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Bills GM Nix:"Qb's were setup to fail in 09"

Discussion in 'AFC East Rivals' started by padre31, Apr 29, 2010.

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  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Rotoworld makes a good point, they did not add a LT and their passing offense is arguably worse without TO and Josh Reed.

    "But" consider this one, by adding CJ Spiller to Fred Jackson and Marshawn Lynch, the Bills have assembled a great stable of running backs, especially if Lynch returns to form, and they have a great secondary.

    I suspect they will miss ST Guru Bobby April, but the Bills are not the weak sister they would appear to be on paper, they may have a weak pass blocking left tackle, but with their Rb's they can pound the ball with anyone in the AFCE.
     
  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    good o-line :rolleyes:
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The thing is, run blocking is absolutely the easiest thing for even a scrubini Olineman to do, they won't need all pro's on the Oline when they are 320 pds plus and just have to drive block the defender in front of them.

    Fred Jackson gained 1,000 yds last yr AND led the entire NFL in All Purpose yardage, adding Spiller to that mix can only make their offense even more effective for what it is designed to do..run..the..ball..
     
  4. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    I was just amazed that they STILL refuse to upgrade their o-line so at least they don't have to replace whatever crash test dummy they trot out there behind center every other week. Todays' NFL being a win-through-the-air league. I expect the Bills to be feeding at the bottom of the AFCE for a while.
     
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  5. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately for the Bills, running the ball is not a formula for sustained success. Time of possession doesn't guarantee you much, either, besides a slightly more rested defense.

    Like every other team, they need good play from the quarterback.
     
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    You do realize we only finished 1 game ahead of them and split the series with them in 09?
     
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  7. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Don't rub it in bro :cry:
     
  8. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    You are aware that we are still light years ahead of them right? When Buffalo can score more than a FG against the Browns then I may be somewhat close to being slightly worried.
     
  9. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    I look for CJ Spiller to get 1/3 of his touches off screens, which BTW, is Chan Gaily's offense. CJ is going to be a stud with coach G.

    Right now, who do we have that can stop CJ in the open field??
     
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  10. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Yeah I'm real terrified of Reggie Bush Lite.
     
  11. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    I don't even know where to begin on this one Pads. If all it took for an Oline to be a good run blocking Line was to get a stable of 320 ponders then every team in the NFL would have a good running game. I respect ya bro but you missed the target on this one. :no:
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Aw man, well think about it LS..Fred Jackson had 1,000 yds rushing behind the train wreck that was the Bills Oline, he had 2,500+ yds overall, a Oline full of #1 and #2 draft picks and high priced free agents is not always the way things MUST be done..
     
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  13. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    I certainly would agree that high priced FA's are not the way to go. The bills roster is atrocious. That's not to say they don't have some skilled players. I like their secondary and as mentioned their RB's seem to be pretty good. Other than that maybe a decent player here or there with little to no depth.

    They aren't really in a position where I would go out and grab High priced FA's. What I would do is what our FO has done with us the last couple of years and that is constantly churn the bottom of the roster.

    Remember their first year? Each week they cut one or two players and singed replacements. We added a lot of depth that first year. Last year they did the same thing with their search for acorns. Not nearly as much movement but at that point it was also harder to find upgrades on the waver wire.

    Nix has done nothing of note that I have read about. I would wager that right now there are at least a dozen mid to low prices FAs that are better than what they have on their roster. He should be singing these players for depth and competition.

    If the Bills plan is to only build through the draft and not address any of there needs in the draft. Then they are in for an uphill battle that they simply can't win.
     
  14. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    1) Respect is earned my friend

    2) Its never that simple is it?

    3) Had we been at full strength as we were when we beat you earlier in the season we would have won.

    4)I call it like I see it, and what can Spiller do with no QB and no OL?
     
  15. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    In today's football when most people talk of free agents people always think of the Brandon Marshall's or any other high priced Free Agent. What most people and some front offices overlook is the bottom of the roster.

    As I stated in my post that you quoted but didn't thoroughly the Bills aren't in a position where they should be signing high priced free agents. As much as you hate to admit it you are quite far behind the rest of the AFC East and are not in a position to contend. I would wager good money that there are players that are still on the market that could be had for cheap that are better than your 2nd or third stringers.

    Your FO needs to be aggressive and continue to turn the bottom of your roster. I know ours still continues to not only sign starters but continues to look look for FA's, Practice squad players, Cut etc players who can upgrade our depth as well. I have yet to see the bills do this and until they do your not even rebuilding. Your staying pat and quite frankly its not going to end well for you guys.

    PS. just to be clear You guy's shouldn't be looking for 'impact' free agents. You should be looking for bargain FA's than can improve your depth.
     
  16. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Where did you gather the information that you lead the league in players placed on the IR? I'm not saying its true or it isn't I just can't find the exact stat or the players lost.

    Also in response last year and the year before we were 4-2 inside the division. where the Bills were 2-4 last year and 0-6 in 2008. You have to win the games inside your division in order to compete.

    Also when you look at the SOS (Strength of Schedule) for last years game your schedule was considerably more difficult than ours. As already stated by multiple sources in the NFL last year we had the most difficult schedule in the NFL last year.

    NFL

    [TABLE="head; width=40%"]RNK|Team|Win|Loss|Tie|PCT|SOS
    1|Mia|7|9|0|0.438|0.559
    2|TB|3|13|0|0.188|0.555
    3|CAR|8|8|0|0.500|0.539
    4|Ten|8|8|0|0.500|0.539
    5|NYG|8|8|0|0.500|0.535
    6|Den|8|8|0|0.500|0.527
    7|Oak|5|11|0|0.313|0.527
    8|Bal|9|7|0|0.563|0.523
    9|DET|2|14|0|0.125|0.523
    10|Rams|1|15|0|0.063|0.520
    11|KC|4|12|0|0.250|0.516
    12|NE|10|6|0|0.625|0.516
    13|NYJ|9|7|0|0.563|0.516
    14|Cle|5|11|0|0.313|0.512
    15|ATL|9|7|0|0.563|0.504
    16|Buf|6|10|0|0.375|0.504
    17|Hou|9|7|0|0.563|0.504
    18|CHI|7|9|0|0.438|0.496
    19|Jac|7|9|0|0.438|0.496
    20|Cin|10|6|0|0.625|0.492
    21|WAS|4|12|0|0.250|0.492
    22|DAL|11|5|0|0.688|0.488
    23|Pit|9|7|0|0.563|0.488
    24|PHI|11|5|0|0.688|0.484
    25|Sea|5|11|0|0.313|0.477
    26|SF|8|8|0|0.500|0.477
    27|Ind|14|2|0|0.875|0.473
    28|SD|13|3|0|0.813|0.453
    29|Ari|10|6|0|0.625|0.445
    30|GB|11|5|0|0.688|0.441
    31|Min|12|4|0|0.750|0.441
    32|NO|13|3|0|0.813|0.426[/TABLE]


    AFC EAST
    [TABLE="head; width=70%"]Team|Win|Loss|Tie|PCT|SOS
    Buf|6|10|0|0.38|0.504
    Mia|7|9|0|0.44|0.559
    NE|10|6|0|0.63|0.516
    NYJ|9|7|0|0.56|0.516
    [/TABLE]
     
  17. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Ok first bold: are you that secure with your roster to think that there aren't available FA that are better than your second stringers? I mean really?

    On to the second part you couldn't be more wrong. I think we only have like 7 (correction 8) guys still on the roster from that 1-15 season. Most of the turn over happend in the first year. Our FO brought in guys week after week that we didn't even know. That didn't stop either. We went a full training camp adding and removing people from our roster then the season started.

    It still didn't stop! Most weeks we would cut at least one person and sign their replacement. It was INSANE!. Some weeks we would cut two people and those players would play the next week.

    If your going to rebuild you don't rebuild from the top down. You rebuild from the bottom up. That's not to say you don't bring in quality players who can start for you it simply means it doesn't stop their. You always need to churn the bottom of your roster.

    Their are upgrades out there bro trust me.
     
  18. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Also understand I hate the Bills, I hate the Jets NE etc. However nothing I said in my first post or any of my followups are based on emotion. I have an account over at Two bills drive and post there from time to time but scan their board daily. I like to know what the rest of the division is doing and I never cause trouble.
     
  19. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Here is our 2007 Roster. Strike outs are players no longer with us.

    PS Thanx to Gish for this.

    [​IMG]

    So as you see we didn't win with our 2007 roster we pretty much ripped it to shreds and built anew.
     
  20. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Were you not worried the last time we played them?

    They kinda outscored us 24-0 in the 4th quarter.
     
  21. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Your argument doesn't amount to a hill of beans when you factor in Chad Pennington vs. John Beck / Cleo Lemon / Trent Green. Chad Pennington and coaching is why we were able to have such a great turnaround. Quarterback. It's the most important position in football. And it's why the Bills won't be successful in 2010.
     
  22. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    I don't think you realize just how good Penny was in 2008. He took over a team that had just went 1-15. Replaced over half its roster with new players, most of them unknowns. Was coming off shoulder surgery and came to camp very late. and still put up these numbers.

    [TABLE="head; width=90%"]RNK|Player|Team|Pos|Comp|Att|Pct|Att/G|Yds|Avg|Yds/G|TD|Int|Lng|Sck|Rate
    9th|Chad Pennington|MIA |QB |321|476|67.4|29.8|3,653|7.7|228.3|19|7|80T |24|97.4[/TABLE]

    67% completion only 7 Ints. He was great in 2008 and if you ask me he should have gotten MVP honors that year to go along with his comeback player of the year award because if he's not on our team in 2008 I doubt we win 8 games.

    You state the we are overrating Penny but if your referring to his one bad game of the year I could just as easily argue the fact that you're underrating the Ravens defense. They were ranked #2 in the NFL in 2008 and made it to the AFC championship game. That team was solid.
     
  23. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    The only record that matters in this discussion is divisional and head to head. That one win doesn't take away all the work the Bills need to do to even consider being higher than last in the AFC East. In the past two seasons Miami is 8-4 in the division and has won it once. In the past two season Buffalo as I'm sure you know went 2-10 in the division. Head to head Miami is 3-1 vs. Buffalo. The 7-9 record is irrelevant. There were a lot of factors involved in that. The Bills are moving in the right direction I'm sure but let's not pretend that they're not probably two seasons away from being able to threaten NE, NY, and Miami in the division.

    Also Miami dealt with as many injuries as Buffalo. Let's be honest here, the Bills offensive line would have sucked if the opening day starters stay healthy all season. They didn't lose a guy like Ronnie Brown. A guy that can change a game and makes opposing defensive coordinators game plan for him.
     
  24. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Bro I'm not so sure they are moving in any direction much less forward. Other than changing coaches what have they done?
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Maybe, your Bills are shaky in some of the 5 Must Haves:

    Qb
    LT
    Passrusher
    Shut down Cb
    Dominant Wr

    And losing Bobby April will hurt as well, when a team tries to play small ball football the ST unit has to be good or err.."excitement" will ensue..that was the story in 2008 for us.

    And Ireland was a master at churning the lower third of the roster in season and finding talent, he added Lou Polite inseason for example, Nix is an unknown in that regard.
     
  26. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Penny only threw two passes out of the WC.

    And yet he still averaged close to 8 yards an attempt....
     
  27. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    3-1 over the past two seasons. They are a long way off from challenging for the division. What is really the trend here, the three wins or that one loss? Come on, let's be logical. Buffalo wins one game that Chad Henne basically handed them and suddenly they're not miles behind the rest of the division? Their only divisional wins in two entire seasons were two games handed to them by inexperienced quarterbacks. And I meant threatening in the sense of them having a prayer of winning the division. I'm sure they'll occasionally collect a divisional win here and there.
     
  28. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    That's not a direction though. Your biggest need was O line and yet you didn't really address it. No FA's brought in to speak of. Hell your not even rebuilding which is my point. Other than changing coaches and having a draft, which by the way all other 32 teams participated in you guys haven't done a thing.

    As I already pointed out if your rebuilding then rebuild. Bring in young talented FA's that haven't come into their own yet but show potential. Can't find a FA good enough to crack your starting line up? No problem find a few that are better than your #2's! Be aggressive bring in an influx of talent and let them compete.

    Bring someone in only to find out he's not good enough? No problem cut him the next week and bring in someone else! We replaced over 50% (28 players) our first year. Not a week went by where we weren't replacing someone.

    Choose what type of team you want to be and only bring in people that fit that system. That's having a direction. Simply changing a coach and having a draft isn't. Drafting the fastest back in the draft when you need help on the Oline or an upgrade at QB? That's not really having a direction. That's picking the item off the shelf that has the most sparkle.

    Running back is the easiest position to replace in today's NFL and their life expectancy is among (if not) the shortest. So in year one of rebuilding your first pick is of a player that may or may not be on his down turn when your team is finally ready to compete.

    I appreciate your loyalty to your team, but you seem to be approaching this season with your eyes closed.
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    McGee was ranked at #161 per pro football focus, the Safeties are good, the Cb's..not so much


    For a start the AFC West has been a basket case division for most of the 2000's, secondly they had several Top 15 picks who they hit on, thirdly, the Bolts didn't find players on the Scrap Heap, they drafted them.

    Not being able to pick up quality UDFA's and Street Free Agents during the season is a serious drawback for a team with several needs.



    Qb=Henne
    Cb=Vontae Davis or Will Allen
    Passrusher=Cameron Wake

    True, the other problem is, Lee Evans looks like Eric Moulds did circa 2007..and who is playing Qb again?

    Will Aaaron Schoebel play this year, or will he retire?

    Eh, preseason banter dude, Veteran MiniCamp has not opened up yet, let alone OTA's, all this stuff is just being on the outside and looking in.
     
  30. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Lets please at least research a stat before we make whimsical statements and call them as fact. Last year the Dolphins were #3 in sacks with 44 total. 4 Sacks behind league leading Minnesota. That's not record breaking but its still pretty damned good.

    Also be honest. If you could switch out your starting QB, which by the way isn't even determined yet for Henne you would do it in a heart beat. If not you're either kidding yourself or are in total and utter denial.
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That is something of a myth bro, Henne outplayed Sanchez, yet Sanchez is the "guy' and Henne has questions? He got better as the season rolled along save for his 3 picks in the last 5 minutes against the Bills.


    "From the CFL.." And? What would it matter if he came from the UFL, AFL, or the Italian Association of American Football League?

    Our passrush was fine in 09, we lost 15 sacks, but added pieces to take up the slack, and subtracting two players who were limited in what they can do is known as "upgrading the position".


    Glad one is humored, check out where your boys ranked:

    http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_...&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numgames=1

    You'll have to scroll waaay down towards the bottom to find Florence and McGee...Will Allen and Vontae D are easy to find..

    As for the Safeties, I'd take YBell over Whitner, and Byrd has to prove he can do it two years in a row.

    Oh, so Aaron Maybin really shined last yr? And now he has a position move in his future.

    When a team is trying to restock the roster UDFA's and Waived players have to be identified and signed to fill roles, the Chargers haven't been forced to do that in 4 yrs...the Bills simply haven't done that since..sheesh...they signed Steve Tasker away from the Oilers..

    Which subtracts sacks from what you could expect this year...

    Nice talking with you, now I'll sit back and read for a bit Wagon Circler.
     
  32. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    There's really nothing more I can say if you think the Bills actually have any kind of shot at the East this season. I guess anything is possible but the odds are low. Miami has a better Oline [something they actually addressed this offseason], they still have Ricky and Ronnie, probalby the third best WR in the game, and a defensive front seven that should be much improved from last year. They were 4-2 in the division last season. The Bills were 2-4. Last season is not ancient history. If you can't see why the Dolphins have a better shot it's because you don't want to. The Bills are lacking at Oline and QB. Two super important areas. The Bills had multiple opportunities to draft a franchise QB and ignored it. The rest of the division are way ahead of them in that department.
     
  33. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Oh ya, and this is what Cameron Wake thinks of Trent Edwards :sidelol:

    [​IMG]
     
  34. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    You couldn't be more wrong. Pennington was clutch in 2008. When the Dolphins needed a scoring drive for a win or needed a long drive to run out the clock, Pennington made it happen. That's what made the difference in 2008 as compared to 2007. Having a QB you could count on when the game was on the line.
     
  35. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    i won't argue any of that and how could i really. fitzpatrick thew a 50 yard TD in in the game up in Buff last season. ran for a 43 yard TD, henning dialed up a RW pass after spanking your D down the field. we got our butts handed to us...

    new season indeed :wink2:
     
  36. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    you need to talk to that padre feller he thinks pat white is the answer
    he hates henne too
    you guys might get along :up:
     
  37. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Cause he has no shoulder. Its not because he played poorly in 2008.
     
  38. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Disagree all you want. Pennington's career as a starter is probably over due to injuries, not because he couldn't play the game. Sure the running game was part of our success in 2008. But down the stretch Ronnie's production dipped way down and the effectiveness of the Wild Cat declined. It was Pennington's arm that guided us to the playoffs in the last quarter of the season. If you want to disagree with this with one sentence responses with nothing to back it up, that's fine but the only thing you are proving is that you did not watch many Dolphin games in 2008.
     
  39. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Which if used correctly can net you Ws. But when youve got a wrecked shoulder, it becomes much harder. Sorry dude, Penny was playing at a high level that year, no matter how much you would rather play at being on ostrich. :up:
     
  40. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    You're right. Arguing is pointless. We'll hang out with our QBs over here in Dolphin land, and as for you and your Buffalo Bill QBs...well....good luck with all that.
     
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  41. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    :sidelol:
     
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  42. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Well, I know you don't think our QB situation is as good as we think it is...but if we can agree it's at least a respectable stable of QBs, then you can take solace in the fact that we went from John Beck / Cleo Lemon / Josh McCown to Chad Henne / Chad Pennington / and Tyler Thigpen (and Pat White fits in there somewhere...) in under 2 years. So it can be done.

    Just between you and me I think it's a crying shame what happened with Edwards. I thought he had real potential. I'm not sure what Bills fans make of the whole situation, but from the limited I saw of Edwards it seems like poor coaching, and letting the line go to **** ruined what might have been (maybe still can be) a good career.
     
  43. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    IMHO I think Edwards biggest issue other than coaching is his line. its horrible. Until they rebuild that line no one will really know if he's any good.
     
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  44. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hmm, I see the Bills going the other way WC, they will be a run heavy offense as that is your strength on offense and it takes pressure away from the Oline to pass block, not a strength, and it takes pressure of the Qb to do to much.
     
  45. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Which is sort of Trent Edward's game to a "T".

    The problem is without explosive options on the perimeter, it won't work real well, as the box will be packed with defenders and such an approach requires a Qb to be both accurate and highly patient and able to make quick reads of the defense.

    That was what Pennington brought to the table in 08, I'm not sure who will do that for the Bills in 2010.
     
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  46. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    :D

    Dude, why do you think we were crappy for a 4 yrs?

    Our Wr were pedestrian, Pennington was that good in 08 and that sort of righted the ship, instead of Chambers and Booker we had the relative unknown, but sure handed Greg Camarillo and Davone Bess, sure handed Wr met Accurate Qb met Ricky and Ronnie along with bookend tackles and a hugely expensive Guard.


    But it doesn't work like that WC, that Qb also has to make clutch throws and Wr's have to make clutch catches on 3rd and longs it is not as easy as telling Fitzpatrick to throw underneath routes.
     
  47. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    i could never understand why lee evans isn't a big time star in the nfl.
    what happened with james hardy 2nd pick in '08?

    as far as gailey he is a run first guy. I like your RB's though. adding spiller is a luxury when he is healthy. i hate having to try to stop that guy. he can be a gamebreaker and jackson is a very good RB.
     
  48. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not post 2008, once Chambers, Booker and McMichael were gone, they added surer hands like Greg Camarillo and Davone Bess.



    Maybe, but that sort of boring, move the sticks approach is how a offense rebuilds itself.


    Eh, 99 problems baby..:wink2:
     
  49. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, the funny thing about Ginn is he was sure handed in 07 and 08, 09's 11 drops were more than he had in the previous two seasons combined.

    And...out he went, off to San Francisco, Sparano and Co won't put up with that in a Wr or kick returner, like McKelvin fumbling that kick off to cost the Bills the upset win against the Patriots...he'd never handle another kick return in Miami.

    Which brings up another sunny point, the Bobby April Special Teams unit consistently ranked #1 in the NFL, now with April in Philly, the one real strength on the Bills has also been cast into doubt.

    I am curious what will happen with Roscoe Parrish though, with Spiller on the roster.
     

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