Might this news be related to what's been reported in the Club forum?
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/2013/11/more-buzz-on-incognitomartin-scandal-and-fins-hazing-fins-heat-canes-notes.html
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Howie Long sounds like he's been told exactly what Richie Incognito's father said during his rants. When Howie says, "as major as you can get"...he's referring to suicide attempts.
I know nothing about the validity of Richard Incognito Sr's claims with respect to suicide attempts. I'm just saying that it sounds like Howie has also heard the same. Maybe his source is from Incognito's side.Da 'Fins, Bpk, GreysonWinfield and 1 other person like this. -
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Which makes the whole hazing thing more inexcusable particularly because Incognito was not restrained from making things worse.
BTW there is more that has not been revealed yet.Bpk, SICK, dolfan22 and 1 other person like this. -
vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member
I think at this point....Im wondering how much it really matters.
I think the overall perception, and logically so, is one of two things.
A) Either they knew....in which case, they will be let go.
B) They should have known....in which case, they will be let go.eltos_lightfoot likes this. -
See, people are going to mash all this together and keep saying the dolphins should have known this or that was going to happen.
Let's say they knew Martin was depressed. Let's say he did try suicide and they knew about that as well. Those two things have nothing to do with the Incognito issue.
If they saw Incognito paling around with Martin and Martin carrying on with the pranks and laughing and having a good time, then they probably reasonably thought that he was fitting in and possibly overcoming his depression.
If this news is about his depression, then it certainly points not to Ritchie, but to him being demoted then benched that set him off.Mile High Fin, Da 'Fins, MikeHoncho and 7 others like this. -
What does this have to do with Richie and "harrassment"? I understand that the NFL is unlike regular professions, but its not the team's responsibility to provide Martin any kind of treatment or counseling. That falls on Martin. I'm no expert on privacy of medical conditions, but if he does have some kind of emotional imbalance issues can management not disclose that information to other players on the team?
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If J-Mart had attempted or contemplated suicide and it was known by the team, don't you think it would also have been known by his family? And if it was known by his family, shouldn't they have sought counseling for him? Forget the locker room environment, why would he be allowed to continue in an extremely high pressure job that is publicly critiqued on a weekly basis.
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The Dolphins would not be obligated to inform his family if he didn't wish it.
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There's so much grey area. We don't know what Martin was feeling or what exactly he told Philbin. I highly doubt Martin told Philbin he was clinically depressed and tried committing suicide and Philbin's response was to have someone like Richie Incognito "toughen him up". Not only does that go against Philbin's character but you'd have to be borderline mental to not take serious action in that case. And don't forget Philbin lost a son not too long ago.
Joe Philbin has faults, but he is a high-character guy. There's no way I'd believe he would do something like that. -
Two of the primary questions Ted Wells will seek to answer stuck out at me.
One asked whether the Dolphins knew of any mental issues with Jonathan Martin before the bullying and what steps if any did they take protect him. The other asks why nobody reached out to Martin after he left the team.
Those seemed like loaded questions to me. I'm having trouble finding the questions now though. Can anyone help?Bpk likes this. -
Seems like this keeps getting worse and worse. Members here hinting it will definitely get worse. Going through all the permutations of what could be worse, what's been whispered about, etc. I can only reach one conclusion:
Martin is most likely gay, was being harassed about it, coaches knew. That would be the most heinous thing I could think of. If he was being bullied because of his sexual orientation with coaches and/or front office knowing. -
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The only thing you are obligated to do in this case is to refer him to the mental health facility to get treatment. If I see a patient in the clinic who is having suicidal thoughts, I don't call the police. I call the on call psychiatrist at the mental health facility and get him admitted. I can actually get a 72 hour hold put on people who are suicidal but aren't willing to go to inpatient therapy. -
Here's some stuff I found:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer...nfl-investigation-will-be-sweeping-exhaustive
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In Jason La Canfora's article he mentions specifically that investigators want to know why almost no effort was made to reach out to Jonathan Martin and resolve the issues until they received the explosive voicemails/texts which led them to immediately ask the NFL head office to step in. -
There's a ton of information out there, some have already been confirmed or debunked. Who knows what to think anymore. I still don't think Martin is all that innocent in all this.Mile High Fin and Fin D like this. -
on another note how extensive are the psycho profiles during draft time? Most depressed people I've known are reluctant initially to talk about it. So, depending on that, I could see it not coming out on draft day.
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The investigators are not concerning themselves with players and whether they texted the player. They want to know what involvement the TEAM had or did not have. -
I'm sure it didn't even take other players a month practicing with Martin before they could have read that report and been like, "say what?!?" Murtha seemed to indicate it took a matter of days.unluckyluciano likes this. -
Here's another thing that sticks out to me from a legal perspective. Keep in mind while I'm writing this, I'm not a lawyer nor have any legal experience. The Americans with Disabilities Act (1990) is pretty vague, but this passage sticks out to me:
A lot of it depends on the timeline and what Philbin/ the coaching staff knew or didn't know. But it's possible they could be in violation of this. There has to be at least one attorney here that can chime in on this.ssmiami and ckparrothead like this. -
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Can somebody answer me this honestly? Because it is my biggest nightmare.
Lets say the Wells Report comes back bad, Miami FO knew about it and did nothing, he was bullied etc...you know worst case scenario...
Can Goodell take draft picks at that point? I mean Ross will get fined but I don't care about that...but the draft picks being lost would devastate me I think....
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Here's the text of the entire ADA by the way: http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/ada.cfm -
Keep in mind what they're talking about here. There's a timeline. Martin had an incident in the cafeteria and was excused from practice. Martin and Philbin met that night (Monday) and as a result of that meeting Martin left the team and went to California. About six days later (Sunday) the Dolphins received allegations of misconduct by players on the team and the evidence included was the voicemail transcript and some text messages. At that point the Dolphins contacted the NFL and asked for an independent investigation. Everything the Dolphins did from that point on was with the knowledge that an investigation was going to occur.
The investigators are focusing on the six days. They SEEM to think that very few attempts were made by the team to reach out to Martin or his representatives during those six days. Either you have evidence to refute this, or not...but Joe Philbin visiting him in the hospital is not relevant to that six days. It happened after. Nor is Philbin's flying his family in. If you have anything to suggest that the Dolphins did reach out to Martin during those six days, by all means. I have no dog in this. I'm just reading the tea leaves set out by the investigators who seem to have their minds at least partially made up on a specific issue. -
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