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AP source: Dolphins owner mulling possible shakeup (Thursday)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by finwin, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    They made the decision that they would rather have McDaniels.
     
  2. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    I have a question for you guys asking for decisiveness. Would you have applauded Ross for his decisiveness if right after the game he said everyone was coming back for next year or would you only want decisiveness if it gives you what you wanted?
     
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  3. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    It would show that he's decisively stupid.
     
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  4. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    Exactly. You don't care about his decisiveness. You have your opinion on what he should do and if he doesnt do that you are gonna call him a buffoon. This "decisiveness" argument is just another thing for fans to complain about the dolphins.
     
  5. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    The facts are that he has a GM under his employ that hasn't had a winning season in 5 years, there's nothing to think about when it comes to that decision.
     
  6. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    Thats an extremely simplified answer to a much more complex situation. There are coaching ramifications to that decision and a lot of other things that go on behind the scenes that you have no idea about. Its not as easy as just firing a guy like you think it is.
     
  7. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any other excuses?
     
  8. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    Also complain about the team success all you want and obviously he has completely failed with the LB moves last year and the O-line, but he has given us a franchise QB, 2 RB's who will show their ability when they play behind guys who can block, one of the best DL's in the league. A talented secondary filled with 3 different guys (2 starters) who were drafted in the 5th round or later.

    Say what you want and he obviously hasn't given us a winner yet, but there is a reason why this job will look attractive to guys when it becomes open. He has definitely given us some solid talent.
     
  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    in other words every year he gives us a swiss cheese team full of holes. we need a GM who can keep the good pieces and plug up the holes
     
  10. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill is not a franchise QB, the two running backs suck and the DL was put together by Parcells.
     
  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Tomorrow is going to be the biggest posting day of the year. Get a good night's rest.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  12. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    ALmost everyone in the NFL scouting community would disagree with you about tannehill. The 2 running backs do not suck as far as running the ball is concerned. WE need a pass catching RB but with competent blocking they would be solid.

    And if you are gonna not give any credit to Ireland even when it is due then there is no point to even talking to you. He was here when we brought in Cam Wake, Odrick, Starks, Vernon, and Dion Jordan.
     
  13. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    I would agree with that. I think people need to stop acting as if we are the 1-15 dolphins he inherited. We are mediocre, obviously. Im not arguing that. But to act as if he hasn't given us talent is stupid. I want him gone but i can also appreciate the solid things he has done.
     
  14. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    He did bring in Vernon, the rest were brought in by Parcells. I'm not even going to waste my time talking about Jordan.
     
  15. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    He was here when those people were brought in and he was GM. You can't pick and choose who you want to decide he is responsible for. He was here when those players were brought in.
     
  16. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Parcells had final say, the only really good players he's brought in without the Tuna are Grimes and Pouncey.
     
  17. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But why go with the offensive linemen we had, when it was obvious in the middle of the preseason that it was a train wreck and we had the cap room to get the help we needed on the free agent market? Why lowball the free agents who worked out and could have helped? Who else is that on, if not Ireland and Philbin?
     
  18. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    That doesnt mean Ireland didn't have any say. If you say Parcells had final say and don't give credit to Ireland how come you want him fired for 5 seasons of mediocrity and not less? You can't have it both ways.
     
  19. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i agree with that. unfortunately its not enough. we dont suck as in the cameron days. we have moved up into perpetual mediocrity. its not enough. we have a solid nucleus but we need a guy who can finish the job, and especially one who can build an offensive line. other than year one we havent had a good offensive line in miami. ireland sucks at picking offensive linemen with anything other than first round picks. we need someone who can find them in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds as well. yes we risk going backwards but purgatory isnt that much better than hell if you ask me and quite a bit more frustrating
     
  20. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    Completely agree with that. I just have a problem with guys like the one I'm arguing acting as if we've had the worst GM in NFL history running our organization for 5 years and that he hasn't done anything or given us any talent on the roster.
     
  21. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i think whats frustrating about this year is everyone and their mother knew that offensive line was going to be a problem and yet ireland did nothing to address it. it doesnt even seem like he tried. and at the end of the year what did us in? the offensive line. i mean you would think he would want to protect the brand new promising qb he brought us wouldnt you? i think people are fed up with some of the stupid moves he's made
     
  22. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    He did do things to address it though. Tyson Clabo was a very good RT for a number of years in Atl who was only released because of cap issues. Who would have thought he would have struggled so much in the first half of the year.

    Jonathan Martin at LT obviously looks awful in retrospect but they were counting on a second round pick from the previous year to get stronger and better and it just didn't happen.
    We already had a pro bowl center and Incognito is a very good guard who got caught in a ridiculous controversy.
    The only thing i disagreed with was not sending the second round pick for Albert.
    I said this at the time but i would have traded the 43rd pick for albert and then taken Cordarrelle Patterson with the 13th or whatever pick we had last year.
     
  23. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Most GMs do things to "address" parts of the team but when your pieces that you put together....with a lot of high draft picks and money......produce one of the worst lines in the history of the NFL you kind of have to be held accountable. The "I didn't know Martin was crap (when he was crap last year and there really wasn't any real reason to think he would just get better) I didn't know Clabo would suck (when he was cut from a team because....he sucked and wasn't worth the money..)" line of excuses doesn't really work.
     
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  24. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Ireland did indeed, but unfortunately, he is addressing the OLine every year. As he does receivers... and linebackers... and this is when he isn't having a PR gaff with some fan or player. He also signed and drafted guys who the coaching staff promoted a guy off the practice squad over.

    Too many wasted second round picks on guys who didn't make the grade, including traded draft picks. Now we're looking to address the OLine, receivers, linebackers, Fullback, etc... again. By all accounts, Philbin wanted Cogs gone after the golf incident and Ireland paid hush money and brought him back... It's time for Ireland to go. Have Gaines act as interim until we find an upgrade for the GM position.
     
  25. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    The thing is, Parcells and Ireland did not inherit 1-15 talent. They inherited a 1-15 team that underachieved by about 5 wins. That team had at least 6 losses that year that were by 3 points or less. The 2007 team is one example of the effect a tremendously poor coaching staff can have on a team. They inherited a 5-6 win team from a talent standpoint, and Ireland has built a 7-8 win team from a talent standpoint in 6 years.
     
  26. Robert Horry

    Robert Horry New Member

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    Please just get rid of Sherman at least. The amount of inane call was absurd. I don't understand Philbin. I have no idea what he actually brings to the table. He has a pretty damn high football IQ though, which makes no sense why he he can't come up with strategic game plans.
     
  27. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    well at this rate in 24 years we'll have a super bowl champion
     
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  28. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you remember the preseason, you'll see why this analysis is dead on. They kept plugging in different personnel and backups in order to find the "best five," so the starters got no cohesion, the backs couldn't run, and the offense didn't move. Then they plugged in the "starters" toward the latter part of the preseason, and there was no difference -- still no offense.

    By the last preseason game, it was obvious that the o-line wasn't competitive, and they began bringing in free agents. They all got lowballed by Ireland, who couldn't get any deal done, and he and Philbin, despite having plenty of cap room, went forward on what they hoped would happen -- the o-line would gell and get better -- and they went into the season with an o-line they knew could not do the job.

    That was totally irresponsible, it was the cause of our troubles, and it was avoidable. I doubt that Bullygate happens if Martin is sitting on the bench and Albert is playing left tackle. Ireland and Philbin both need to be held accountable for this lapse in judgment.
     
  29. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    The problem here is a bit chicken and egg. A) rarely does a coach take average talent and make him a great or above average player; often average QBs can win but that's because the other parts of the team are incredible (e.g., Ravens). B) if the QB gets really good - was it the QB or the OC? Chicken/egg scenario.

    Unless you go with a fired coach as OC (the younger Shanahan or Kubiak - both of whom may see Miami as a poison and Philbin as lame duck and may turn down for future greener pastures), you will have to go with someone under the OC designation.

    One such possibility, since the Saints were mentioned, is Joe Lombardi. He's been the QB coach in NO since 2009. So, he knows the offense, he knows what good coaching and QB play is, etc. He would be ideal as an OC.

    However, again, as noted above, if Philbin is viewed as lame-duck is a guy like Lombardi really going to take an OC job, move his family to Miami, only to be possibly fired the next year? That is not likely going to happen unless he's given a big contract and even then he may turn it down.

    It's a dilemma and I doubt Ross is thinking through all this much at all right now.
     
  30. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Agreed. I've been saying this for a while. Everyone knew even before the draft that it was the issue for the team (once Wallace was signed) and Ireland nearly ignored it completely.

    Here's what Ireland does: he drafts a non-first-round player. Then he believes in the player (because, after all, he drafted him!). So, even if the player sucks his first year, JI will not seek to change anything and will expect that player to step into a starting role in his 2nd or 3rd year (or at least get a lot of PT if it is a platoon-able position). And, he doesn't bother to go after a significant upgrade because he is plugging that pick into a starting role based on his belief in his own ability to have made good selections.

    This might be a decent strategy if you are Ozzie Newsome. Or Bill Belichick. Or the Green Bay brass. They have a proven track record.

    It is not a decent strategy with JI and it is why he needs to go. I can almost see him around draft time if he is still with Miami:

    "Okay, well, we drafted Dallas Thomas pretty high last year, so he should be able to plug in at LG or LT (since we chose not to re-sign McKinnie). So, that's one position taken care of."
    (And we all know that is utter nonsense to approach it that way given Thomas could not crack the line in a year they gave up one of the top ten worst sack totals in NFL history!

    Then, when he's interviewed on the NFL Network at the Combine or after the draft, he'll be asked about not going after linemen like crazy, and he'll say something like, "Well, the fans need to remember we drafted Dallas Thomas last year and we expect him to be a good player for us."

    Again, utter nonsense.
     
  31. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    It is very feasible to get rid of Ireland and let Brian Gaine step into his slot (he's already going to be under contract but you could add a year on).

    Then, it's put up or shut up for the entire ORG from Gaine down to the water boy.

    This gives Philbin another chance. It gives RT continuity (though Sherman must go as well). It gets rid of Mr. Dysfunctional. And, then it frees the team to be fully prepared Next Year (apparently they were not this year :rolleyes: ).
     
  32. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Well today we may know.
     
  33. I'm not holding my breath
     
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  34. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    According to Joe Rose, Ross is in town and will be meeting with Philbin today, possibly ireland as well.

    Armando is also reporting that the firing of assistants is the main coaching issue. Ross supposedly wants Sherman, at the minimum, replaced. Ross technically doesn't have to do so since he has contractual authority over his staff. If he refuses, then Philbin's job is in jeopardy
     
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  35. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Turner and Coyle had better be on that list at a minimum as well.
     
  36. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    Old habits?

    Hey, I want some change.
     
  37. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I think Coyle can be maintained if he simply makes an effort to change his late game play calling. He hasn't been terrible.
     
  38. JamesyEsq

    JamesyEsq Active Member

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    I really think at most Sherman will go, undramatic day ahead
     
  39. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In some ways Coyle is worse than Sherman.

    Unlike sherman, Coyle actually has a lot of talent on his side of the ball yet the unit got worse.

    I understand the LB swap hurt the run defense but it dropped off way more than it should have. Some of his concepts made no sense, particularly on the d-line and his playcalling at times was bad as Sherman. I am still steamed about the Carolina game where if we either don't let them score before the half, or stop them on a 4th down we are in the playoffs today.
     
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  40. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Thats a really good point. He took a unit with a great dline, and good corners, decent young safetys and turned it into crap. I think a lot of it was how he used the linebackers. They are terrible, but also used wrong imo.
     

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