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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by 2socks, Mar 11, 2018.
They knew we needed the cap space and his skills alone don't warrant an #11/#4 swap.
I believe it was reportedly a two-year contract worth $36 million.
They probally can get out of it if he sucks this year.
Ryan showed anticipation, great touch, and the clutch gene in college. He also showed production with little talent around him against superior talent. I agree, Ryan wasn't the most accurate QB and he has improved on that dramatically. But apples to oranges all things considered with those two QBs.
Not sure on that.
Who knows, given the monstrous guaranteed contract that Cousins inked. That might be a harbinger for more to come in the future.
fyi baker and Miami didn't have dinner last night and miamis showing at his pro day is miniscule per jeff darlington
I doubt Keenum would sign a one year deal so early in free agency unless it was just massive. He would want to cash in on his success with a multi-year plan.
That said, I don't think he's a guy you completely dismiss a draft prospect for. If you really think the world of, say, Josh Allen, Case Keenum isn't keeping me off him. Same thing with Eli. Shurmur is saying the right stuff about him, but will the Giants really pass up a premium QB for Eli?
Also, McShay's mock doesn't include trades. I think it's pretty easy to say the Bills will be making more moves to get ahead of us and get a premium QB. Arizona can't be content with Bradford and Glennon either.
A QB may certainly fall, but I wouldn't build my draft or plans around it.
I’m just saying that it’s not impossible, and can be overcome. Certainly not comparing the two, although to be fair Josh Allen’s Cowboys team last year was a train wreck and lost quality starters on that offense from the year before.
He lost most of his playmakers - Tanner Gentry, Brian Hill, Jacob Hollister, and Jake Maulhardt. It was pretty gutted. All that being said, it could go either way...hard to say. Depends on the team, and if they give him time to develop.
I wouldn't rule out any top 6 team for a draft qb despite the veteran adds they've made. there's a reason they are all signing for one year. those teams are leaving their options open at qb
I let my club membership lapse because I took a hiatus from the NFL. I may come back this season and I'll definitely renew it if so. I'm enjoying this train wreck though.
I agree. Never said I wouldn't draft him. Just wouldn't draft him in the first round.
that's why I said both those and whatever else it took could have been a 5th rounder or whatever but now on draft day your gonna pay a steeper price for that 4th now that you have already traded landry for a pick
people said the same about wetnz?
I think Allen and Mayfield and Falk are the best nfl qb's in this draft watching Allen in their bowl game the guy was on it. add some decent players and speed and you'll see this guy strive. But they have to bring him along like wentz add some known plays from college maybe or keep the scheme the same the guys arm and decisions are top tier.
allen fits the prototype that teams will get in line for. 6 foot 5 237 4.75 speed which keeps the zone read and the threat of the qbs legs in the back pocket.
comes from a pro style o so all the 3 5 and 7 step isn't projection. makes nfl big boy throws on tape all over the place. and completely smashed the combine. teams will talk themselves into his flaws are correctable like the wide base and the slow feet at times with proper coaching. qbs coaches ocs etc.
gets out of the top 5 I'm floored. ceiling is ridiculous. best arm the drafts seen in a while. howlitzer for an arm which allows him to be late at times and get away with it due to foot work that needs to be sped up to stay in sync with route combos and progressions
a team like jax that can live off pa and the run game because the defense is top shelf and you never have to get away from plan a cause the scoreboard never says you do could play that kid right now.
Judging by the amount of people from the Bronco's that were at Mayfield's pro day then if you want the man you know the team you have to get ahead of.
No bodyguards needed here, small fry.
But thanks for looking out for me.
This whole "he had bad playmakers" narrative is so poor. It wasn't their fault that he's monstrously inaccurate. One thing you can't fix is inaccuracy. And it can't be coached up. If you're just over 50% completion percentage, you're not going to become 65% with practice when the athletes are ten times better and the windows are significantly smaller.
I'm grateful for the insight the club members bring down to us. But then for them to have to deal with a guy and his strawman arguements and over literal approach makes me see why they'd stay in club. You can't do anything to help a guy being over literal and strawman arguing. that person will never have an open mind.
It's not like the Mountain West Conference was littered with NFL ready defensive players during his time with Wyoming. Imagine the gap disparity as compared to the NFL and say the SEC.
Allen's going to get a rude awakening and then the question will be whether or not he's able to adjust. What good is a fastball if you can't locate it properly?
Griese finished with a career comp percentage of 56.2. I'm not sure he should be mentioned in a conversation of whether accuracy can be improved.
Would you prefer Joe Montana, another Hall of Fame QB?
College career at Notre Dame 52% CR.
His pro career: 63.2% CR.
But whoahhhhhhh nelly, inaccuracy can’t be fixed! Wait. It looks like it can be fixed, and a quarterback can even go on to the pro level and be very successful. Who knew? Oh, people that actually watch the game of football.
Jim Kelly college career: 55.6% CR
Jim Kelly pro career: 60.1% CR
Brett Favre college career: 52.4% CR
Brett Favre pro career: 62% CR
As I stated earlier, the list goes on and on. This isn’t some foreign concept coming out of left field (well, it is for those that don’t actually watch football).
Nail meet hammer. Absolutely true.
A QB is either accurate, or he's not. You can improve a QB's inherit accuracy by tightening up his throwing motion and correcting footwork, but you'll never overhaul the deficiencies of an inaccurate passer.
It's just one thing I love about Tannehill, along with being a very smart player, he is also incredibly accurate. Can't teach that.
Since you lack decency in addressing others, I'll return the same favor: you're clueless.
Irony is claiming that others don't watch football, while you post box score analyses.
What you're failing to take into account with the QB's you're listing is the system they played in compared to college and the NFL, and players they played with.
Take the "L" and walk away.
Dude, you can’t use accuracy figures from 30 or 40 years ago to buttress your arguments. The passing concepts of todays game are totally different. WCO, spread offence, run and gun to name a few.
Accuracy % is highly correlated to depth of target. It’s a welll known thing. Montana and Favre went from deep ball college programs to West Coast Offences in the pros. Their accuracy didn’t change in a fundamental way, they were throwing shorter.
I’m not up on college football but unless Allen is from a dinosaur era throw the ball 20 yards downfield every snap kind of offense then his accuracy% is a legitimate concern. It’s been well documented that accuracy% is the single best statistical indicator for pro success for college QBs.
“One thing you can't fix is inaccuracy.”
Meanwhile in reality...
Matthew Stafford college career: 57%
Matthew Stafford pro career: 62%
Matt Hasselbeck college career: 55.6%
Matt Hasselbeck pro career: 60.5%
Carson Palmer college career: 59%
Carson Palmer pro career: 62.5%
Tyrod Taylor college career: 57.2%
Tyrod Taylor pro career: 62.4%
While I believe Josh Allen couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, I'm loving Bass of Gase's rhetorical moxy.
I will say, however, the conclusion can only aproach inductive reasoning status. For the simple reason that Bill Walsh actively taught his QB's a philosophy of narrowing one's focus. Ex. Don't aim for the basket, aim for the imaginary coin at the epicenter of the basket. Walsh also drafted Montana because he lofted a beautiful deep ball. In that same year Phil Simms who ironically came out of college at 55%, yet steadily rose throughout his career. The pinnacle being 88% in the Super Bowl. But I digress...
Because of Walsh's imprint, you can't definitively argue one way or the other. Or maybe Boomer can ask Montana, himself...
Base of Gase,
Please stop your antagoning, trollish posting behaviour. This is a message board to discuss topics about our favorite team, not to attack and incite ethug fights.
You might want to read up on the rules of the site.
Thanks and I hope you can change your posting style to let the content speak for your side of the debate and not the name calling.
And yes danmarino and Fin D should also remember the above rule. Even though there initial attempt to explain literal/figurative was done in jest, they definitely took it a bit far.
Anyway, I hope everyone can understand we're a family here and should treat each other as such.
Now let's get back to the Baker Mayfield discussion. I haven't watched much college ball the past couple of years, so I find the educated, friendly debate to be very informative.
Going back to the Denver possibility, have they completely abandoned the Paxton Lynch experiment? Haven't seen anything of him to know if he was a massive reach when he was drafted or whether they still feel that he could be a starter. Just wondering, as if they haven't abandoned him, does anyone think that they could still use another Round 1 pick on a QB?
Are you like seven years old? What an astonishing reply.
Bob Griese. Good God.
My man, I've forgotten more about college football than you're likely to know. Which sucks for you, I know.
Let's take some inaccurate college passers and see how they got on. I mean, for some reason, scouts expected players like Ryan Leaf at 54%, Kyle Boller (48 percent) or Jim Druckenmiller (54 percent) to all of a sudden work out how to complete passes once they hit the NFL. The list goes on and on and on.
Matt Ryan has been used as a guy who reflects why Allen will be a success. Unfortunately without any context whatsoever. Lest we not forget that Ryan played in a downfield passing NFL style offense for a coach who completely abandoned the running game. Ryan threw more passes as a senior than every QB but one in America. BC put it up over and over and over. And opponents knew it. So they played nickel and mainly dime down after down. Facing that kind of offense hurt Ryan's numbers. He was a 59% guy as a senior, but completed 62% the previous two seasons when the team was more balanced.
The Joe Montana thing - guy didn't start till his 5th year, so his numbers in relief duty were skewed. He also played in a system that didn't suit what he did - not a strong arm, not great at driving the ball down the field. What happens? He's inaccurate. In the NFL, he's put in a system that perfectly he fits his style: short passing, WCO offense, using touch, ball control offense with a strong running game in Roger Craig and look what happens. This isn't rocket science. Matt Stafford, also cited as an inaccurate college passer. Lest we not forget that he too ran a deep ball offense at Georgia. Look at his numbers with Detroit throwing down the field to Calvin: far more inaccurate. Yet in comes Jim Bob Cooter, out goes Calvin and all of a sudden he's one of the most accurate passers in the game. But unlike Allen, Stafford has touch. And unlike Allen, some of Stafford's inaccuracy is down to long ball throwing. Josh Allen isn't running a deep ball offense.
Given the teams Allen played against, you'd want his accuracy numbers to be around the Joe Flacco 64% at Delaware State. Not a chance. Touch? No. Allen is a monument to inaccuracy, he was 16-9 his last two seasons and didn't win a single game of importance.
Take a glance at the QB's drafted from 97 to 2013 who didn't complete 60% in their final season:
Jim Druckenmiller, Virginia Tech (54%)
Ryan Leaf, Washington State (55%)
Akili Smith, Oregon (58%)
Cade McNown, UCLA (58%)
Michael Vick, Virginia Tech (54%)
Joey Harrington, Oregon (59%)
Patrick Ramsey, Tulane (57%)
Kyle Boller, California (53%)
Rex Grossman, Florida (57%)
J.P. Losman, Tulane (59%)
Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt (59%)
Brady Quinn (59%)
Matt Ryan (59%)
Josh Freeman (58%)
Jake Locker (55%)
Christian Ponder (56%)
Sensing a theme? Of course there are anomalies. There are in almost every statistical study. Just as there are guys who had success in college with regards accuracy but bombed in the NFL.. But just throwing out names without the context of the style of offense is amateur hour. Let's be better, people. Once furnished with said information, it's far easier to say what I said about the difficulties of fixing accuracy. Again, why is this so tough to grasp?
I've watched every game of Josh Allen's from last season. Every throw. That's an inaccurate passer who is trying to knock down the barn wall with every pass, rather than throw it through the barn window which is the NFL objective.
Suspect Lynch will get moved at some point, probably on or around Draft Day. Although with Trevor Siemian departing yesterday, who knows.
I’m not gonna argue the accuracy stuff. I’ve seen a lot of dropped balls on the tape I watched too.
I’m just gonna say teams are getting in line to see if they can “fix” him.
A vertical offense that works off pa I think can hide some of the accuracy issues. Or at least that would be the ideal fit
When you consider what rookie QBs get paid under the cba relative to 2nd contracts of veteran starters it’s a no brainer to take a chance on a qb. But it’s a double edged sword in that if you don’t get one you are getting fired and if you take the wrong one you are also
NFL teams are notoriously stubborn and consistently fail at draft evaluation.
Yes, that’s very clear.
Yes, ChrisKo things got a little too carried away. I will heed your sensible advice and take it to heart. Thanks for the friendly reminder. You will notice however, that several times in this thread I tried to steer danmarino and Fin D back to the topic at hand, Baker Mayfield. They rebuked that civil notion.
Seems my best course going forward would be to ignore them for the foreseeable future, as I feel they offer nothing substantive in a discussion. I’m sure they feel the same way, so that would be the most prudent action for all parties involved.
I’ve never intentionally ignored anyone on this website, is there a feature in the settings to ignore or block others? I’m on mobile and things look a little differently when browsing here, if that makes any difference.
Who said that?
Certainly is when I'm putting you away every day.