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Antarctic ice shelf set to collapse due to warming

Discussion in 'Science & Technology' started by Darkoak, Jan 21, 2009.

  1. Darkoak

    Darkoak Gone for good.

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    http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE50I4G520090120
     
  2. Darkoak

    Darkoak Gone for good.

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    It couldn't possibly be we had something to do with this?:lol: Nah it couldn't be.
     
  3. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Must have been all that aqua net I used back in the days.

    Isn't this a Science thread btw? Not wanting to be a thread nazi, just want to know for future reference since I sometimes can't decide which thread to post in.
     
  4. Darkoak

    Darkoak Gone for good.

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    Just let Soundwave and the flat earth society get up and running and it will turn political in no time.............:lol:

    Nah I posted it in here because the science section is too slow. If it gets moved that's fair.
     
  5. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    I moved this thread to it's proper forum, the next deliberate misplacement gets an infraction with points.
     
  6. Soundwave

    Soundwave Phins Sympathizer..

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    one star.
     
  7. Soundwave

    Soundwave Phins Sympathizer..

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    I was wondering what 'with points' refers to?

    Thanks in advance
     
  8. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    we give everyone three chances.. first a pm, then a zero point warning, then an infraction with assigned points is given. Different infractions get different point values and the second one the points double. ie, insulting another member is 4, second offense, often in the same thread, doubles that to 8..that's 12, ten points gets you a 30 day vacation. We also leave a usernote on the offending account so other staff can see the history, which will sometimes determine the severity of the punishment. A behavior pattern sometimes appears that is not what we have in mind for our members, those are asked to leave and not return.

    In almost every case we try and coerce good behavior with compliments and suggestions before the hammer comes out and we get serious. Not one of us wants to get on anyone, and it robs US of pleasurable posting if we have to spend a half hour on reports and paperwork because someone couldn't behave.

    I hope this answers your questions, I considered responding by pm but decided a public answer might have more value. Any more questions please go to pm to keep the thread on topic.
     
  9. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    Now what happens when this DOES collapse? Are we talking tidal wave like they're saying will happen when that hunk of the Canary Islands falls into the sea?
     
  10. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    I am pretty certain it will break without any great amount of energy going into the ocean. The connected side may drop some and the sheet itself maybe rock like a big boat some, but I have read no concerns about a tsunami. One of the big concerns is that with this sheet out of the way, the glaciers may accelerate their seaward journey. The sea ice won't raise sea levels, but if the icesheet on antartica moves into the ocean, the sea level will be affected.
     
  11. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    per the article
     
  12. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    I didn't read the article, guess I'm lucky my post agreed. I have a great interest in all this.. so I try and stay up to speed. The weather board I hang out has a lot of stiff about this sibject, I have brought some over here to discuss but get no bites.
     
  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    So what would the ETA be of the other sheets coming on down once this breaks?
     
  14. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    It's an unknown. There is evidence of some liquid lakes below the ice and the worry is liquid under the glaciers will "grease" the slide. Those that portend the increasing snowfall there are not considering that warmer temperatures allow more snow, it CAN be indicative of warming.

    Ricky Rood, and Jeff Masters have a TON of climate stuff, I cannot recommend the site enough. It is here I get almost all of my hurricane stuff during the season.

    weatherunderground

     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I've been there many times, thanks to you, but I don't always understand it. You're pretty good at dumbing it down so that I can finally get it.
     
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  16. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    yeah I just thought it was interesting you were dead on :lol:
     
  17. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    When a top NASA guy says just a few years ago that Antarctica cooling was consistent with their models of global warming

    http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2004/2004_Shindell_Schmidt.pdf
    Then turns around, once temps started to rise, to proclaim that Antarctica getting hotter is of course an undeniable consequence

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/science/earth/22climate.html?ref=science
    I just don't know what to believe. I'm not a scientist. What changed?
     
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  18. jason8er

    jason8er Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Brother J, I can tell you what’s changed…………nothing. :lol:

    Consider this bro: In the 1930’s, after a few decades of warming temperatures, there were great concerns even then over global warming. Then something happened that no one predicted. The Earth went into a forty year cooling cycle from about 1940 to almost 1980.

    During that cooling phase, in the late 1950’s to especially the 1970’s, we were again flooded with doomsday predictions. Only this time it was a global cooling scare with predictions of subfreezing temperatures, mass starvation/extinction, and a mile of ice over Manhattan in TIME and NEWSWEEK. Then something happened again that no one really predicted. It began to warm again.

    And so, out came the doomsayers again, switching out the temperature, but giving us the same apocalyptic outcomes. Only much more vicious and dishonest this time around, as environmental extremism, spineless politicians, and billions of new dollars can have this effect on people.

    And now, some are beginning to change their minds yet AGAIN as the Earth enters its current cooling phase. This time, to the deaf ears of the global warming alarmists, some great solar physicists nailed this current cooling almost a decade ago and predict it to last thru 2030.

    In another decade or so, when they find a suitable scapegoat for this global cooling, there will be a new imaginary “consensus” at the UN and yada yada yada………

    So as you can see bro, nothing has really changed. :wink2:
     
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  19. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    except the sea levels continue to rise, a minor thing really.. only affects a half billion people, nothing to be concerned about. :shifty:
     
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  20. jason8er

    jason8er Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Oh come on Marty, I don't come across as THAT heartless do I? :lol:

    Well, either way, sea levels were about 20 ft higher 130,000 years ago. And, since they have been rising steadily due to melting ice and thermal expansion since the last ice age 15,000 years ago, barring any future cooling, I would expect another 20 ft of ocean rise. Just not for a few more millenia at the current rate of rise, or even the IPCC's predicted rate.

    I have been saying all along that the Kyoto protocol will not do anything to help. We should instead use those trillions to prepare people for the inevidable. We have plenty of time, as long as we don't waste it in the wrong areas. I believe Kyoto is the wrong area.
     
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  21. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As long as it doesn't all come in one year, we'll be ok. I live about 1/2 mile from the ocean. It would suck, but I'll just head <==== That way. :lol:
     
  22. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    Brother, we've been through this before but I have yet to hear how this idea is reconciled by observed (measured) temperatures. I don't see where there was a 40 year cooling cycle over the year ranges you cited:

    [​IMG]
     
  23. jason8er

    jason8er Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Mal, even the IPCC recognizes this trend. Here’s Goddard’s 5 year mean Land-Ocean Index, after their most recent data fix. One of many more fixes to come (hopefully). Stephen McIntyre, who destroyed the infamous “hockey stick” graph (and thankfully got it tossed out of the latest IPCC report), has set his sights on GISS, and has already gotten them to begrudgingly make necessary changes.

    [​IMG]

    Here is the US temperature record showing a more distinct cooling phase over the same four decades or so. This is what was causing all the doom and gloom here in the US.

    [​IMG]

    Surely you got the gist of what I was saying didn’t you? How they haven’t been able to predict what comes next? How things turn unexpectedly, but which ever way the temperature is going, up or down, it’s to hell-in-a-hand-basket for all of us?
     
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  24. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    So, that temperature drop was based on a 5-year average? That is not a long time to look at to come derive a mean temperature, my friend but I agree that based on the time scale, there was a drop in air and sea temperatures over that time period. I'm not sure what that means in the grand scheme of things. 5 years is a compressed time to look at global changes. For example, if you look at the number of times a person trips down the stairs over a 5-year time period and there are two incidents in 2 of those 5 years, but only 1 in the previous 30 years, it is going to appear that the change in trip frequency is significant if you only examine 5-10 years but is it really in the 35 years of tracking? I don't know my friend.

    Also, can you point me to your source so that I can check the methodology for the temperature data? TIA.
     
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  25. jason8er

    jason8er Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    GISS (Goddard Institute for Space Studies) is essentially NASA. It is a very Anthropogenic bunch headed up by Al Gore's buddy Jim Hansen. Here is his original study from JGR in 1987. He has had to make changes since, the most recent was July 07. Those changes affected US records more than global though.

    http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1987/1987_Hansen_Lebedeff.pdf

    YES! I'm with you if you think it means nothing. It's just another temperature trend that has failed to go outside nature's variability. And as you can see here, neither has the upward trend of the last 150 years. If anything, we are the coolest warm period of the last 3500 years (so far anyway).

    [​IMG]
     
  26. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    Five years does not a meaningful trend make but 150 years, the span of the industrial age and the corresponding rise in CO2 levels, I believe does.

    Do you have any idea how the temperature extrapolated through the Minoan period and periods following in the graph above?
     
  27. jason8er

    jason8er Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    I hear ya, but 150 years is even way to short for the geophysics crowd. :hi5:

    That graph is from a presentation by a Marine Geophysicist. His specialty is seabed cores, but what you see is the GISP2 Greenland ice cores.
     

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