be time to find a new core group of players.
     
  14. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

    3,328
    339
    0
    Oct 16, 2012
    You can't take anything Andy Cohen writes too seriously. He's a paid shill for the Dolphins. He writes for MiamiDolphins.com. You think he's going to criticize the team at all ? If he does, his paychecks end.
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Look, if you don't know what a strawman is, you should stop using the expression.

    You're making a giant leap in thinking that Ireland planned when he signed the guys he did, that they'd all come up at the same time so he could purge them. That's not what's going on.

    He signed the guys he did, it so happens that they are coming up at the same time and instead of starting negotiations for extensions last year or the year before on some of them, it was planned to not do that to have ample room and maneuverability to reshape the team since thy knew they were purging Sparano and going in a different direction altogether than Parcells blueprint.

    If that isn't the case, then you're implying what I said, and that Ireland either had no idea all the contracts were up or he did know and didn't know he could sign guys to extensions, even though he has in the past. You cannot make your accusation and not have one of those conclusions.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  16. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

    21,763
    3,477
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    Oviedo FL
    I believe it to be the bold part.
     
    Da 'Fins, Perfectville_USA and Fin D like this.
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Its the only thing it can be, unless one is willing to honestly say he either didn't know it was coming or he did know and simply didn't care.
     
  18. Desides

    Desides Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    38,945
    20,022
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    A straw man is an invented argument falsely attributed to the person you're replying to. When you said "... you think Ireland had no idea when everyone's contract was going to be up and had no idea he could extend guys early", you created a straw man, because I have not made this argument.

    My argument is that creating cap space by trading or expiring what should have been the core of a playoff team is not necessarily a desirable method. This somehow gets warped in your head to an argument that seems to drift back and forth between an allegation of conspiracy (all contracts timed to expire at the same time) and an allegation of incompetence (GM didn't know when the contracts were expiring and didn't know they could be extended).

    Either read the plain language of my posts or add me to your ignore list. Either way, stop trying to get me to defend arguments I don't assert.

    The fact remains that we have a windfall of cap space created by the expiration of multiple contracts combined with the trading of one big contract and one expiring contract. Cap space was created not through proration or cap-exempt bonuses or any other similar method, but by getting rid of contracts. This is observed without a positive or negative connotation.
     
  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Hey, if your stance has actually changed from this post a few days ago:
    Then I apologize.

    But I don't think you can begrudge me considering I didn't know you're stance changed.
     
  20. Desides

    Desides Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    38,945
    20,022
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    "Jeff Ireland did not foreplan"

    You're welcome for the clarification.
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Wait, your stance didn't change?
     
  22. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan New Member

    1,005
    546
    0
    Feb 18, 2012
    Holy **** you two please stop having a slap fight in the middle of the thread. One liners back and forth make for incredibly boring reading.

    Also, you know the definition of a straw man argument but you seem to have some issue distinguishing between one and someone simply interpreting your argument based on your previous statements.

    It'd be like you two arguing about Ireland's draft history and then he brings up "listen, I know you think Ireland is a bad drafter, I'm just saying he's a good free agent GM"
     
  23. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

    18,425
    6,346
    113
    Dec 5, 2007
    clearwater, fl
    no thank you to an article from the Ministry of Information
     
    Section126, Da 'Fins and Bpk like this.
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Golly, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was here to entertain you.
    In that case, here's a description of Game of Thrones from the paperback edition:
    I hope that helps to keep your interest and I'm sorry for boring you earlier.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  25. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

    4,738
    304
    0
    Jun 16, 2011
    the poor house
    the more i hear that idiot Jeff Ireland talk the more i beleive he will screw us up again.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  26. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    It will take a lot of care, planning and preparation for Ireland to successfully avoid all these options.
     
  27. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan New Member

    1,005
    546
    0
    Feb 18, 2012
    You're 38 years old? Seriously?

    You understand what I was trying to say (at least, I'm assuming so, you don't come off a functionally ******ed) so please, spare me. One liners and a petty slap fight does not advance the discussion. That was my entire point. If I wasn't to read that crap I'd stick to FinHeaven!
     
  28. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    [​IMG]
     
  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Yeah, you should always totally just jump in a thread to ***** about people *****ing, that makes awesome reading and sense.

    If after only 60+ posts you're already fed up, I suggest you put me on ignore. You'll be waaaaaaaaaaaaay happier.
     
  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,465
    37,345
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Yessir, imo we will see young guys filling several of the roles of the departing FA's, not replacing them with FA's, but draft choices and UDFA's etc.
     
  31. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,337
    19,506
    113
    Dec 19, 2007
    Birmingham, AL
    LT, OG (either), TE, WR (or two), another RB to throw in the mix (Bush or someone cheaper or draft) on Offense.

    Starks is the best of the bunch I want to keep (DL depth is a big bonus for this D). Edge Rusher, CB, FS on Defense.

    6 players on offense. 3 on defense if we keep Starks. $80 M in cap space and 12 picks in rounds 1-4 would make it hard to get that.

    That's a ton of needs. They need to get about 3 sure FA starters and some competitors at other spots. At RB those can always be had - (a Felix Jones, Jacobs, Woodhead, Hillis - any of those would be better than Thomas).

    But, if they can land 3-4 solid FA's from outside (that's asking a lot but they do have cap space): a FA WR (say Jennings) w/out breaking the bank; land a pass rush DE/OLB (like Avril or Michael Johnson or Barwin) and then an OG (like a Levitre) ... or possibly an upper-middle-class DB ... that would free them in the draft to go after some particular spots. I'd be pretty happy.

    The biggest problem for them is the Epic Fail of Jake Long. When you draft a LT #1 - that player MUST be a 10 year, pro-bowl caliber starter or your draft is going to be crushed.

    If Long were bonafide and legit - we'd sign him and he'd cost - but it would be a position we'd have no worries about. He (and by connection - Ireland) is really a central reason for problems going forward.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  32. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

    18,188
    16,237
    113
    Dec 21, 2007
    Berlin,Germany
    and the problem is ? lots of teams find out after some years that the players they signed/drafted are not working out the way they envisioned, so you rather put the money into these players that you know about or you start a run for some new players who could bring the upside of playing better ?
     
  33. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan New Member

    1,005
    546
    0
    Feb 18, 2012
    I just don't see how you can give up Chris Clemons right now. Is he a great safety? No. But you make him an offer, and you let that plug a hole for a while. You know it's not the solid foundation you want there, but he was grading out positively by PFF, and he simply didn't look lost out there for the most part. You throw him 2-3 years for 8 million and you lock him up for now. Extend Reshad Jones now. He's an absolute stud. 3 more years on his deal with an extra 15 million on top. That's fair. Hopefully he goes for it, although he could easily command more.

    We absolutely have to fill holes at:

    -WR
    -OL
    -CB
    -DE
    -TE

    We have serious depth issues, as it stands, with

    -RB
    -S

    Anything after that is likely a benefit and a luxury. We have good linebackers and more than adequate depth, we've got solid starters on the inside, we've got quality depth all along the o-line, actually. We will have good depth at TE, and we've got some question marks at RB. Will one of them emerge? I have faith in Lamar Miller, I really do. I also think Gray will do well with limited touches.

    That's still a ton of holes to fill in a SINGLE off-season. Yes, we have cap room and draft picks, but it'd be an incredibly successful off-season if we were able to fill 3 of those 5 positions with starters that were considered "good" let alone "great" or "elite". You've gotta be realistic here.
     
  34. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Good points 685.

    Expect on free agent who pans out, one who disappoints and an overachieving street FA or UDFA who plays like an average NFL player. We probably lose half of Hartline, Starks, Sean Smith, Jake Long, Reggie Bush.

    In the draft, expect a starter from the 1st round pick, one hit and one miss in round two, and one hit out of rounds three a/three b/round four. Also a decent depth player from rounds five and later.

    That's a typical Ireland offseason. Which means probably three good players coming in, a couple so-so ones, and losing three good to so-so players.

    Essentially, expect to roughly tread water, if Ireland holds to form.
     
  35. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Actually the one hope we have is if te staff can develop guys from within.

    We need a couple more players to progress like Rashad Jones did this past year. That's our best chance to not tread water but actually progress.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,087
    50,000
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    its a hell of a topic, and I'd like to get into it, it makes sense I think to not sign early extensions until the coach sees what he has, and knows what he wants..

    Lets see we have what 7 starters going into the year?, and I think I can say that all those players didnt necessarily deserve the extension, there needed to be some proving out there, especially smith, Reggie, Jake, Clemons..

    Seems pretty logical, not sure how to put it in the context of The amount of holes we might have with our new coach and all,and how much if a rebuild were talking about?, but this should get very interesting for Ireland, the spotlight is directly on this man.
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,087
    50,000
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    chill out man, their both intelligent respected posters, sometimes that sh&$ gets crossed..

    The only thing I would say is I wish it didnt get to suggesting putting others on ignore, I'd like to think they can work it out as well...I respect both a lot.

    That Harry potter sh&$ was funny though lol
     
    RevRick and Fin D like this.
  38. PerfectTeam

    PerfectTeam Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    2,569
    1,282
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Port St. Lucie, FL
    He's actually a free agent this off season so we could sign him.....would be ironic but none the less would be an upgrade over Jerry.
     
  39. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

    7,046
    3,742
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Itsnotevenonthemap, GA
    Sometimes I think we get to snappin' at each other just out of sheer frustration. Dedicated fans and some even more dedicated Dolphinaddicts have existed in a surreal realm of frustration, built up hopes crushed, and eager anticipation for an end for the past decade plus...even more if we trace the origination of this miasma back to 1995 when Shula went ape $#!+ spending on free agents which never worked out. None of us have any real idea how this is going to work out but everyone of us has some idea about how we would like it to improve and on here, we sometimes let our hair down and blow of a lot of pent up steam - snapping @$$#0!&$ at each other (Old Navy term for b*tching, complaining, grab@ssing, etc. It's what all sailors do every day about being where they are and in a love/hate relationship with something over which they have absolutely no control!)

    We are more or less in the same spot. We can cuss about the team, but we love it at the same time - and that leads sometimes to intellectual constipation. And this spot is where that can be relieved - which confuses newbs quite a bit.

    But in the end, most of us here have developed enough of a cyber relationship with each other not to take it overly seriously (but we allow our selves some latitude to blow off frustrated steam!) and come back and enjoy the conversations and the relational information we share even as sparingly as it takes place. Still, 'tis a far better place than the one from whence most of us came to this place..

    Let's just keep it that way. Hokay!
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  40. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Seriously guys, stay on topic. No more talk of players. Stick to the slap fight. Don't make me report this thread.
     
    evz and djphinfan like this.

Share This Page