1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Biggest Culprit of Monday's Loss- Some Venting with Facts...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Disnardo, Sep 23, 2009.

  1. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,641
    2,121
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Hialeah, FL
    Of course this is my opinion based on actual stats and game observation... and I wanted to vent my frustration on something more than observation...

    Yesterday I made a Post on one of the threads conserning the "root cause," or the "biggest contributor" of our loss Monday Night... I did some look at the stats from the 2008 Colts in the NFL.COM Website and looked into their Offensive stats for last year...

    I wanted to know what Defenses allowed Peyton and their Offense and compared them to ours the other night. What I saw really painted a clearer picture about the loss and put the blame in perspective...

    To start with in 2008 they scored a total of 377 points (23.5 Points per Game) in the Regular Season... Their highest scoring year under Manning was 2004 with 522 points (32.6 Points per Game) in the Regular Season...

    The next road to my search led to TOP on Manning and the Colts in 2008...

    I found out in the same Offense stats site, that the Colts held on to the ball (TOP) an average of over 28 1/2 minutes per game last Season (2008). So looking at the numbers above let's me know that last Season the Colts with Manning scored an average of about 12 points per half a game or 12 points per every 14 minutes of TOP... They had about 34 minutes of TOP against Jax last week and only scored 14 points...now you see where I am going with this...

    Even when Manning had his best scoring production with this Colts Offense in 2004 (51 TDs, 67% Completion) his team still averaged a little over 28 1/2 minutes of TOP...

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=TIME_OF_POSS_SECONDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1&season=2004&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1

    So our Defense let Peyton of the hook and let him do what ever he wanted to do with them. You can't tell me it was not true, when it was evident from the games first Offensive play... sure it is hard to stop an elite QB when he needs to go to work, but this Defense should have slowed him down a bit...

    Though the game was close, how lobside was the victory??? Let's us look at the other numbers that we mostly have not been shown and I am sure Sporano has seen them...

    Sporano's gameplan was executed to a "T", you can say that it was almost perfect, the loss being the only thing that negated the perfection... There was No pick 6 INT, NO Special Teams Mix up, NO Turn Overs... but there was still the LOSS...

    Indi had a total of 35 Offensive plays, and they had over 10+ yards in almost 33% of them, not average but actual 10+ yards in 1 out of every 3 plays ran...They had a total of 70 Offensive plays last week against Jax in which they had over 10+ yds in almost 16% of them, that is 1 out of every 6 plays ran...

    Indi scored and average of 2 Points per minute Monday Night, based on their TOP. Last season (2008) they averaged 0.85 points per minute...Indi only scored 14 points against Jax last week... that is 0.4 points per minute (based on 34 minutes TOP)...

    Peyton averaged 21.6 passing yds in per minute (13.2 yds per attempts) Monday Night, based on their TOP. Last season (2008) they averaged around 9 yds per minute (9 yds per attempt)... Last week against Jax they averaged 8.9 yds per minute (8.9 yds per attempt)...

    The Colts averaged (as others have stated) 10.2 yds per Offensive play Monday Night. Last Season (2008) they averaged 5.5 yds per Offensive play...Last week against Jax they averaged 5.2 yds per Offensive play...

    OK I stopped looking at more stats because I think the point is proven. Our Defense was really a weak point or the only weak point in our team last Monday, and I don't think it excuses tham as to having to give a big play to an elite QB here or there....

    I can understand that, but, looking at a whole season of stats (2008) you get the picture that the performance of our Defense last Monday was worst than any Defense that played against Manning and the Colts last year and probably any Defense that has played against Peyton in his career...

    at least from the stats noted Peyton and the Colts had better performance against our D, than Peyton's best career year in 2004...

    on a side note, if it was not for our Offensive performance, starting with the coaches, the OL, the RBs, TE, and WRs' and yes the QB... we would have been seeing the Colts putting up about 50 points on us... no doubt about it, the stats have shown it....:wink2:

    OK lets eliminate all negative thoughts and focus on next weeks game, since we cannot make any coaching or GM decisions...
     
  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    39,245
    31,298
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    exactly, the Dolphins defense were Detroit bad on monday. One of the worst defensive performances I have seen.
     
  3. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Did you also know that our defense was above average at sacking Manning that game? He was sacked 14 times last year.....less than once a game. And we did it in about half the time other teams have had to make a sack.

    Sometimes stats aren't the whole story...

    Manning and Clark eating us alive wasn't that big of shock to me.......it didn't point out anything new. We knew that our Safeties and LB's are liabilities in coverage. We knew it would be hard to keep them out of the end zone and we deff knew that Manning is just the guy to exploit ANY weakness we might have......I don't care how much time the Colts had the football. Manning putting up 27 points against this defense, is NOT a big surprise..

    Our staff had to approach this game knowing we needed to put some points on the board to have a chance......not just control the clock.

    I think Manning putting up 27 points in 15 minutes is far less amazing than us ending up with 23 points in 45 minutes.

    Not making excuses for the defense, but until we upgrade certain positions, it is what it is...and you take that into account when you game plan.
     
    HULKFish and Disnardo like this.
  4. siciliansith

    siciliansith Resident Deviant

    4,937
    922
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Rochester NY
    DISNARDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Excellent!! :up: THANK YOU i actually learned something this week which is a miracle with all the sky is falling threads. Lets be realistic people, what do we need to do to shore this up? Do the rookies need more time to get the NFL game, or is it something else. Like the Safties, MLB, what? help me im lost and my heart bleeds for these guys! CHEERS ALL
     
    Disnardo likes this.
  5. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

    23,349
    16,179
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Denver, CO
    ...So we got one sack Monday night... where Peyton basically just gave Porter the sack by dropping to the ground.
     
    Vengeful Odin, Fin D and Disnardo like this.
  6. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

    72,648
    35,285
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Charlotte NC
    comon dude.....he gets that sack regardless of peyton dropping to the ground or not......you make it seem it was like when favre dropped for strahan to get the sack record
     
  7. Ricky Williams

    Ricky Williams New Member

    271
    142
    0
    Sep 10, 2008
    We have below avg MLB's and Safeties that can't cover very well. Plus one of our safeties can't tackle. So pretty much from 5 yds past the line of schrimage and the majority of the middle of the field we have a huge coverage problem. I didn't understand the majority of our draft, and as the season goes on I will continue to question it.
     
    cdz12250 likes this.
  8. siciliansith

    siciliansith Resident Deviant

    4,937
    922
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Rochester NY
    While eatin up the clock and keeping Manning off the feild were important remember! That was a huge part of the offense strategy which dictated the play calling!

    While getting 23 pts in 45 minutes isnt aweful or great, what is disgusting is giving up 27 pts in 14.57 minutes JMO
     
    late again and Disnardo like this.
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    39,245
    31,298
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    I have no idea how you can think that.

    Manning putting up 27 points in 15 minutes is a surprised. It is like him scoring 54 points in 30 minutes, which he doesn't do very often.
     
  10. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

    5,505
    2,581
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    NY
    Nice work Disnardo. It proves what i`ve been saying since monday night. The only reason this game wasnt a blow out was because our offense kept the ball for so long. If we didnt have as many first downs as we did,or if we turned the ball over, Peyton and Company would have put up 40 or 50 points no problem. It was a pathetic defensive effort,to say the least. I never saw so many missed tackles in my life. I watched the Giants/Cowboys game and I must say- The Giants defense impressed the hell out of me. They had no missed tackles that I saw and when they got their hands on the ball carrier,he was down on contact. We dont even come close to that type of defensive play. Our effort was putrid! Maybe this week they`ll redeem themselves-after all they didnt play this past monday so the short week and the trip to S.D. shouldnt be a problem.
     
    Disnardo likes this.
  11. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

    5,505
    2,581
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    NY
     
    jetssuck and siciliansith like this.
  12. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,641
    2,121
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Hialeah, FL
    Thanks for your opininion, but you need to realize that putting 27 points on any Defense in 14 minutes will put a strain on your Offensive gameplan, none the wiser, it means it will mean that you have to do the same on Offense...

    We don't have a high power Offense that I am aware of, and I don't think that is what the make up of our Offense is...

    It would have been nice to score a few more TDs if not at least one more with the amount of TOP we had, and I agree with you on that...but...

    If we would have played our regular Offense like last year the score would have looked like Miami 31-Colts 50+... Knowing full well that we don't have the pass catching and route running ability that can help produce points...

    You also have to account that going to a complete passing attack to keep up with them would have played into their hands, by using their pass rushing talent on any one of our QBs... Turn Overs would have been a common site in the Dolphins backfield, if that would have happened...

    Like I stated, the game plan Offensively was executed to a T...
     
    siciliansith likes this.
  13. siciliansith

    siciliansith Resident Deviant

    4,937
    922
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Rochester NY
    THats why it hurts and the Defense is held accountable, in the end we turn it around i just hope its not to late :up:
     
    Disnardo likes this.
  14. Zeke0123

    Zeke0123 message board ******* Club Member

    5,596
    3,609
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Strange part is nobody was running through a breakdown...we had guys chasing on everyplay but counting the sack and 9 incompletions another slide by Manning.... the D had 24 plays in which they needed to make a tackle...7 missed tackles..30% or so missed tackles would have made a highschool coach worry about losing his job...horrendous.
     
  15. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,641
    2,121
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Hialeah, FL
    Great detail points also Zeke... Thanks for the input...

    We all know that Safety and LB's (specifically the inside) are currently our weakest link on this Defense, and probably on the whole team...

    The Special Teams showed up nicely on KO and Punt coverages...

    Can our rookie Clemmons contribute if he is allowed and step in for Wilson???

    Jim "Mad Dog" made a curious statement in todays show from WQAM...

    He said that it would be interesting to see if Vontae Davis could make a transition to Safety and replace Wilson since he has the physical ability for the position... he stated that it would be interesting if Sporano would give the rookie the chance...
     
  16. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    I'm sorry but scoring 23 points vs Manning, with the guys we have in coverage will result in a loss, far more times than not....15 minutes or not.

    I fully understand that our defensive play was not acceptable and needs to be addressed. But at the same time, you can't just win by keeping Manning off the field in this game.....you have to drive for TD's, not FG's. Because when he does get on the field....against the guys we have in coverage, he's gonna score TD's.

    A conservative offensive approach at times, was just as much to blame as anything...well except for maybe Ted Ginn :lol:

    It was Sparano who was willing to settle for 3 points and rely on our defense to keep them out of the end zone. That looked very questionable at the time and in hindsight, looks no better.

    We have the same thing waiting for us next Sunday.....and we better put some points on the board because you can bet the Chargers will.
     
  17. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,641
    2,121
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Hialeah, FL
    So you are saying that we have the worst Defense in the league???:sad:

    Because we will be facing a few more similar style Offenses and if we do have the worst Defense in the league, we will definitely not have a very good year...

    Can we score more points??? Sure we scored 38 points in a game last year, but that is not our Offensive philosophy, as you know, because we do not have the talent currently on this team to attack the ball on Defense and/or move the ball efficiently through the air on Offense...:angry:

    I again agree with you that we need to score more than 23 points per game...

    but the chances were there last Monday, and as long as we take those chances every game... we have a shot...:up:
     
  18. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    No but with the current personnel, we do have some serious match up problems with certain teams.

    but we didn't, we drove for FG's

    Are you saying we scored a sufficient number of points in the amount of time we maintained possession?

    Regardless of offensive philosophy, we had the ball for 45 minutes.....which should be enough time to rack up 4 TD's on dive plays alone...
     
  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,683
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Based on what exactly?

    Your entire philosophy is based exclusively on your dislike of Pennington.

    Many teams have scored less than 23 points in more than 3 quarters. Very few, have scored 27 in less than one quarter. The defense lost this game regardless of Penny, Ginn, Henning, 2 minute offense, etc. etc.
     
  20. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB


    Great post and great research! :up:
     
  21. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Well then I apologize for being so close minded:rolleyes:
     
  22. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

    1,457
    718
    0
    Mar 22, 2008
    Missouri
    we are 23rd in pass d and I'm not sure that takes in account time of pos.which makes it even worse. Wilsons pop warner coach called him to remind him how to tackle. It doesn't get any easier Sunday.
     
  23. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,641
    2,121
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Hialeah, FL
    I saw Ginn have two chances (2nd quarterand Last 2 minute Offense) at catching a pass in the EZ... Also saw Fasano get a chance a catching one in the EZ...

    That is 3 tries in at the EZ in my opinion...

    What I am saying is that we had the right Offensive gamplan and executed it to a T...

    If Peyton had done what he has normally done against other Defenses through out the years...

    45 minutes of TOP and 23 points on Offense should have been enough to pull out a victory... stats have shown that the Colts averaged around 12 points in 14 minutes of their 16 games last year...

    Again we did take chances at scoring more TDs, as stated above, they did take their shots at the EZ before the 4th quarter...

    Again we scored 2 TDs, and took a good shot at 3 more during the game...
     
  24. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    can't agree with that.....they looked like conservative FG drives to me.

    I think you underestimate just how poorly our defense matches up with Manning and company.....I think when you factor in who he is against who we have, those 27 points seem less remarkable.

    Again, not saying the defense shouldn't get blame for their performance, it was scary bad....

    But there were other factors as well as to why we could maintain that much of a time advantage and still lose.....I'm sure the staff isn't excited about the fact that we held on to the ball for 3/4 of the game, ran for 240 yds and yet could only put the ball in the end zone twice...
     
  25. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

    23,349
    16,179
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Denver, CO
    I just don't understand how one sack represents a games worth of pressure... or lack thereof.
     
  26. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    it doesn't, nor was that the point I was trying to make.....I followed what you quoted with "Stats don't always tell the whole story"
     
  27. Dolfan984

    Dolfan984 Underrated Free Agent

    4,052
    969
    113
    Apr 26, 2009
    Bay Area, CA
    The point is Manning really didn't have that many possessions. When he did he scored in 2-3 minutes or less. If Ginn catches both of those TD passes the Dolphins score 34 points and everyone's raving about the offense.
     
    Disnardo likes this.
  28. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,641
    2,121
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Hialeah, FL
    Thanks for reminding me, and its other stats that I left off the original post...

    The Colts had 9 Possessions in 14 minutes... they averaged 10 possesions per game last year...

    They had 25 plays (74% of total) which were part of their scoring drives...

    We did not need our D to be special, we just needed them to be average at best...
     
  29. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

    72,648
    35,285
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Charlotte NC
    it doesnt lol....i was just defending j-peezy. he makes that sack regardless of peyton laying down or not
     
  30. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

    3,123
    2,247
    113
    Mar 24, 2008
    I think the problem with our pressure, specifically against Peyton, was that if it was there at all it was generated on the perimeter.
    Guys like Peyton need to have pressure in their face, up the middle to get rattled. That was the only thing that seems to get to the great ones.
     
  31. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

    2,354
    1,402
    113
    Jan 4, 2008
    You hold a team to 14 minutes of possession
    YOU WINN...AT LEAST TEAMS IN THE LAST 32 YEARS HAVE WON

    BUT NOT US
     
  32. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

    3,415
    1,557
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    The defense sucked but...................

    I could make a very legitimate argument that the ROOT cause of this loss was the strange desire to do something other than WILDCAT. Why this team chose to do anything else is still at a loss to any argument based on logic. The Colts could not stop it. So the Dolphins did it for them.
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  33. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    1) missed tackles
    2) dropping passes
    3) sacks
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,683
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Then how do you explain, your refusal to put 99% of the blame for this loss on one the worst defensive performances of all time? All time! How do you justify that, if not because of your dislike of Penny, clouding your judgment?
     
  35. DolfanCole

    DolfanCole Season Ticket Holder

    1,819
    377
    0
    Jan 4, 2008
    Hampton, VA
    I think you hit on the most important problems, which first and foremost is the missed tackles. I think I counted 4 just on the one touchdown play (the first touchdown of the 2nd half where Brown ran it in). Had we tackled at least as good as a high school team, we'd at least have slowed down those drives, and probably could've even eliminated one of their 3 possessions in the 2nd half.

    I also agree with us having to chase down plays. On that last touchdown, everyone seemed to be out of position and Wilson made a terrible angle and should've cut Garcon off. We let way too many plays get behind us instead of keeping everything in front of us and making the tackle! Or better yet, get some pressure, sacks, defend some passes so the completion is not made!
     
    Fin D likes this.
  36. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

    1,834
    513
    113
    Jan 3, 2008
    North Carolina
    i'm usually pretty hard on Pennington, but this loss can not be put on him. the WRs have to come down with those catches in the EZ ...

    the defense is another story ... but with little pressure and no one to cover the middle, that is not a recipe for success over the rest of the season.

    i was not too concerned that we lost to ATL ... but this last game should not have been a loss. what is most concerning is that NE, NYJ, and BUF will all be postured to do the same thing against us ... and that is bothersome - with nothing in the cupboard to fix the problem.
     
  37. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

    39,245
    10,681
    0
    Dec 2, 2007
    Miami FL
    Its Ginns fault that he didnt tackle. Hell has he even tackled anyone ever?
     
  38. Sam

    Sam Member

    190
    47
    0
    Nov 30, 2007
    I actually blame the loss on the conservative nature of our offense and defense...essentially, what Sparano is comfortable with.

    Being conservative gives us so little margin for errors, that we need the other team to make errors in order to win comfortably. Looking at last year and so far this year, it's obvious that we're probably going to see a lot more of this type of ending where we have to make plays or else we lose.

    I really wish we'd open up the offense and be more aggressive defensively...may be next year.
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    39,245
    31,298
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Miami had a lot of blitzes on defense. I do not think they were not aggressive on defense.
     
  40. UM_all_day

    UM_all_day New Member

    160
    67
    0
    Aug 28, 2008
    where is the pressure? we have all these pass rushers but we look so predictable with our Defense.......if our secondary is a weakness then our Front 7 can't be playing like this....why don't we ever look at the steelers, ravens, jets and pick up some of the stuff they do with creating pressure.....its like manning always knew where we are going to bring the pressure......not saying he isn't a great QB and obviously the best at picking up that stuff but I've seen the chargers confuse manning to the point he threw like 6 picks one night....
     

Share This Page