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Are you happy with Chris Grier?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by mlb1399, Feb 9, 2021.

  1. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I saw a couple of websites evaluating 2020 rookie classes and both had Miami very low. In spite of getting the most reps of any rookie class, we really didnt get any impact players with their 2020 production.

    With 4 picks in the top 50 this year, it got me thinking, do you trust him with those picks and are you satisfied with the job he's done?

    Reviewing History:
    He took over as GM in 2016. That draft he picked Tunsil, Howard, Drake and Grant which I'd call a home run except 2 of them aren't on the team.

    The 2017 draft was almost a complete bust except for Godchaux in the 5th round. I'd be hard pressed to call this anything but a complete failure.

    Our 2018 draft had Minkah, Baker, Gesicki, Smythe, Sanders which I'd call a home run except Minkah isn't on the team any more. I cant blame Grier because Minkah didn't want to buy in.

    In 2019, he took Wilkins, Van Ginkel and Gaskin which is a solid but not great draft.

    Probably the biggest question mark is 2020. So much hinges on Tua which we've got multiple threads on whether he's the answer and I dont want to turn this into one of those debates. Outside of Tua, Davis, Kindley and Hunt look like good picks based on their production and where they were taking. Jackson is young but really struggled last year. Iggy has elite athleticism but showed very little on the field.

    So what say you?
     
  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    He also hired Flores, so I am happy with him so far.
     
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  3. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I've been on board and happy with a lot of the choices that he's made. Probably moreso than anyone who's been in control of that for the Fins since Jimmy retired. I think that he handled the end of the Gase era, the huge teardown, and then the start of the rebuild extremely well and should be commended for that. The question becomes if and how the team now moves from being an average franchise to a good one.

    For negatives, I've certainly questioned his choices early in the draft a few times. Taking Charles Harris over several other options in 2017 was a big one. I also wasn't excited about Christian Wilkins, and wanted him to just trade down there if he could. A lot of what he's done on defense since Flores was hired is clearly catering to what the coach wants, and time will tell if that's the right move. Its not what I would like, ideally.

    And while I'm very happy that he invested in young offensive linemen last year, he now needs to prove that he can bring in quality skill position players. Its something that basically every Fins GM has done a poor job of going on almost twenty years. Fingers crossed.
     
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  4. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I'm good so far, but he needs Tua to work, and really needs to find a few more all-pro level dudes. He's got a bunch of "good" dudes, but we need a few "great" dudes. Really, it's about assembling a team that can take advantage of Tua's 3-5 rookie years when he's on that cheap rookie deal. If Tua doesn't work or he can't assemble that complete team ... well we might be looking elsewhere. Way too early to make that kind of call though.
     
  5. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    You can always second guess a draft,but I think he's done a good job.
     
  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was 1,000% against Chris Grier at the start of his GM tenure, but he has slowly won me over with smart front office moves and bringing in the right people. For me, it's more than just the draft...it's the full product on the field and it is impossible to say that we aren't currently on the right track. While I agree with the original post that Tua may not be the long-term answer (yet to be decided), I still can't argue with a 10-win season and entering this draft absolutely loaded with picks.

    I mean, look at all the 10-win or better teams in the NFL. Which of them will improve the most this off-season? I think it's a no-brainer that the answer is Miami, regardless of who you ask.

    For that reason alone, I'm a fan of Grier and he has my approval 100%. And honestly, that won't change if Tua turns out not to be the answer....there are far too many other positives involved to hold that against him. The only way that changes is if we only win like 4-6 games next season and 2020 turns out to be a fluke. I'm not expecting that though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
  7. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    A GMs career is all about the QB.
    Without the QB u can't sustain success..
    Tua pans out Grier will be here a longtime and if he busts Grier will be gone.
     
  8. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 Mother's Day 2021

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    Yeah as so much will hing on young Tua there. BTW just need to get to the playoffs. Really the team has been given on such a very raw deal by the league. Due to not making the playoffs. Even at last year's 10-6! Something is wrong there!
     
  9. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Evidence still coming in. Let's see what he does with year two of the rebuild.
     
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  10. Simon

    Simon The Other English Simon Club Member

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    You're 100% right, it's more than just the draft. His drafts have largely been pretty good (with the occasional whiff, eg Charles Harris) but we have to look at everything else too. He hit a home run with Flores (when everyone seemed to be clamoring for Kris Richard) and has changed and built a culture which has set us up to win. There have been some brave personnel decisions (eg trading away Tunsil), some questionable moves (eg trading for Rosen), but overall he has clearly had a firm vision in his mind of what he wants the Fins to be and is well on the road to achieving it.
     
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  11. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    A GM’s career is all about the wins. You can debate left and right about the quarterback but if the team is winning, the GM is going to be around for quite some time, regardless of who is under center.
     
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  12. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Gotta admit, I thought there would be more dissent with Grier.

    Completely agree with the hiring of Flores, the direction of the franchise and being ahead of schedule.

    If he doesn’t turn the Tunsil and Minkah trades into impact/pro bowl players, his drafting will be questioned. This is the year where he needs to hit some home runs and see our 1sts from last year make major strides.

    As we’ve seen with our history, you can’t make up for bad drafting with FA. Maybe I should have changed the focus of this thread to how would you grade his drafting.
     
  13. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Wins yes, but also stability and how well the team is build all around. I think that there are times where a GM does his job really well, only for things to be screwed up by the head coach. You have to be able to look at all of the details, and not just lump them together.

    Its like buying all of the best ingredients in just the right way, and then having an idiot chef still ruin the meal. Thankfully, that doesn't seem like its the case with the Fins right now regardless.
     
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  14. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely.

    When Gase was fired, the roster was in disarray.

    He literally hired a defensive genius, and we currently have arguably the best defense in football, and if not, certainly a top 5 defense.

    Conceptually, I love the way that he is building the offense. He has found a QB and has worked from the trenches outward. I expect to see some more offensive weapons added this offseason.

    Here is the thing though. I think he is at a defining moment in his tenure. He drafted Tua, and there is certainly doubts. Watson and other vets are seemingly available, and on a side not, I absolutely love Zach Wilson. I think he is an absolute lock and could potentially be available at 3.

    He has decide - and be right - about Tua. Was the pick a mistake? Or was it a case of a guy coming off of a serious injury and Covid costing him valuable developmental time in the preseason?

    Tua and Tannehill are similar in my mind because both of them had moments in which I was like "things are starting to click," and they also have had moments where they did not look like they should have been on the field.
     
  15. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Said it on draft day and will say it again...drafting Tua over Herbert was a big mistake. I assume that falls on Grier, although I've heard Ross may have had a heavy hand in that pick. Anyway, other than that I'm pretty happy with the direction the team is headed. It's put up or shut up time though. He really needs to manage the draft well (i.e., moving up or moving back) along with any FA signings too of course.

    Bottom line, we have to hit on all of the early round picks. 4 picks in the first 50 doesn't come along often. Gotta make the most of it.
     
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  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Active Member

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    I'm ecstatic right now. We had 11 picks and 9 contributed in year 1. The first 8 significantly. That has a chance to become a great draft and the hit rate was phenomenal. Add to that getting Lynn Bowden, Jr. essentially for Raekwon McMillan and he nailed the most important draft of this century. Then, bringing in Ogbah, Lawson and Van Noy was significant.

    I'd argue that last year was one of the best foundational drafts in the NFL in a decade. If Tua makes the jump in 2021, there's no way Grier shouldn't get NFL EoY. It's going to be hard to follow up but I'm eager to see what we do next.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I mean, we have the youngest roster in the league and we won 10 games. There's nothing more to really say.
     
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  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    While completely remaking the roster.
     
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  19. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Active Member

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  20. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    YES!
     
  21. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    No , not at all for me. He simply has not been good nor good enough.

    It isn’t about being mediocre or getting some things or decisions right imo. I’ve said for decades you shouldn’t judge someone, Player or executive being better or comparable to middle of the pack. That gets you mediocrity not championships.

    He is another prime example of the Peter Principle to me. That’s again not saying some moves weren’t ok or even good. Just not NEARLY enough of them. Last years draft is a prime example. Miami through no true excellence of Grier had an opportunity to truly lay the needed groundwork of sustained ultimate success. He/ they didn’t. A lot of high assets under returned for the cost. I suspect/ fear the same for this season. He was entrusted with the best chance Miami has had since Marino & Shula and I think we’ll look back in a couple years and lament that wasn’t handled as well as it should have been. Needed to be in order to elevate to being a top tier consistent franchise season after season.

    I know most here think he’s more than fine but facts are real and they will be in the future as well. We’ll see but I expect and suspect when looking back we’ll all wish this era we’re in was handled much differently and better.
     
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  22. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    You say they under-returned, but the reality is that a rookie not performing at an all-star level immediately is the norm. To say that we didn't have a foundation laid is not true, though not necessarily false. All three of our picks were expected to need a year or two before they really start to emerge, none were projected as immediate studs. This was considered fine because the team itself was not really expected to be a real playoff contender. Due to the ramp up of expectations now, I do think the need for immediate performance is more necessary this year however, which is why guys like Sewell, Smith or Harris appeal as first rounders. If we take a bunch of raw projects and fail to reach the playoffs again, the seat starts getting warm.
     
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  23. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s more that of our 3 1st rounders, one wasn’t good enough to start(also we have a great corner and a solid one) and 2 were in the bottom 5-10% of people that started at their position. Not to say they won’t improve but we can’t survive drafts like 2017.

    Overall, Flores hire was an A+, free agent signings B+ and drafting C/C-.
     
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  24. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    I'll judge Grier mostly on the QB. If Tua becomes a true franchise QB, then Miami is on the path to sustained success. If Tua fails, then the rest of the picks and money spent on building the rest of the team is going to be mostly wasted.

    Once again, look at the Bears and how getting the QB wrong has wasted the rest of the team -and how they are flailing around for a new QB now, hoping to somehow, someway, find success.

    The trade for Rosen was a mistake, and that was WITH a year of NFL film to study -yet Grier got it wrong. The cost for getting it wrong with Tua will be MUCH higher though. Balance that with getting a good-great coach in Flores, and I guess Grier could get another shot at finding a QB if Tua fails, but it will be much harder without a top five pick.
     
  25. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    But none of the three were really expected to be high level impact starters. Iggy was the youngest player in the entire NFL and was extremely raw as a corner. He was taken purely because Flores projected his talent 2-3 years down the road. I fully expect the hope is he replaces either Byron or X's contract at that point. Jackson missed time with his bone marrow donation and was definitely behind the top tier of tackles in strength and conditioning for it, but again the projection was for that to catch up to the raw talent after a year or so. Tua of course had the big hip injury that finished most of his junior season and obliterated the offseason.

    We weren't drafting in 2020 FOR 2020, we clearly were drafting for 2021-2022. Now if these guys don't catch up to the raw talent and pan out, we can certainly put the temperature on Grier's seat up. I also think this draft we NEED immediate impact guys and not the high upside raw types we took last year. We NEED a Sewell or Smith high. We NEED a Harris or Humphrey at 18. We NEED a LB in rounds 1-3 who can step in and start next to Baker immediately. If we don't do that and come up short playoff wise, that's a strike, and you don't get too many of those.
     
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  26. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    With regards to last year, almost every draft choice was done with a look to the long term and the future. That meant not being overly concerned with immediate returns. We took the youngest and fourth youngest players in the draft in the first round. We need to give these guys a few years before we can really know and say what we have. Be patient.
     
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  27. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Right or wrong, this will all come down to whether or not Tua becomes a great franchise QB. He better hope he does because, keep in mind, whether or not it was 100% Grier's decision or he combined with some higher cabal, power wealth, dumbo looking mofo'er's influence, they passed on my boy Herbert to take Tua and Herbert has been absolutely lights out. He has been everything you hope for in a franchise QB. (as I predicted :tongue:). So, Grier & Co passed on him to take Tua and Tua has looked...uhhhh....not so good. It will always be the biggest spot on Grier's resume. It will make or break him.
     
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  28. Drizzy

    Drizzy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'll be happy when he trades for Watson
     
  29. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Actually it won't.

    All GM's have hits and misses. The ones with the most misses and lack of team success are eventually jettisoned. The ones with fewer misses but that do have team success (post season games are my measure of this success) are kept on.
     
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  30. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it most certainly will. Considering how long this franchise has been searching for that guy since Danny boy retired and they had a chance at an apparent great, franchise QB who was there for the taking at their pick and they passed on him for a much lesser QB, who may end up not being a great QB and may end up being, god forbid, a bust, yes, that will certainly "break" him. No doubt. Post season games is your measure for their success? Well.........uhhhh.
    ...and I have no doubt that if they had drafted Herbert, the team would have been in the playoffs and contending for a championship.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
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  31. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused by your post.

    At first you disagree with me and state your reasons. Emotionally based reasons, but reasons non the less.

    Then you end up pointing out (sarcastically) that I consider post season games a measure of success.

    Then you say if your favorite pick (Herbert) had been selected we would have been in the playoffs and contending for a championship.

    By doing all this in one post you water down your basis for disagreement but still continue to disagree.

    I don't get it.
     
  32. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    I nominate this post for the Understatement of the Decade Award!
     
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  33. Fishhead

    Fishhead Active Member

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    I don’t think any quarterback would have had us contending for a championship this year with the receiving corps available to them, especially after all the injuries.
     
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  34. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    So far I'm happy with him, but I'm really interested to see, what he does this Offseason and especially in the Draft, if we don't go the Watson route.
     
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  35. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    .....huh?

    :drink:
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
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  36. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    The team was 10 and 6. You don't think a very good and much better QB would have helped the team get one more win?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
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  37. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    The sad thing is that I believe you - LOL
     
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  38. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    ha......:butthead: :drink:
     
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  39. Fishhead

    Fishhead Active Member

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    One more win? Sure.
    Making through the AFC playoffs? Nope.
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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