As opposed to not letting him develop? Do you mean that as not starting him or by giving up on him entirely? My point is that you aren't done developing a guy just because he is 2nd string. He is cplaying like crap, but his potential is higher, so of course you want him to develop. Nonethelss, you can't cost the whole team just so one guy doesn't have to develop as second string instead of first string. Like I said, I believe this kid will be good... but that's future tense, and in the meantime we should start someone who doesn't hurt our offense majorly.
The thing of it is though, the Jerry we saw at OT last season was better than the Martin we are seeing now. Sure, Jerry looks like he swallowed an entire KFC, but he was that large last season, and moved well enough in pass pro to be serviceable at LT, let alone the supposedly more natural RT he played at Ole Miss.
If you are expecting any type of major improvement, you will likely be disappointed. The position will be a weak one for at least a few games, but I don't think its anything catastrophic. Winning teams regularly put out bad tackles, its really just a matter of other areas overcoming.
What I'm saying is, let the guy play. I don't know if he's going to be all that good, however. I think you're going to have similar problems with both of them. If I had to bet, I'd take my chances on Martin developer quicker.
I think you keep him in there and you work intensively with him to correct his deficiencies. At some point you have to realize you spent a big resource on the guy and make it work. These coaches get paid to do this. If you fold up your tent on Martin at this point, when would you be willing to put the coaching in on any second-round pick?
You honestly wouldn't call his impact on the offense last game catastrophic? If you swapped him out with a RT who performed 'average' (whatever the hell PFF would consider that),, do you not think we would have moved the ball better, scored more, and so on?
Line up Fasano next to Martin until Martin improves. He's not going to get good enough sitting on the sidelines
Exactly. This isn't anything that good coaches deal with it regularly. The reality is that having 5 good starters on your OL is pretty rare. It will come down to the coaches working around it and the QB being aware of it.
One other possibility is to run some read-option plays at the right side early in the game to get the LDE thinking about that when the QB is in shotgun, which would slow him down a bit. Middle screens would do the same thing. Slow down that rusher that's coming at Martin.
Yeah I agree with the last few posters, you kind of have to cut the guy some slack. He's a rookie who played 2 NFL preseason games at a position he has never played before, this should be expected.
Jerry already has more development from an actual production standpoint. Martin has more upside, but today Jerry is further along. Last season in the final 3 games he logged 91 pass blocking snaps at LT, and allowed 1 sack, 2 hits and 8 hurries. We'd all cream our jeans if Martin could have a 3 game run like that right now.
Pretty soon he wouldn't have any body of work to correct and build on. I'd say that's pretty much folding up your tent. Come the regular season the #2s don't do a whole lot.
Great point. Good coaches will find a way to maximize their opportunities with the hand they're dealt.
It would be nice to approach one regular season without massive glaring holes somewhere on offense. Just once.
The guy is a second-round pick, and we have nobody better behind him. You give him the work he can build on IMO. Let the guy play and improve. The guy is getting every snap in these preseason games for a reason. They want a condensed, intensive period of learning for him. There's no reason why that shouldn't continue IMO.
I'm not interested in what is fair between the two of them. I'd like to see us put the best possible OL on the field. Jerry may not have more upside, but he has more experience and has already proven he can be serviceable as a OT in this league. Martin has given no indication he is even slightly improving to this point. In fact, I'd say he regressed from week 1 to week 2. Yes maybe he'll make a huge leap over the next two weeks in his level of play, but should we take that chance while we have an already somewhat proven OT in a reserve role who has shown that he can do a solid job?
- It's getting RBs and QBs beat, stuff, hit, hurried, tipped and generally destroying their habits, rhythm confidence and ability to get first downs, completions and touchdowns. Other than that though....
They have to work around him. This is a second-round pick with nobody better behind him. He has to stay on the field IMO.
No one is judging him for being a rookie. But there are 10 other guys out there who need to get a job done and we could find them an 11th who doesn't hamstring them for now while ol Martin improves. Rookies don't improve solely from game experience. It's a huge benefit, but they also practice, study and watch film, not to mention get coaching daily from their position guy. We can develop him but start someone else.
Maybe nobody with more potential, but we have players who can perform better right now. Don't worry, you'll probably get your wish. Martin did not have to compete with Murtha or anyone else to be the starting RT. He walked into camp and was handed the job the first day. He earned nothing IMO. The coaches will probably feel benching him now would cause them to lose face, so they'll go on with their quest to make a decent RT out of Martin. Someday he may get there, let's just hope we don't have any QB get needlessly injured because of his ineptitude in the meantime.
Thank you. Not sure how it's being made out that way. He simply isn't ready to start, so let him get ready without hurting the whole team.
Martin has been a very obvious weak link on offense the first two games. I see no indication he'll get any better the next two preseason games. The reason I compare is because IMO there are players on the roster right now, who could perform better at right tackle for us, right now.
Why are you trying to compare something that has factually happened with 'what if' speculation? No one is saying what 'can' and 'can't' happen. Clean's point is there is a decent, proven body of historical work versus a much smaller, much worse body of work. Maybe Hartline has a big year. Maybe Miller breaks 1000 yards. Maybe what's your point saying "maybe, what if, who's to say" in this argument?
The problem is you shouldn't draft a rookie to hold down a starting position from day one, especially at a position he's never played before. Occasionally they prove able, but it's rare. I think we're waiting for TC cuts or some sort of low-level trade. There's nothing good on the wire.
Another thing I see them do is not keep playing guys who drastically underperform and are inconsistent at their position. Can't imagine Belichick saying, "No, don;t look at any other RTs. I am all in on Martin this season. Bank it."
Some would say "Yes, we absolutely should take that chance." I tend to agree with you. At worst, Martin could push his way back into the starting lineup by actually proving he is good enough. They put Tannehill at #3 on the depth chart and he EARNED his way up to starting over the experienced guys (except the injured guy. lol.) Why is that not acceptable for Martin? I don;t get how he is entitled to this 1st String spot and couldn;t possibly work his way back up to 1st strong later by, you know, earning it on the field.
But there is no reason they shouldn't be prioritizing finding a better option in case he does NOT improve. Which brings me back to my original point... We are debating if JOHn JERRY could be an upgrade for God's sake. There HAVE to be multiple players at John Jerry's level or better around the league for whom we could try to trade, or pick up once cut. We aren;t talking about ProBowl level... just someone who is not a massive liability. Bring them in, get them up to speed in case Martin does not improve by the start of the season. If we wait until game two of the regular season, THEN say, "Oh ****, we have a problem"... anyone we bring in will need time to learn the system,gel and so on. We literally may have kissed our season goodbye before that help can contribute. And we want to risk that because, what, we wouldn;t want Jon Martin to be anything but an unquestioned starter no matter how he performs? What exactly has this kid done to earn that right in this league? I LVOE his potential, but TODAY he sucks and we need a backup plan. One capable of protecting our best QB prospect in TWENTY YEARS.
TOTALLY agree Poco! Ireland HAS to know a move needs to happen here. People were ready to fire Ireland over his decision to commit to Colombo all season last season. I say he is horrendously irresponsible if he doesn't do something to find us a viable second option at RT in case Martin does not show inklings of improvement in the next couple games. How is it fair to tar and feather Ireland for 'lettin' it ride!' on Colombo all year last year as he sat on his hands, but the consensus now is that we should not even consider another right tackle despite Martin (who has proven nothing at this level yet) looking for all the world like he is studying and emulating Colombo '11 tape?
Well, part of my thinking on this is that it won't be Ryan Tannehill out there. It'll be Garrard or Moore.
The thing is from all reports Martin looks great in practice. SO benching him...how exactly can you gauge when he is ready? IMO you bench him and he's there for the season or until injury/horrible play forces him in.
