Spoiler i'm doing an oral report on a paper that is based on how religion has effected society/individuals on a psychological/philosophical level. my oral report is going to be on how religion is defined philosophically/scientifically and how people who hold either a belief or no belief have been labeled and how it effects who they are internally and externally. with that being said i obviously need some volunteers because i'm only one person. i have a friend of mine who thankfully volunteered. i need to get another (he's devout christian, she's atheist). pagan you'd be great perspective for this, ohio, fin D, those unsure would be great.. uhh anyone that wants. i have yet to formulate the questions i'm just looking for volunteers. i wouldn't use your guys names or handles or mention this place or anything.. thanks. summary: doing a paper on religious beliefs and how it has effected our lives. haven't thought of the questions yet. need volunteers. anyone willing? ----------------------------- The reason I'm collecting this information is so I can prevent a varied view on beliefs in class. The questions asked are designed for you to explain to me what you believe and how it has effected your life. No one else will know what “you” the person thinks except me and I will not use your name or any personal information in class. I'll say that “I interviewed various beliefs” and “this is how it has effected them in society and in their lives”. I'm using “higher power” to try and keep the terms objective, and not having a belief is still a belief as you would believe in nothing. Thank you for participating. Do you believe in the existence of a higher power? If you do, what conditions are necessary to differentiate it between everything else? If you do not, what is it that does not meet your conditions to believe? How has this belief (or lack thereof) helped you throughout your life (morals, emotions)? If you present your belief in public how do people respond and treat you afterward? What is your opinion on the separation of church and state? What do you think of wars carried out in the name of religion? ... i want you guys to be as detailed as you want to be. the more you give the better it will be. the report is some time in april.
Do you believe in the existence of a higher power? If you do, what conditions are necessary to differentiate it between everything else? If you do not, what is it that does not meet your conditions to believe? I do believe in a higher power. I don't really understand what you mean by "differentiate it between everything else" though. How has this belief (or lack thereof) helped you throughout your life (morals, emotions)? Yes it has, but not to the extent that I base my life and my decisions solely upon what I feel my God & Goddess would expect of me. I don't "live my life for them". I feel they've given me the tools necessary to lead a good life, and I use those tools in order to be a better person. I don't thank them for every little thing that goes right while conveniently ignoring when things go bad. They're not here to referee my life. If you present your belief in public how do people respond and treat you afterward? Oh man we could open a HUGE can of worms on this question. Let's just say that certain "popular" religions for the most part act like imbeciles when presented with the knowledge of what path I follow. What is your opinion on the separation of church and state? It should be totally separate. Religious beliefs have no place in governing a nation made up of many faiths. What do you think of wars carried out in the name of religion? It's a ridiculous concept. The whole "believe or die" ideal is for savages, not civilized people. It's exactly as George Carlin once said, "My god has a bigger dick than your god." Nosense.
What I mean by "differentiate it between everything else" is this: What makes it a higher power? How do you differentiate it in your mind? How is it "god" and not "sam"?
Interesting...never even thought about something like that. What makes them a higher power is my faith that they even exist. Since there's no tangible proof of ANYONE'S deity, your faith is what gives them power and credibility. It's what I've come to believe, and what makes Her not be "Sam" is that I can't buy Her a cup of coffee or talk about last night's game. I do believe she's a Pen's fan though.
Do you believe in the existence of a higher power? If you do, what conditions are necessary to differentiate it between everything else? If you do not, what is it that does not meet your conditions to believe? I do not believe in the traditional sense of an all powerful, all encompassing being. I do however believe that there are powers greater than us in the universe and am open towards that concept. Basically, I'm of the mindset that there are things outside our realm of knowledge that we may never know. How has this belief (or lack thereof) helped you throughout your life (morals, emotions)? I don't know if it has or hasn't. I have a strong belief that we must treat all humans as equals, and has allowed me to rationalize events or occurrences that seemed confusing to a lot of other people. If you present your belief in public how do people respond and treat you afterward? Most people agree and accept my beliefs. My father, who is religious, is not privy to those beliefs as I know they would hurt him. I do celebrate holidays and love my religious tradition, but see them more as social events than spiritual ones. What is your opinion on the separation of church and state? I think it essential and must be observed, however I do not have a problem with Christmas trees or other symbols. In terms of government policies or funding, I am opposed to it. On a side note, while I personally believe women should have a right to choice, I am morally opposed to abortion, but not because of religious beliefs. What do you think of wars carried out in the name of religion? I think people that truly practice religion believe in equality and justice. Wars in the name of religion are the result of scapegoating or a lack of understanding of what the religion stands for.
Do you believe in the existence of a higher power? If you do, what conditions are necessary to differentiate it between everything else? If you do not, what is it that does not meet your conditions to believe? I believe in a higher power in the sense there is something higher than self. Being that self is an illusion so truth itself is "higher". I do not actually believe that it is "higher" than me. There is a difference than me and everything else and everything is exactly the same with no differences at the same time. How has this belief (or lack thereof) helped you throughout your life (morals, emotions)? It is a freeing belief. It is also very calming. The realization that there is nothing and this is all an illusion makes it so emotions are part of the game. Since I also believe in subjective morality, I tend to "judge" people based on the beliefs they state. If you present your belief in public how do people respond and treat you afterward? Some thing I am craazy, some think I am wise. It depends on the situation. I am in Seattle so I have plenty of people to hang around with that think similar to my beliefs. I am sure it would be different if I was in an area that wasn't as alternative. What is your opinion on the separation of church and state? I believe it is necessary because church only cares about church. Church is willing to screw over the state if it is good for the church. What do you think of wars carried out in the name of religion? I think for the most part religion is just used as an excuse when it comes to war. It is very simplistic to say a war is carried out in the name of religion, however it is really good for gathering the masses. It is like saying the civil war was faught over slavery. I honestly believe that if you break down each person indivisually a vast majority of them would rather be home with their families and live an enjoyable life.
Do you believe in the existence of a higher power? If you do, what conditions are necessary to differentiate it between everything else? If you do not, what is it that does not meet your conditions to believe? Not sure if I would label it a "higher power", but I know that something does not come from nothing. And while I do not believe this "something" is the creator of human life, or a traditional "God" as man has created, I do acknowledge that some force, intelligent or otherwise, is responsible for the universe. How has this belief (or lack thereof) helped you throughout your life (morals, emotions)? Personally, lacking faith in a deity has left me better off. I was presented religion at an early age (i.e Sunday School), but quickly saw that others around me who were devout were often very weak-minded. I felt that without religion I was free to live by my own personal set of morals. I feel it's made me more independent, more confident, and more of an open-minded person. If you present your belief in public how do people respond and treat you afterward? Given where I grew up, with a church on every other street corner, being a so-called atheist didn't go over very well. The first time I openly admitted to not believing in God (in the 9th grade), I was ridiculed. Interestingly, this made me research the Bible and other traditional Christian history so that I could arm myself with facts for debates. Had I not been mocked, I probably would've never taken the time to learn any Religious History. In doing so, I reaffirmed my beliefs (or non-beliefs). What is your opinion on the separation of church and state? Without it, we would not have lasted as long as we have as a nation IMO. Because the Church is not always in the best interests of the people, a Church goverened society would not be the United States as we know it today. What do you think of wars carried out in the name of religion? It's one of the reasons -- even If I did beleive in a "higher power" -- I would not associate myself with any organized religion. My main problem with religion, and I'm sure that those with faith even have a problem with it, is that many often justify their own deplorable actions by doing it in the name of God. Not just wars, but bombing of abortion clinics and other terrorist attacks. Like many, I've wondered how much more peaceful this world would be without religion.
1. Do you believe in the existence of a higher power? If you do, what conditions are necessary to differentiate it between everything else? If you do not, what is it that does not meet your conditions to believe? I don't believe in a higher power in the traditional sense. There may be powers that exist that are more powerful than man but I just don't believe that there is a single all-powerful all-knowing being who compares essentially to a kid with an ant farm. 2. How has this belief (or lack thereof) helped you throughout your life (morals, emotions)? I personally find this question to be a bit funny to answer as people often question my morals (or ability to even have them) when they find out I don't believe in god(s). I have my own set of morals that have been developed over time thanks to my parents, interactions with others, written words, and simply experience. I can't say they have helped me throughout my life as they may have hindered my success for all I know, but I know that I am happy with the person that I am on the inside. 3. If you present your belief in public how do people respond and treat you afterward? People are typically surprised when they find out, but they usually don't treat me any different. Occassionally people have tried to convince me that I am "wrong," but I usually just do my best to mess with them until they get so frusrated that they give up. 4. What is your opinion on the separation of church and state? I don't really think it is seperated enough. Sure they say it's seperate, but just for example the President is sworn into the office with his hand on the bible. If it is really seperate, why even do that? Why mention god in the pledge of allegiance still (thank you very much red scare)? Etc. Then people often make arguments/legislation (or vote) based on their religious beliefs rather than the logical benefits/shortcomings that may result in. For example I had a roomate in college for four years who was very religious (FTR I love the guy. He's probably one of the best human beings I have ever met, if not the best. I wish I was as good of a person as him.) Anyway there was a vote about a Smoking Ban in Ohio and he voted against the ban because he didn't want to "decide for other people how they should live there life." But then we also had around that time a proposition for a Gay Marraige Ban. Given his feeling on the previous matter one would think he'd be against the ban, but no. When I asked him about it he said it conflicted with his beliefs, yet I know for a fact he had gay friends (because they were my friends to) and he had no actual problem with their lifestyle as it was a private/personal issue. He simply voted for the ban because of how marraige is viewed as a religious thing to him (rather than the civil act that it is, IMO). 5. What do you think of wars carried out in the name of religion? I think it is silly just because I don't believe in these religions, not to mention I would think in most cases killing another person goes against the will of god(s). I am not surprised by these wars though because I think people will always be at war with each other for one reason or another. I think the only real way to avoid wars is for people to not have any differences, but frankly I find that to be impossible.
Thanks, guys. Interesting replies so far to be honest. I'm glad this thread is turning out what it is intended to be and people aren't reacting negatively to others views. I will post my own beliefs just so I'm answering my own questions.. Do you believe in the existence of a higher power? If you do, what conditions are necessary to differentiate it between everything else? If you do not, what is it that does not meet your conditions to believe? I'm currently unsure. I'm what you would call a salad bowl of beliefs or non beliefs. I have a hard time saying that I don't believe. I was born premature and I believe that something other than medical technology has made it possible for me to be here. With that being said there have been times in my life (such as currently) where I'm unsure of what to believe. It's hard for me to attach a label of non-belief to myself because it is all I have ever known. I feel like I'd be forsaking something that has been a part of my life in some instance since I can remember. I separate the concept of God from others as my idea of what God is basically is defined by what everything else is not. Whether or not I believe in that is the current question rolling through my head. How has this belief (or lack thereof) helped you throughout your life (morals, emotions)? I believe a strong faith in my upbringing - I was raised roman catholic, but didn't attend the church regularly or even irregularly - helped to define how I should treat others. As I grew older, and as I continue to grow older still, these values have been left behind or mixed with other faiths that I have come across to show me A) how I should treat my relationship with whatever it is I believe B) how I should treat myself C) how I should treat others. I do pray at times still when I am emotionally or physically distraught. I don't know that this actually helps me with the outcome, but it helps lessen the emotion at the time. It is really only the time I ever converse with whatever may be out there and that makes me feel like that's the only reason I have a belief.. If you present your belief in public how do people respond and treat you afterward? Since my belief is currently in question I get along with pretty much everyone. People do sometimes tell me that I need to pick a path regardless of what it is because it will give my life definition. I agree with this concept and it's partially the reason for studying religion as much as I do. What is your opinion on the separation of church and state? I think it is necessary as the two are polar opposites IMO. I think the church and state have different goals and one should not interfere with the other. With that said our currency does say "In God We Trust" and that's a fairly bold statement to make considering there are plenty who don't trust in God within our sociological borders. And that's just a start. What do you think of wars carried out in the name of religion? I think that war carried out in the name of religions, or god, are in complete contrast to what religion is trying to achieve (save for one I haven't come across whose goal is to shed blood).
I too celebrate many holidays, but I too merely view them as a social thing rather than taking it with any religious connotations. I am fine with Christmas trees and some other symbols as well, but I don't view the Christmas tree as religious, so.... I would have a problem with a manger scene however (and not just because of the assoiciated religious aspects).
"State leave us alone, but we can use faith to make decisions concerning the state." All due respect bro, but isn't that a serious double standard?
I celebrate all of the holidays. Mostly as a family social thing as well. I find it funny that my family always celebrated the Christian holidays without any being a Christian. Hell it wasn't until I was in highschool till I finally learned that Easter was a religious holiday. I am not against christmas trees, I do not think public money should be spent on them, unless they are called holiday trees.
See, I view a christmas tree as no more religious than fireworks on the 4th of July, so don't mind if money is spent on it as holiday decoration. I guess it depends on how you decorate it though.
It's just a name to me. Christmas is generally the name of the holiday, therefore the tree associated with the holiday is a christmas tree. I mean I don't celebrate easter with some belief that someone rose from the dead but I refer to the bunny character that is associated with that time of year as the easter bunny. I don't call it the holiday bunny.
Perhaps and perhaps it is the way I say it. I do NOT in any way agree with mandated prayer in schools. In that respect the state ought to stay out of the faith business Religious displays on public land don't bother me much but are probably a bad idea in general since there is so much private oppurtunity to make whatever displays one might like. The second part of my answer, the part that might get me in trouble here, is one of existential reality. I am a person of faith as are you Pagan. How can I not use the precepts of my faith to make my civic decisions? Should people of faith be prohibited from public life? Isn't lack of faith in some way also a "faith"? I understand the theories but the realities seem out of line. I believe murder to be wrong. I come to that conclusion first out of a faith context. Because of that should I not be allowed to oppose murder in the civic realm? The fights for abolition, civil rights, and justice for all people were either begun or nurtured in this country by people who came to those conclusions at least in part because of their understandings of their faith. Should that not have been allowed? Hospitals in this country along with most social service agencies arose from faith based groups or secularly because of people of faith banding tiogether within the body politic. Again should that not be allowed? I understand your question Pagan and you are correct, my first answer was a bit off. I would suggest however that the question asked in the survey is so open ended as to be almost meaningless within a research context unless one is only using the quotes to open up other questioning parameters. This answer I hope is clearer and useful to the project.
It's common knowledge the tradition, as well as the time of year the holiday is placed in , were "borrowed" from Pagans, bro.
Now, now lets play nice. Pagan gets at least a half point here because he has some history on his side. Any number of Christian (and for that matter Islamic and Hindu symbols are re-interpretations of old nature based religious practices.) Even Judiasm has roots in non Abrahamic worship of a single diety whether He be called Yahweh, Adonai, Hashem, or any number of other names. (Melchizidek and Jethro come to mind) A good case can be made for Islam's roots arising out of a Non-Orthodox, Judeo-Christian realm, but I digress. What Christianity did was to use practices people knew and give them a new interpretation. The date of Christmas? In reality it was much more likely spring but between the Roman Saturnalia and the northern European proto-Pagan faiths, a new answer had to be given. Early Christian missionaries would say, "You worship the light returning to the world, let me tell you of the true LIGHT coming into the world" and begin to speak of Jesus in terms of the Gospel of John. In Christian history we call it "baptizing" the practice. I call the practices proto-Pagan because I am not convinced historically that the Druid or Celtic practices of late prehistory are in fact the only roots of the modern faith of Wicca or other modern Pagan faiths.
The story is probably apopchraphyl but we Lutherans are proud to claim it. My long post above was being typed while Pagan was making his post. The two crossed in cyber space but I am not sure we are really saying anything much different.
To answer you Ohio...the things you point out are universal beliefs. Murder, civil rights, etc are not things that are strictly faith based. It's a matter of acting like civilized humans. If you (and I don't mean you personally) need religion to tell you not to kill someone, you are truly a sad individual. When you get into topics like gays being allowed to marry, THEN it's faith intruding upon the state...and that is wrong. It's members of one faith forcing their beliefs on another section of the population. Maybe I was not clear in my statement. Faith should not have anything to do with the state in matters of making decisions that effect more than that one faith. Hospitals, social services, etc. are services. You're not denying others anything. Hopefully that was better stated.
I think we are going to disagree on this old friend. How do I seperate my faith based decision from my non-faith based decisions? Are you suggesting that a person of faith should not be allowed to voice or vote if their position is faith based? If I believe abortion is murder or gays should not be allowed to marry and that arises from my faith (my views are more complex but this is for the sake of the discussion) you believe I should be disqualified from stating them or voting my conscience? Using the example of civil rights or abolition. There was reputable "science" in its day that said blacks were not fully human, that they were something less and therefore people could and should enslave them for their own good. Being anti-slavery was anything but universal. It was largely people of faith who began the abolition movement and its extension in the second half of the 20th century, civil rights, out of their faith perspectives. I can not see a "civilized" society telling me I must leave my faith at the door to make decisions. Who then could be let in the door? Only people whose "faith" is "no faith"? My difficulty with your example is that it is theoretical and not existential.
Even if it is "borrowed" from Pagan does not make it any less Christian. Christians borrowed many aspects of their religion from Pagans.
I'll just answer this part and focus on the gay marriage one. This country was founded on freedom for all people bro. On one had you explain faith being used for civil rights. On this hand you are showing how it's used to deny those rights. You can't have it both ways. As for blacks being considered less than human by science "in its day", we can't use old thinking in modern times. Things change, people need to change too. We don't still put scarlet letters on adulteress' chests, do we? At one point your faith KILLED those of my faith based on their beliefs. Should we resort to that again? DO you see what I mean about beliefs coming into play when governing large groups? Sooner or later, one of the groups will be denied what is rightfully theirs because another group has a problem with it. Therefore, religion should be left FAR from government. I'll say it again, universal truths will enter into governing, there's no stopping that. However, beliefs that are limited to one faith should not, as it denies the rights and freedoms of those who don't follow that particular belief system. You're right though, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
1. Do you believe in the existence of a higher power? If you do, what conditions are necessary to differentiate it between everything else? If you do not, what is it that does not meet your conditions to believe? I am an atheist. I think if we're all honest about our faith or lack thereof, the real condition we measure by, is comfort. Whether it be "comfort" in the traditional sense, like a an old pair of jeans, or "comfort" in the more abstract sense, like believing in X brings me "comfort", in that I'm not alone or someone is looking out for me. For me though, I don't take comfort in an incomprehensible being who guides our lives through whim and fancy. Partly because it literally makes no sense to me and partly because if various doctrines were to be believed, the rules are vast, changing and too open to speculation. 2. How has this belief (or lack thereof) helped you throughout your life (morals, emotions)? It has simplified the process. Being free from doctrine, i've boiled my morals down to one: treat people the way you want to be treated. I know, I know, "do unto others...", but that general concept isn't exclusive to one faith and I'm pretty sure it predates most modern religions anyway. (I don't think communities would have formed without this simple notion.) To connect my answers for #1 and #2, by removing faith from my life, I've realized I'm solely responsible for me and how I affect the world around me. In many other faiths, if you're weak or "sin" there's a built in safety valve of forgiveness. I don't have that. I have to answer to me first, then the people I love and/or care for next. For many, that would open the door for selfishness, but it has been quite the opposite for me. I'm way harder on me than anyone else will ever be...I do after all, have to sleep at night. My conscious does not forgive very easily....whether I'm forgiving myself or others. I caused a very minor multi-car accident once, the police tried to let me off and pin it on someone else, I could have walked away free and clear, but instead I argued with the cops, until they charged me solely with the accident. It was my fault, no one else's, and I had to answer to me. I'm incapable of bs-ing myself. The fortunate side effect of all this, is that I rarely approach a situation or problem from strictly an emotional place. Without forgiveness, "measuring twice and cutting once", becomes all that more important. I've also held people in my life to higher standards, and lost most of them. I used to keep trying over and over again with people who were dishonest, self destructive or selfish, and I don't anymore. I try to help as much as is reasonable, and if there's no progress, I cut and run. Without the belief in an afterlife, I feel this life is all we have, better make it count. I've come to realize for any relationship, whether it be love, friends, work, etc., to be considered successful, there must equality. My wife and I give 100% to one another. If we were to each give 30%, we'd still have a mutually benefiting relationship. If she gave 50% and I gave 20% it will fail. Again, it all comes down to treat people the way you want to be treated. 3. If you present your belief in public how do people respond and treat you afterward? Overall mixed, but mostly negative. I've experienced everything from anger to pity to condescending to what I can only liken to having three noses. Out of all them, condescending is the one that chaps my buttocks. However, I've often found the flip side is also true. Many atheists regard people of faith the same way. Many atheists regard religion with anger, which does a disservice to all parties. 4. What is your opinion on the separation of church and state? It is vital and should happen to a higher degree. If no other reason, than to ensure that one's faith isn't favored over another. Because of the next answer...... 5. What do you think of wars carried out in the name of religion? I think it is always inevitable. First of all, I think the small handful of people who begin a war, don't often do it for religious reasons. We are by nature a violent and selfish species. Religion is used to gather the troops, but its often that selfishness or greed that starts the war. Wars are rarely based on facts. They are based on emotions. Faith is the strongest catalyst for emotional response. Whether the emotion is joy, anger or even a sense of entitlement, they all can be attributed to someone's faith in something. Since faith and facts, are by definition, opposites, and the human is a violent animal, wars over beliefs are always going to happen. I would like to see more compassion and logic in the world, but I'm too realistic to hope it will ever happen.
Sure I can. First of all, to say we are a nation where everyone has freedom is questionable from a legal or historical point of view. We have as a nation curbed lots of freedoms from individuals so that we could all live together in harmony. Simple things like age of consent for marriage and or contracts varies from state to state because different places interpret that "freedom" differently. Let's say someone has no particular faith but believes gay sex to be a public health hazard. In your paradigm they would be allowed to vote against gay marriage but because a person of faith believes gay marriage to be wrong on moral grounds, they should not be allowed to vote against it? Where is the logic in that. The inherant logic of your position, at least as I am reading it, is that people of faith would have no political rights. To me that is a ludicrous position.
Wow do I feel a lot of the same way as you. You fleshed it out way more than me, but aside from how you have been viewed by others I could see myself saying those things and not feeling like I was lying about it (or stealing the ideas).
I think, perhaps, what pagan was talking about (correct me if I'm wrong) are the inalienable freedoms we are all afforded from being born citizens. Life, Liberty and the persuit of happiness. not the laws and regulations that are necessary to create that environment for us all.
If you can prove to me where not allowing gay marriage would make us all live in harmony, I will agree with you whole heartedly bro. From what I see, the only way it makes us live in harmony is because it shuts up the über-religious who want that particular freedom taken away. Wrong...DEAD wrong on that. If gay sex was proven to be a health hazard, it still would have no effect on whether or not gays had the right to marry. The right to marry has nothing - repeat NOTHING - to do with the physical act of gay sex. Hell, I know hetero married couples who don't have sex anymore. We're not talking sex. In that light, voting against gay marriage for that reason would be JUST as wrong as the ridiculous notion that marriage is "just for a man and a woman". I never said people shouldn't be allowed to vote based on their religious beliefs. Let's be realistic here, there's no way to prevent that whatsoever. However, for a POLITICIAN to stand before this nation and say that he's voting against something because it's against the Bible? Nuh uh. If you're going to lead a multi-religious nation, you cannot adhere to the tenets of ONE. If that's the case, resign your office and let someone more level-headed assume the position. And it CAN be done. I have a friend on FB who's a VERY religious Christian. He actually calls himself a "Jesus Freak". Recently, he posted in his status that he believes gays should be allowed to marry...so he's obviously basing his decision NOT on his faith, because he still believes it is wrong, but on the basis of the rights afforded to the citizens of this nation. I never said they would have NO political rights. If there is a proven reason to vote against something, then they have every right in the world politically. "The Bible says it's wrong" is not a proven reason. I'm sorry bro, to me THAT'S ludicrous. This country was founded by people seeking religious freedom, so it shouldn't be that one religion is used to oppress others. In the case of gay marriage, that is EXACTLY what is happening. You are correct, sir.
