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Best case (long-term) scenario for the Dolphins' QB situation

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by hugoguzman, Nov 11, 2010.

  1. hugoguzman

    hugoguzman New Member

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    I'm 100% Pennington and hope that he sparks this team to a postseason birth and a deep postseason run.

    But what I'm most interested in is the long-term prospects for this franchise at the QB position. So with that said, here's my "dream" scenario:

    -Pennington leads the team to the postseason and is retained the as the starting QB in 2011
    -Miami drafts a QB in the first round of the 2011 NFL Draft
    -Miami retains Henne for at least another season (and reinserts him into the starting lineup if Pennington falters or is injured in 2011)
    -Henne and the aforementioned first round pick battle for the right to be the team's quarterback of the future

    Now I know that this is a bit unrealistic because if Miami does indeed draft a QB in the first round, it's unlikely that Henne will stick around. Moreover, said draft pick would be an admission that Henne is not in the team's future plans.

    Still, it would be great to have two young QBs (Henne and the draft pick) to groom.

    Curious what other folks consider to be the "best case" scenario?

    P.S. My alternate "best case" scenario would be that if Pennington falters or gets hurt this season, Henne is reinserted into the starting lineup but Miami drafts a QB in the first round just the same and then lets Henne start in 2011 with the first-round pick as the backup.
     
  2. dwhorton

    dwhorton New Member

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    i posted a more detailed reason in the club level. i think the only reason henne got benched is his redzone performance. chad has moved the ball up and down the field against the best d's in the league but when he gets to the r.z. for whatever reson he is awful.i think he is pressing and doesn't want to turn the ball over it affects his accuracy.his decision making is another reason also locking onto one guy and not searching the field for the open man. personally i think chad will be fine.what tony has looked at if we could score tds in the r.z. we would be 6-2.
     
  3. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    They won't spend a first round pick on a QB. We've seen enough of Henne to know he has the ability, and the coaches know that too. He just needs a little more time. I do think we will draft at least one QB in the middle to late rounds because of expiring contracts with Pennington and Thigpen.
     
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  4. hugoguzman

    hugoguzman New Member

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    You could be right, but I think that it hinges on whether or not this regime stays in place. If they do, then you're probably right (although I wouldn't put it past them to draft a QB if they believe that they have enough evidence to give up on Henne). If they're not around, then I think you definitely see a QB drafted in the first round.
     
  5. hugoguzman

    hugoguzman New Member

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    You could be right about the reasons why Henne was benched.

    I guess what I'm curious to know is what you think the "best case" scenario would be going into the 2011 season.
     
  6. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Yeah, but I expect Pennington to come in and play well. This is his kind of offense and he has the experience and smarts. That's why I like this move even though I'm a big Henne fan. Henne's time here will come, but for now I like our chances with Penny. So I expect our staff to stick around a while.
     
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  7. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Yup, I completely agree. This is because we're not scoring points. We are moving the ball with Henne quite well, but just not finishing. Which goes back to my point that he's getting there but just not ready yet.
     
  8. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Best case scenario? They clone Dan Marino, build a power run game, and a dominate D. What?! Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?
     
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  9. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    They trade back and recoup the 2nd rounder.

    The pick is Ryan Mallet around the 18th-26th.
     
  10. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    This team needs an ILB and some running back help before it even thinks a about drafting a QB.
     
  11. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Why does Miami have to draft a QB in the 1st round? If they make the postseason then Luck (if he comes out), Mallet, and Locker will be long gone. Miami will also be in need of a RB, TE and ILB, and S. If value is there at those positions I would much rather go with the value rather than automatically spend 1st round pick on QB.

    QBs having success in the NFL being drafted in the 1st round are around 50% if I recall correctly.
     
  12. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Who?

    God no.
     
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  13. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Chad Henne has no leadership skills plus the fact that he either can not see an open man downfield (lots of that this year) or he just won't throw the damn ball.

    We had the chance to draft an outstanding QB but took the SAFE pick instead. Jake Long is good and I'm glad we have him but he ain't, and never will be, a franchize QB. BTW Henne won't be either!

    Matty Ice and 50 seconds at the end of the game last night gave Atlanta the win over the same team we could only put up 10 points on and none in the second half.

    Seriously, anyone here, do you see that ability in Chad Henne? And if you do please tell me why he has not done it on the field of play, ever?

    For heaven's sake draft a top rated QB next draft, what ever it takes! And don't tell me we can't move up! Teams do it all the time.
     
  14. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Sorry GA....not with you at all on this one....

    Did you forget how awsome Matt Ryan looked in his second season as a starter? In fact...there was talk that Ryan wasnt going to pan out like they thought, and that was the beginning of THIS SEASON.

    Chad Henne has shown more than enough to forgoe taking a QB at all on the first day. We need....(some speed outside...possibly a RB is Ronnie Brown isnt back...A Speed RB even if Ronnie Brown comes back....a threat at TE) way before we need a new QB.

    Should we look later in the draft for a developmental project.....yes, certainly.

    Id rather give Tyler Thigpen a chance to start before drafting a QB on day one.
     
  15. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i have to think we go all offense this draft. Seam busting TE, speed receiver, breakaway RB, Offensive lineman. Dont really see a QB in the cards unless its too replace Thigpen or Pennington. Some we'll pick up in free agency if there is a season but assuming we dont I would bet the order will be

    1) RB
    3) TE
    4) C
    5) WR
    6) at this point it really doesnt matter.
     
  16. mcioci

    mcioci New Member

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    First off I doubt we make the playoffs this year. Pennington hasn't played in well over a year, why do you expect much out of him so soon? We will not draft a qb at all next year, we can win with henne or thigpen if we have a running game. Sparano tinkered with oline and our)'s are a year older and a year slower. If henne had the jets running game he would be putting up better #'s. End of story. This team has many weaknesses, dansby is only good lb we have, I'm not counting wake here, wake is a pass rusher, playmaking safties, oline sucks in run blocking besides long, coaching is horrendous. I would fire every coach with exception to nolan. Other coaches out coach us, just look at adjustments at half and which teams do better in 2nd half of game. It isn't miami. We were down 4 at half against jets lost by 8. We were up 1 against ne lost by a ton, down 3 to balt lost by 16,
     
  17. hugoguzman

    hugoguzman New Member

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    I would like to see Miami draft a quarterback in the first round. If for no other reason than novelty.

    After all, it hasn't happened in nearly 30 years!
     
  18. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    This coaching staff probably won't be around to make the pick. I may be wrong, but IMHO what's going to happen is that Ross will bring in a new football guru who will want his own guys in there. And if he's any good, the first thing he's going to want is a franchise QB, which we do not have right now. Henne has the potential to be a good QB, but getting benched for Penny is pretty much the kiss of death for him in Miami.
     
  19. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    It's just too bad that Henne's accuracy in the "r.z" is around 60% and is on par with the top 10 QB's in the league. His INT's are also at the top 10 average. It's true that his TD's are about 4 shy of the league average, but hey, our rushing TD's in the "r.z" are way down too.
     
  20. finserg

    finserg Well-Known Member

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    If anything he proved he can be a solid backup,i say keep him and give him another chance next year.
     
  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Henne needs more weapons to take the next step.
     
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  22. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

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    If Philadelphia is seriously in talks with Mike Vick on a long-term deal... maybe we could offer a 3rd or 4th round pick for Kevin Kolb. Let Kolb and Henne duke it out in training camp, may the best man win.

    Just an idea.
     
  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Eh, well is Kolb that much of a better prospect than Thigpen?

    :dunno:

    I do think until Henne lands a Te safety net, he will remain where he is, someone has to own the middle of the field for Henne.
     
  24. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

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    Kolb is better than Thigpen... hands down. Why you'd think different is beyond me.
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Because both are just prospects to me, Kolb was not enough to nail down the job in Philly, Thiggy was not enough to nail down the job in KC, so both are on the same level in my eyes.
     
  26. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Good grief...I hope you were joking there Pad.

    One of the best Oline's in the NFL, a Top 5 WR, the best slot WR in the game, two good RBs, a bruising FB, good defense...not much left to give him. :lol:


    EDIT: a Pro Bowl Kicker, and one of the best punters in the NFL. :up:
     
  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    No speed from the running backs, no downfield ability from the Te and the #2 Wr is not lifting his end of the log.

    We need an X factor and a Te, like a McCluster and a Celek or Witten.

    Also not in love with the interior of the Oline.

    but most of all, we need players who can make defense respect deep passes, we do not have that and until we do, Henne will be stuck in underneath mode.exe/default/reboot /s/p/u
     
  28. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    If Chad Henne needs that much firepower to just become an above average QB, I hate to tell you but he ain't worth the trouble. That's just sad. No team but the NY Giants are THAT stacked, but they didn't even have close to that many offensive weapons when they won the Super Bowl. They had a great QB.
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hmm, they had every element I referenced along with a much better passrush from their 4 man Dline.

    Eli Manning was not leading a cast of rejects and castoff into that SB, they had firepower and unknowns who stepped up and made plays.

    And Chad Henne is the definition of "average Qb":

    Td to int's 1 to 1
    winning percentage .550
    4 4th qtr comeback wins in 21 starts

    That is why if we keep him, we have to add to offense, but to my mind, he has shown the raw materials to be better than a decent Gus Frerotte like QB.

    That is what he is right now, only he is more accurate a passer than Frerotte ever was, even with the benching.
     
  30. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Well, the Giants don't have a Pro Bowl TE, but they don't need one. They will probably win the Super Bowl again this year, or at least go to the NFC Championship Game.

    You said Henne was an average QB. With all of the talent we have on offense we should be better than 31st in scoring. Only the clusterfk 1-7 Panthers are scoring less. That's pathetic. And I said Henne wasn't worth all that trouble just to become an ABOVE average QB. He is not an average QB right now, imo.
     
  31. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    And you keep saying that 1:1 TD/INT ratio for Henne. Since when is 8 TDs and 10 INTs = 1 to 1? :lol:
     
  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Kevin Boss when healthy is pretty good CiF.


    Running game is really, really, non productive as well, Henne was on a pace for maybe 20 Td's, more like 16 or 17, but his completion percentage of 63% was solid, and he would have topped 3000k yds.

    With that as the baseline, to me there is a solid foundation there to build the offense on, once again to be fair to Henne of his 8 int's 4 were mostly on the Wr's, granted he wears the crown he takes the hits, but let's not overlook his positives in the switch to Pennington.

    http://www.thephinsider.com/2010/11...eal-problem-with-miamis-offense-in-depth-post
     
  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Because I thought it was 8 Td's to 9 int's and I REFUSE to count the one the NFL left on Henne in the pittsburgh game, that was not an INT and the Ref's did not review the play.

    Let's be real here:

    3rd int in patriots game=Beast broke off the route, Henne threw the ball where it was supposed to go.

    Int #1 in Ravens game=Hartline falls down
    Int #2 in Ravens game=off of Beast's hands
    Int #3 in Ravens game=that was on Henne, though I suspect Bess had quit on the play

    Int in Steelers game=hit the ground, ref's do not review it because it was 4th down anyway.
    Int in Jets game=4th down, he had to try to force the ball into Fasano.

    Lies, Damn Lies, then Statistics.
     
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  34. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This. The interior of the O-line has been shuffled due to injury, performance, salary, etc. since this regime took over. At this point, I'd almost throw a wheel-barrel of cash at Logan Mankins or Carl Nicks and draft Mike Pouncey or Stefan Wisniewski just to get things settled in there.

    I still think a long-term replacement for Brown and Williams is a must at RB, as is play-maker in the mold of Spiller, McCluster, etc. Another TE that could stretch the field would be nice as well. I was pretty impressed with Lance Kendricks' receiving abilities when I was at the OSU vs. Wisconsin game this year.
     
  35. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I'm curious what a top Pennington team would look like as far what he'd like to have on the field. Could it get much better than this?
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, the draft whatever whatever.

    Here is what I'm saying:

    People who watch the Dolphins know there are issues in those areas, you know, I know, so if you are Tony Sparano, what do you do?

    Continue to trot Henne out there to try and make do when, honestly, he cannot, just too many holes, so the next logical move is to start Chad Pennington and to see if he can make it work.

    That is why I'm fully onboard with the move as the idea of spending 8 more games watching Henne throw check down passes to Receivers who aren't going anywhere strikes me as the biggest waste of time I can imagine.

    And to me, sends the wrong message to the team, those guys are not out there busting their balls out on the field so Chad Henne can pad his stats, they want to win.:hi5:

    I also think too much is expected of the defense, it is just to young to be dominant, it can be Top 10, but not a dominant unit.
     
  37. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's fine, but I think it's more of an indictment on the coaching staff that they're so set in their ways/inflexible enough not to adjust the philosophy of the offense. I'd like to think benching Henne (though I strongly disagree with the move) might do him some good. However, it seems we won't know those answers until 2011, barring something unexpected. I just hope Sparano wises up next year with regard to his offensive philosophy, if he makes it that far.

    Clearly last year's draft class was about the D. I'd expect the opposite this coming April.
     
  38. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Here is where the rubber meets the road, I believe they have called plays downfield, I also think the Receiver was NFL Open, meaning they had a step or two, and Henne refused to throw the route.

    That is why you will not hear me complaining about Dan Henning, I "get" why he does most of the things he does with the offense.

    As for Sparano, we shall see, which is another reason why I have no knives out for anyone on the Staff, you do realize this is our best record this late in the season since 2003?

    That said, 4-4 is no great accomplishment, let's wait and see how the Team responds, and I do mean the whole team, Offense with Pennington, Defense with Al Harris being added and Special Teams with Jason Allen being waived.

    If you think about it, the shook up every unit on the team, including the Coaching Staff, the ST responded to Bonamego being fired, let us see if the three units respond to the changes that were made on Tuesday.

    Then draw a conclusion.



    Agree, though I also think Talent has finally reached the level where we can go BPA, I'd like to see weapons added to the offense, but would not cry if they took a Stud Free Safety or Inside Linebacker.
     
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  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    CP typically had a scat back when he was successful in NY, Dave Megget, Leon Washington, but if CP can make an offense with Vern Coles and Moss work, no worries with Hartline and Beast and Bess.
     
  40. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    It’s tough to say what’s really ideal for the QB position right now. There’s no clear-cut way forward. Will Henning stick around in 2011? Will Sparano change his offensive philosophy? Answer those two questions and the quarterback situation becomes clearer.

    I’m afraid that the team will be so “win now” that they’ll sign Michael Vick. Vick is playing great right now, but he’s the last thing this franchise needs. Ignoring the fact that he’s Ben Roethlisberger’s criminal equal, he’s getting old. You don’t build young teams around old core players. Or dog killers.

    Like him or not, we’re going to sink or swim with Henne. He needs to become a franchise quarterback, or we’re doomed another five years minimum.

    Quarterback is more important than both ILB and RB combined.
     

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