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Anybody else excited about Igbinoghene?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Surfs Up 99, May 14, 2020.

  1. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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  2. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Our corners seem to be the strength of our defense so far.
     
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  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That was a really cool article! Glad I read it, thanks for sharing.
     
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  4. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Definitely. His combination of athleticism and football IQ is exciting. I'm most excited about our first 4 picks and Perry.
     
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  5. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    At almost 71 and six weeks from retirement from the pulpit, I would be excited if someone put up a set of directions about pronouncing his name.
     
  6. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

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    Just call him 'Iggy'...
     
  7. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Igg - been - ugg - ghenny
     
  8. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    What are ya'lls thoughts on X? Will this be his last year as a Dolphin? I know we value CBs, but what if Igbinoghene, or another guy really comes on? Would you be opposed to Grier shedding X and his salary to another team, during the season, for 2021 draft picks if we have a guy who can hold his own on the outside?
     
  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    That's what i'll do, likely as long as he's on the team, lol.

    As far as my feelings about him, I think that he's going to take time and patience, but could end up being really good. He's literally the youngest player in Miami Dolphins history for one, and from what I've seen from his highlights, a lot of what he did in college would be counted as penalties in the NFL. Let Flores and company coach him up, and hopefully we'll have a really good 22 year old starter in a couple of years.
     
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  10. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Active Member

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    Thanks for posting that. It was a good read and very interesting.

    Noah has the potential to become a big name, not just in South Florida, but throughout the NFL. He has two of the best CBs around to learn from and with the right coaching, he could be a major star for years.
     
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  11. IdrA

    IdrA Rebuilding for Eternity.

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    I hate the position pick for sure still, however I'm still excited to see what he brings to the table, and how exactly the Dolphins plan to infuse him, especially at that price (1st rd.) I hope they make him a safety and he puts on some muscle mass.
     
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  12. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I'm not sure he'd ever really be big enough to play safety, and it seems like playing press man is his strength, so I'm guessing he sticks at corner. Having three high end corners stopping the other team's WRs is a highly useful thing.
     
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  13. IdrA

    IdrA Rebuilding for Eternity.

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    So he's going to cover slot receivers? Woowee, glad we had to go into the 1st round for that need. He seems a little short and scrawny you're right about that. We coulda added a WR or an actual S or even a DT prospect.
     
  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    With most teams using three and four WR sets, we need guys capable of covering them. Last season, Rowe ended up doing an OK job, eventually, covering TEs. I'm guessing he'll be in that role to start this season too, but I think we'll look to develop someone to replace him there. Whether that's Brandon Jones or not, I don't know.

    Either way, I would think that a true safety is on the top of the list for next offseason. Can't fix everything or fill every hole all at once.
     
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  15. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I agree that those other positions that you listed are important, too. However, for me, it's like TE, you give me a stud at slot CB and I am one happy camper.

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-the-nfl-continues-undervalue-slot-cornerbacks
     
  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Plus, I think it's more about scheme in general- we don't want to run a lot of zone coverage and you don't have to with three elite corners. If we're shutting down the opposing team's top three receivers with three players then covering that TE or RB suddenly becomes a lot easier while also dialing up pressure with your remaining 8 guys.

    Also, it's important to point out that the Fins had Iggy rated the #1 corner in the draft...so it really doesn't matter what other boards or outside sources thought about the pick.
     
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  17. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Slot CB is a starting position in the NFL generally and in particular for the Dolphins. We have 5 or more defensive backs on the field around 70% of the time.
     
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  18. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Really? I didn't know that. Sweet!
     
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  19. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Active Member

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    So are safeties generally bigger than CBS?
     
  20. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Yes, traditionally. Usually heavier and bulkier.
     
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  21. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Active Member

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    Thanks.

    Is that because safeties have to tackle TEs and RBs, as well as receivers, whereas CBs, more often than not, only cover WRs?
     
  22. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    It depends on the system, whether they're playing free safety or strong safety, and has changed quite a bit recently. On some teams, for a long time, strong safetys were almost an extra linebacker. You had guys like Steve Atwater and Rodney Harrison, who were over 6'1", 220 lbs. Sometimes guys who were even bigger and hit like a truck. And then often the free safety was a faster, more agile player, but still bigger than the corners.

    Back when I started following the NFL very closely about 30 years ago, it wasn't uncommon for CBs to be very short. You'd see guys out there who were under 5'10" all the time, while safetys were almost always over six foot. But corners have evolved to often be taller and stronger, while safetys have evolved to not be quite as big as they used to be (linebackers too, for that matter). These days, there's less of a clear distinction between the two on some teams.

    However, to my original point, Iggy is built more like a corner, with a slimmer frame. He's also extremely fast and plays well in press coverage, so it would be foolish to move him off of the more demanding, and valuable, CB spot if he can develop into a starter there.
     
  23. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Active Member

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    Thank you for the comprehensive reply; it’s very much appreciated.

    The first time I really took any notice of Corner play wa during Super Bowl XIII (it was the only live NFL shown over here at that time). Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes were fantastic for the Raiders that night and Joe Theisman was hardly able to find a receiver all game.

    Then I remember "Neon" Dion, who was brilliant - when he wasn’t playing baseball!
     
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  24. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

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    I played in the Brit League in the 90's and I was a CB. I was quite fast and agile. Unfortunately, we had two other CB's who were faster and more agile, so I ended up at Strong Safety. If you looked at a fixture list now and picked out a few random fixtures, I could tell you exactly what the weather was doing for any of them cos I spent most of the time on my back, staring up at the sky, having been planted there by a strapping 6 foot plus TE coming out of the backfield. :chuckle:
     
  25. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    If true that's actually quite worrying in terms of how Grier evaluates talent and sets up the draft board. I don't know how anybody could rate Iggy above guys like Okudah and CJ Henderson. It explains a lot as to why the dolphins seemed to reach on several picks.
     
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  26. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I had Okudah as the top CB easily, but I wouldn't see it as unreasonable to have Iggy as the top guy among the other CB prospects. Now if if you were specifically looking for a CB that could play the slot Iggy could arguably be the top guy. IMO Okudah is an ideal boundary CB, but he would struggle as a slot. Iggy is seen as very raw but could develop into a guy who could play both slot and boundary. If you value the versatility enough I guess you could have him at the top of your board.
     
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  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We have a full time nickel now with very high upside, great physical play and tackling ability and sticky icky mirroring skills, and those hips, mygoodness they are good, from his reps it looked like he should move to the slot so it’s good to see confirmation about that from his coach,
     
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  28. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Flores often likes to run multiple DB sets. With the NFL becoming more and more of a passing game, having several very good DBs is a great way to start becoming a dominant D and I love that he is good in press. I love press and, imo, the secondary has been much better when playing press. At first I thought the pick was a bit of a reach, but the more I think about it and the more I look into this guy, I am really psyched how good the secondary can be and I think it could be a huge step for us towards becoming a dominant all around D.
     
  29. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone watched a game against the Patriots the past few years? It wasn't defensive lineman or linebackers making the big plays.
     
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  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Re-read the article from the OP and similar articles around the web- it's his work ethic on/off the field that made him their #1 choice.
     
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  31. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The quick passing game has shifted the value on defense from pass rush to coverage. Obviously on any given pass play both pass rush and coverage can affect the success or failure of that pass play. In the past I would have argued that pass rush was more important b/c the rules skewed the advantage to receivers and there was no defense for a perfect pass. But the increase in prevalence of the quick pass game makes the pass rush a non-factor on an increasing number of pass plays. Reality is that So more and more often the only factor that can disrupt a pass offense is coverage. My guess is that reasoning is at the heart of Flores' defensive philosophy.

    I also think that's why we see a DL emphasis on strength and length and the ability to set edge over speed and pass rush ability. I think the primary duty of the DL for our defense is to stop the run and put the offense into tougher passing situations. Then use scheme and DEs reducing inside to generate pass rush in those situations. And obviously better coverage will help the pass rush as well. IMO our inability to set the edge and stop the run was our biggest defensive failure last season. IIRC we allowed over 5 YPC on the edges last season. Our inability to consistently stop the run put us in less favorable situations on passing downs. I see that as the repeating pattern for our defensive struggles last season.

    I saw our rebuild as logically structured towards those ends. Ogbah is the perfect fit as the strong, lengthy guy that can set the edge and stop the run. He's not a great pass rusher, but he'll probably get you 5-7 sacks year in and year out. Lawson is not as lengthy but is a good run defender and a slightly better pass rusher. His sack totals don't reflect that but IMO he has a better repertoire of pass rush moves and the Dolphins hope to be getting an ascending player here. I see Zach Sieler as fitting the same model (6'6" and strong) and flashed for us in that role after we got him in December. And you could probably add Van Noy in there as he was great at setting the edge in NE and will play the same role here (I expect him to play DE when the other DEs reduce down). You add in guys like Byron Jones and Iggy who excel in press coverage and had great passer ratings against numbers and you can see the plan to stop the run on early downs, put the offense in tougher pass situations and get stops with great coverage and scheme driven pass rush to get stops and get the defense off the field.

    There were other additions in both FA and the draft that will provide depth and fit more specialized roles in terms of pass rush and coverage, but I see the group above as the core of our defensive plan going forward.
     
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  32. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Work ethic is good, but focusing too much on work ethic is how you get busts like Charles Harris. It's not like Okuda and Henderson have any work ethic issues either, but they have more talent and technique than Iggy so I still don't get how they rated him #1.
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Henderson is not a physical corner, IG-B much better against the run, much more physical corner, Henderson has excellent mirroring traits, but maybe they wanted the more well rounded corner.
     
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  34. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This kid is a great player... I think everyone is going to be surprised how good he really is... And to think on this team he will be fighting to get on the field... We have Needham who proved last year he could step up and be a solid #2 corner.
     
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  35. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm a gator fan, but Henderson was not as good against the run. Flores has often listed that ability among the most important for a CB. I don't believe that Henderson was high on Miami's board.
     
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  36. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yep. I agree with all you said, brotha'. True. Good stuff. I always thought that was their philosophy and approach and it's great that these guys are forward thinkers and stay ahead of the curve or whatever. Also, I was going to make a thread about these off season signings being about setting the edge, but then Ronin beat me to it. Ha. Seriously. That was definitely their plan, especially with the off season signings.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
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  37. IdrA

    IdrA Rebuilding for Eternity.

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    We'll see how it pans out. For now my opinion is I don't like the positional pick (over others.) It's nothing personal against Igbinoghene, and I hope he has a great Pro career. However I believe there was a few S on the board, a WR or two that could have been more than serviceable. A DT that could have been easily turned into a 4-3 guy.

    And yes I concur being deep at corner for 3 or 4 sets is valuable. That's a hole I would have filled in a later round if not next draft.

    So I suppose time will tell on the matter. Most people don't think we're gonna be any good in 20-21 season anyway. If that turns out to be true it's not much of a big deal.
     
  38. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My understanding is that our target was Aiyuk but SF jumped us to take him. I had Antoine Winfield Jr. as one of my favorites in this draft. I would not have complained if we had taken him here either. But I prefer Iggy to the DL options available at that point.
     
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  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Objective of any draft is to take the player that will become the best player..

    I see all this talk out there that he’s just so raw, and how we should of picked a player that would help us sooner, we’ll, that’s not how you draft, upside is the name of the game, kid has first round upside.

    Absolutely the same think with Austin Jackson..upside is he could be better than all the tackles that went before him.
     
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  40. Losferwords

    Losferwords Member

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    yawn... only Chris 'reach" Grier would waste the 18th and 30th picks on "projections".
     
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