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Baker Mayfield

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by 2socks, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    I agree that a good QB in college does not mean he will be a good QB in the NFL. But..., all BM could do was what he could do. 70% completion rate says the guy puts the football where other guys could catch it. The NFL talent curve applies to all of them equally.

    Again, the knock on BM is size. I haven't seen one credible scout say he has a problem with accuracy. He has incredible pocket awareness. Here was a (obviously friendly, but still true) write up after the Ohio St game:
    "When facing pressure in the second half against the Buckeyes, Mayfield was 7-of-10 passing for 137 yards and a touchdown, according to ESPN Stats & Info. He put up those numbers against a defensive line that Ohio State defensive coordinator Greg Schiano said was better than some NFL defensive lines he has coached."

    If he's there at 11...IMO, its a no brainer. I doubt he will be, because the Bills or Cardinals are going to trade up. Hell, he could be the first QB off the board. But to get a QB like him and be able to sit him for a year behind Tannehill would be a boon for this franchise.
     
  2. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I saw Baker, in high school, from about 5 yards deep in his end zone, running to his left and with a defender in his face, throw the ball 55-60 yards in the air.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  3. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where this idea that he lacks arm strength is coming from.His arm is plenty strong enough.
     
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  4. Base of Gase

    Base of Gase Active Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    How in the hell are you allowed to be within a 100 feet of a school?
     
  6. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I know some peeps
     
  7. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    I gave that a like because it was a very good argument, spoke to the topic, not a personal issue. Not that I agree with all of it but well done, thank you.
     
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  8. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Your argument is based on the idea that coaches will not tailor their offense to their QB's strengths and that spread in the NFL is a gimmick.

    What happens when Chad Henne can't go through his progressions after 4 years in a pro-style offense at Michigan? What happens when Paxton Lynch's height and arm strength utterly fail to translate to the NFL? Why do spread QBs fail because they played in spread, but bad pro-style ones are just bad on their merits? It's called confirmation bias.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2018
  9. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    exactly...Most QBs drafted fail. Tall, short, pro style, spread...
     
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  10. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jeez, that's a depressing list - Jamar Fletcher!?! Brees should have been top 5 looking at that list
     
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  11. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just have to look at our own Dan Marino in terms of moving around the pocket to buy time - no one better than that for someone with limited running ability
     
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  12. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Definitely disagree there. I have said before, I think Rosen has the best arm talent in this draft. I think hes the best pure passer and the most ready day one. But his presence in the pocket scares me. I don't think its very good. I think its very Tannehill like honestly.
     
  13. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    find where I said the spread is a "gimmick"

    you can't.

    you keep trying to put words in my mouth.

    now if you are asking me if I think the nfl will catch up with the rpo based offense and spread concepts the more they see it I think that's a possibility. they seem to catch up with everything...

    wait for it...

    a little longer...

    not named pre snap and progression read.

    there's a reason guys like brady, and peyton manning, and drew brees have the longest highest level shelf life...

    and it's isn't running rpo or zone read or wildcat or you name it.

    I will drop out of this now cause I know it's going nowhere and I don't want more words put in my mouth but I will close with how I have the qbs ranked and I do believe this is a quality qb class. one that if I didn't have a qb I'd want to be in on. but I do and he can run any type of offense you want to run with any of these qbs frankly. there isn't an ask out there from the qb he can't do provided his knee off acl surgery holds up. adam gase knows that too.

    in terms of Miami...

    1. josh rosen (ideal scheme fit, pre snap and progression read, placement and accuracy, makes throws off an uneven platform shuffles in the pocket well to find space, durability concerns and possible attitude of which I can't gauge so I will rely on the tape, effortless passer marriage of feet and upper body, solid base)
    2. sam darnold (intangibles, heavy primary read qb if he doesn't like it apt to take off with it as a ball carrier, needs going thru progressions work, looks like something that should come in time, pro style o, forces things at times leads to turnovers)
    3. josh allen (highest ceiling, prototype size and arm that teams fall in love with, pro style, zone read, ideal vertical offense pa shots taker, foot work needs to be sped up loses timing with progressions as a result arm allows him to get away with it in college, wide base effects accuracy, opposite hash effortless, late to feel backside wide pressure and can be flat footed in the pocket at times, boom or bust)
    4. baker Mayfield ("it factor", leader, confidence borderline arrogance, spread system, heavy rpo based at the next level, good feet good pivot, maintains eye level when flushed, lacks size and speed, no game reps in traditional drops from under center making for a heavy projection that he can)
    5. lamar Jackson (athlete, heavy zone read or pistol based o at the next level early on, narrow base effects accuracy, top end speed sub 4.5 to outflank the opposition, quick acceleration to top end speed,best at throwing in breaking routes, plays to contact in college which is a major red flag, shelf life?)

    and to blow minds a little more I think baker Mayfield had the best qb tape of them all in 2017. that doesn't mean I think he's the best pro prospect.

    and I'm out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  14. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I think Chad Henne could have been a much better QB than he turned out to be with better coaching. Sparano made him into check down Chad with his focus on avoiding risks.
     
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  15. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    You and Base of Gase have a real issue with debating people without it getting personal. Using the word gimmick was shorthand for saying less important and viable than traditional offensive schemes. It wasn't meant as a way to put words in your mouth but you got very sensitive for some reason. I won't address the rest since you're doing a drive-by response; giving me a wall of text then telling me you won't go any further. If you're done, just be done.
     
  16. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    You can't run the collegiate Spread in the NFL. You can add it's concepts, and wrinkles to an NFL offensive installation, but the collegiate Spread can't stand alone. Few basic examples to illustrate that: 1)NFL is to fast, 2) hash marks are smaller, 3) You can't subject your QB to such a high percentage of hits.
     
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  17. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    There you go trying to paint a picture with me again.

    I’m not interested boss.

    I get it. You are all in on baker mayfield. To each his own
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
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  18. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I'm not of the opinion that Mike Leach can just bring the Air Raid to the NFL. I think conceptually, the spread can be incorporated into the NFL and QB's can be aided by that. Nick Foles played in a spread in college and the Eagles effectively put together an offense that got him a Super Bowl MVP. I keep needing to go back to my overarching point because people seem enamored with needling insignificant ones; there's really no empirical basis to assume a spread or a short QB is going to do particularly worse because of those attributes.
     
  19. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Wow, you're kidding right? You posted a wall of text then told me you wouldn't respond. I used the word gimmick, probably inaccurately, and you made it seem like I was trying to misrepresent your opinion. You really need to take this less serious.
     
  20. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Stoops has one of the more complicated offensive playbooks in the NCAA.
     
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  21. Base of Gase

    Base of Gase Active Member

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    It seems so charming shooting a volley of passive aggressive arrows from the lofty confines of an Ivory Tower constructed entirely of glass.

    Carry on...

    Your condescending slapstick is on the same level of the three-headed hydra that you’re imitating, almost verbatim.

    Oh, and post #353 still stands. That didn’t magically disappear, just because you went off on a reckless tangent.
     
  22. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Man, thread thoroughly hijacked!! :2guns:
     
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  23. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Well-Known Member

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    Can someone explain to me in most of the lists I've seen elsewhere for the best QB's in this class Rosen is always 2nd and yet the others seemingly rotate around? Is it that he's good at a lot of things but great at none? Or is he just lacks an obvious deficit and so ends up above most of the others?
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Mayfield is brilliant against the blitz... something like a 200 QBR when facing the blitz..just has that knack to identify the hot or simplay improv a little and get it out so quick..Love how he makes a defense pay if they get upfield too quickly and leave lanes open..
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have Rosen being underrated when it comes to how he navigates in the pocket, I like the way he scrambles and anticipates rush.
     
  26. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It's coming from people who don't understand arm strength.
     
  27. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    I think so, right? Even the most cursory look at film shows a guy who has adequate arm strength to excel at this position. Sometimes "narratives" take on a life of their own independent of facts or evidence.

    He's big enough, his arm strength is more than adequate, he has enough pocket awareness. Will he put in the work and dedicate himself to being great at this craft? That is a subjective question that no one can answer (about any of these guys). But the idea that he lacks physical skills is perplexing.
     
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  28. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Because he has the best arm talent in the draft. People don't question that. They question his drive and injury history mostly.
     
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  29. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I don't like it personally. I think he takes way too many hits in the pocket. He, like Tannehill, can move and they are both light on their feet, but like Tannehill I just don't think he FEELS it well. So it leads to unnecessary hits and sacks. Just my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  30. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    and that's in a very very over rated pac 12 conference, he is going to struggle in the league he reminds me of cutler.
     
  31. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  32. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Bingo. Processing speed, decision-making, timing, anticipation, velocity. All more important than being able to chuck the ball 70 something yards down the field, especially the last key word there in bold in comparison to arm strength.
     
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  33. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Am I crazy for thinking were wasting time with the holes we need to fill working out Baker Mayfield? We have zero chance of getting him at 11 and we would have to give us so much to jump up to get him. We just let Suh go and have a massive hole on the Dline that needs fixing immediately.
     
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  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I disagree with zero chance. Of all the top 4/5 QBs he is the one that is most likely to fall. He doesn't have the QB body and he has some maturity issues. Enough teams before have "Good enough" QBs and there is enough QB talent in this draft to get a good prospect in the 2nd round. There is also some great talent in the beginning of this draft in some positions that do not have a lot of depth.

    I am not saying there is a good chance, however, there is enough of a chance to get to know him. You do not draft a QB without meeting him.
     
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  35. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Dree Brees say hello!
     
  36. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Miami plucked baker at 11

    Would surprise me if Miami traded up for him.

    We need a plan b with upside in the building and as boomer already alluded the 2019 class doesn’t look to be very good at qb
     
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  37. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Please please please please please!!!!!!!
     
  38. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Exactly.

    It's about setting the franchise up for a potential win-win instead of sinking into a QB abyss if we don't draft a guy this year and Tanny doesn't work out.
     
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  39. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    The ability to throw the ball far does not equal arm strength.
     
  40. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Best arm is josh Allen and it’s not close

    That’s probably a once a decade arm
     
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