Bills GM Nix:"Qb's were setup to fail in 09"

good o-line :rolleyes:

"lmeister3 wrote:

good o-line :rolleyes:

The thing is, run blocking is absolutely the easiest thing for even a scrubini Olineman to do, they won't need all pro's on the Oline when they are 320 pds plus and just have to drive block the defender in front of them.

Fred Jackson gained 1,000 yds last yr AND led the entire NFL in All Purpose yardage, adding Spiller to that mix can only make their offense even more effective for what it is designed to do..run..the..ball..

I was just amazed that they STILL refuse to upgrade their o-line so at least they don't have to replace whatever crash test dummy they trot out there behind center every other week. Todays' NFL being a win-through-the-air league. I expect the Bills to be feeding at the bottom of the AFCE for a while.

"padre31 wrote:

Fred Jackson gained 1,000 yds last yr AND led the entire NFL in All Purpose yardage, adding Spiller to that mix can only make their offense even more effective for what it is designed to do..run..the..ball..

Unfortunately for the Bills, running the ball is not a formula for sustained success. Time of possession doesn't guarantee you much, either, besides a slightly more rested defense.

Like every other team, they need good play from the quarterback.

"lmeister3 wrote:

I was just amazed that they STILL refuse to upgrade their o-line so at least they don't have to replace whatever crash test dummy they trot out there behind center every other week. Todays' NFL being a win-through-the-air league. I expect the Bills to be feeding at the bottom of the AFCE for a while.

You do realize we only finished 1 game ahead of them and split the series with them in 09?

"padre31 wrote:

You do realize we only finished 1 game ahead of them and split the series with them in 09?

Don't rub it in bro :cry:

"padre31 wrote:

You do realize we only finished 1 game ahead of them and split the series with them in 09?

You are aware that we are still light years ahead of them right? When Buffalo can score more than a FG against the Browns then I may be somewhat close to being slightly worried.

I look for CJ Spiller to get 1/3 of his touches off screens, which BTW, is Chan Gaily's offense. CJ is going to be a stud with coach G.

Right now, who do we have that can stop CJ in the open field??

Yeah I'm real terrified of Reggie Bush Lite.

"padre31 wrote:

The thing is, run blocking is absolutely the easiest thing for even a scrubini Olineman to do, they won't need all pro's on the Oline when they are 320 pds plus and just have to drive block the defender in front of them.

Fred Jackson gained 1,000 yds last yr AND led the entire NFL in All Purpose yardage, adding Spiller to that mix can only make their offense even more effective for what it is designed to do..run..the..ball..

I don't even know where to begin on this one Pads. If all it took for an Oline to be a good run blocking Line was to get a stable of 320 ponders then every team in the NFL would have a good running game. I respect ya bro but you missed the target on this one. :no:

"LandShark13 wrote:

I don't even know where to begin on this one Pads. If all it took for an Oline to be a good run blocking Line was to get a stable of 320 ponders then every team in the NFL would have a good running game. I respect ya bro but you missed the target on this one. :no:

Aw man, well think about it LS..Fred Jackson had 1,000 yds rushing behind the train wreck that was the Bills Oline, he had 2,500+ yds overall, a Oline full of #1 and #2 draft picks and high priced free agents is not always the way things MUST be done..

"padre31 wrote:

Aw man, well think about it LS..Fred Jackson had 1,000 yds rushing behind the train wreck that was the Bills Oline, he had 2,500+ yds overall, a Oline full of #1 and #2 draft picks and high priced free agents is not always the way things MUST be done..

I certainly would agree that high priced FA's are not the way to go. The bills roster is atrocious. That's not to say they don't have some skilled players. I like their secondary and as mentioned their RB's seem to be pretty good. Other than that maybe a decent player here or there with little to no depth.

They aren't really in a position where I would go out and grab High priced FA's. What I would do is what our FO has done with us the last couple of years and that is constantly churn the bottom of the roster.

Remember their first year? Each week they cut one or two players and singed replacements. We added a lot of depth that first year. Last year they did the same thing with their search for acorns. Not nearly as much movement but at that point it was also harder to find upgrades on the waver wire.

Nix has done nothing of note that I have read about. I would wager that right now there are at least a dozen mid to low prices FAs that are better than what they have on their roster. He should be singing these players for depth and competition.

If the Bills plan is to only build through the draft and not address any of there needs in the draft. Then they are in for an uphill battle that they simply can't win.

"Wagon Circler wrote:

You should respect your opponents more instead of having that FE-FI-FO-FUM attitude. After all a much wiser fin fan friend of yours had it right when he tried to explain that the fins were only one game better than the lowwwwwly bills.

You should be more concerned with how many points the bills scored in a win against the fins rather than what they didn't score in a loss against the browns.

And calling CJ Spiller Reggie Bush lite is a really ignorant statement.

My first impression of your football knowledge isn't a good one.

1) Respect is earned my friend

2) Its never that simple is it?

3) Had we been at full strength as we were when we beat you earlier in the season we would have won.

4)I call it like I see it, and what can Spiller do with no QB and no OL?

"Wagon Circler wrote:

So we aren't doing good because we haven't signed any free agents? Are we supposed to sign people just for the sake of signing them or actually get players who will make us better? I mean who would they even sign? There are no impact free agents on the market.

In today's football when most people talk of free agents people always think of the Brandon Marshall's or any other high priced Free Agent. What most people and some front offices overlook is the bottom of the roster.

As I stated in my post that you quoted but didn't thoroughly the Bills aren't in a position where they should be signing high priced free agents. As much as you hate to admit it you are quite far behind the rest of the AFC East and are not in a position to contend. I would wager good money that there are players that are still on the market that could be had for cheap that are better than your 2nd or third stringers.

Your FO needs to be aggressive and continue to turn the bottom of your roster. I know ours still continues to not only sign starters but continues to look look for FA's, Practice squad players, Cut etc players who can upgrade our depth as well. I have yet to see the bills do this and until they do your not even rebuilding. Your staying pat and quite frankly its not going to end well for you guys.

PS. just to be clear You guy's shouldn't be looking for 'impact' free agents. You should be looking for bargain FA's than can improve your depth.

"Wagon Circler wrote:

Right because the bills were full strength all year? It's not like we lead the league with players on the IR or anything..

You lost to Ryan Fitzpatrick and let him run for a 40 yard game winning touchdown. That should make you a little less boastful, but for some reason a 7-9 record fills you with invincibility.

Where did you gather the information that you lead the league in players placed on the IR? I'm not saying its true or it isn't I just can't find the exact stat or the players lost.

Also in response last year and the year before we were 4-2 inside the division. where the Bills were 2-4 last year and 0-6 in 2008. You have to win the games inside your division in order to compete.

Also when you look at the SOS (Strength of Schedule) for last years game your schedule was considerably more difficult than ours. As already stated by multiple sources in the NFL last year we had the most difficult schedule in the NFL last year.

NFL
RNK|Team|Win|Loss|Tie|PCT|SOS
1|Mia|7|9|0|0.438|0.559
2|TB|3|13|0|0.188|0.555
3|CAR|8|8|0|0.500|0.539
4|Ten|8|8|0|0.500|0.539
5|NYG|8|8|0|0.500|0.535
6|Den|8|8|0|0.500|0.527
7|Oak|5|11|0|0.313|0.527
8|Bal|9|7|0|0.563|0.523
9|DET|2|14|0|0.125|0.523
10|Rams|1|15|0|0.063|0.520
11|KC|4|12|0|0.250|0.516
12|NE|10|6|0|0.625|0.516
13|NYJ|9|7|0|0.563|0.516
14|Cle|5|11|0|0.313|0.512
15|ATL|9|7|0|0.563|0.504
16|Buf|6|10|0|0.375|0.504
17|Hou|9|7|0|0.563|0.504
18|CHI|7|9|0|0.438|0.496
19|Jac|7|9|0|0.438|0.496
20|Cin|10|6|0|0.625|0.492
21|WAS|4|12|0|0.250|0.492
22|DAL|11|5|0|0.688|0.488
23|Pit|9|7|0|0.563|0.488
24|PHI|11|5|0|0.688|0.484
25|Sea|5|11|0|0.313|0.477
26|SF|8|8|0|0.500|0.477
27|Ind|14|2|0|0.875|0.473
28|SD|13|3|0|0.813|0.453
29|Ari|10|6|0|0.625|0.445
30|GB|11|5|0|0.688|0.441
31|Min|12|4|0|0.750|0.441
32|NO|13|3|0|0.813|0.426

AFC EAST
Team|Win|Loss|Tie|PCT|SOS
Buf|6|10|0|0.38|0.504
Mia|7|9|0|0.44|0.559
NE|10|6|0|0.63|0.516
NYJ|9|7|0|0.56|0.516

"Wagon Circler wrote:

The bold comment is pure speculation.

For some reason a lot of fin fans have an inflated sense of team worth. The bills are not the bottom feeder you make them out to be. We split with the fins and the Jets last year so your superiority complex doesn't really fit. Especially when you finish one game better. The dolphins have a lot of question marks too man.

We are signing free agents. They are just rookies. The veteran free agent pool isn't exactly gleaming with talent. The best veteran free agent on the market is T.O. and we've been there, done that.

And dolphin fans of all people should understand that every team is in the position to compete right away in today's NFL. You guys went from 1-15 to 11-5 with virtually the same roster.

Ok first bold: are you that secure with your roster to think that there aren't available FA that are better than your second stringers? I mean really?

On to the second part you couldn't be more wrong. I think we only have like 7 (correction 8) guys still on the roster from that 1-15 season. Most of the turn over happend in the first year. Our FO brought in guys week after week that we didn't even know. That didn't stop either. We went a full training camp adding and removing people from our roster then the season started.

It still didn't stop! Most weeks we would cut at least one person and sign their replacement. It was INSANE!. Some weeks we would cut two people and those players would play the next week.

If your going to rebuild you don't rebuild from the top down. You rebuild from the bottom up. That's not to say you don't bring in quality players who can start for you it simply means it doesn't stop their. You always need to churn the bottom of your roster.

Their are upgrades out there bro trust me.

"Wagon Circler wrote:

You get a harder schedule when you are a division winner. There's nothing the bills or the fins can do about that.

2008 doesn't really matter. You are right though we have done poorly in the divisional games as of late. In 2009 we won two more divisional games than we did the year before. Maybe in 2010 we can win two more than we did in 2009. We just have to hope to keep improving in that area. At least we're going in the right direction.

Also understand I hate the Bills, I hate the Jets NE etc. However nothing I said in my first post or any of my followups are based on emotion. I have an account over at Two bills drive and post there from time to time but scan their board daily. I like to know what the rest of the division is doing and I never cause trouble.

Here is our 2007 Roster. Strike outs are players no longer with us.

PS Thanx to Gish for this.

So as you see we didn't win with our 2007 roster we pretty much ripped it to shreds and built anew.

"Frumundah Finnatic wrote:

You are aware that we are still light years ahead of them right? When Buffalo can score more than a FG against the Browns then I may be somewhat close to being slightly worried.

Were you not worried the last time we played them?

They kinda outscored us 24-0 in the 4th quarter.

"Wagon Circler wrote:

Wow you are very thorough.

But the question isn't how many players from the 2007 season are with the team now, rather, which were there in the 2008 season. Quite a few. And that's the turn around in question.

No doubt there's a lot of people gone from the span of 2007 til now. But when you are counting second and third stringers then pretty much every team has a personnel turnover like that every season. The same core that was involved in the 1-15 season was similar to the core that went 11-5 the next year. Coaching and conditioning really helped the dolphins turn it around.

And the bills haven't just sat on their hands like the media wants everyone to believe. We signed Dwan Edwards a 3-4 DE from Baltimore and Andra Davis a 3-4 LB from Denver. Both those players will probably start in our new scheme. I'm sure some dolphin fans even coveted Davis when he was on the market. If those guys start that automatically improves the depth of the team as a whole.

We didn't sign big names but we signed guys that will help our team. I think that's kind of what you said they should do and they have. Maybe not to the magnitude of other AFCE teams, but do the jets FA additions really improve their team that much considering what they lost? I don't think so, personally.

Your argument doesn't amount to a hill of beans when you factor in Chad Pennington vs. John Beck / Cleo Lemon / Trent Green. Chad Pennington and coaching is why we were able to have such a great turnaround. Quarterback. It's the most important position in football. And it's why the Bills won't be successful in 2010.

"Wagon Circler wrote:

Sounds like you overrate Pennington a lot.

You probably think Henne can come in and have the team play just as well or better next year, right? Why does that seem to be a consensus among dolphin fans? Because Chad Pennington wasn't the reason you guys turned it around. It's obvious the run game is what erased your 1-15 season, not Chad Pennington. He was average at best and really unraveled in the playoff game. Unless Henne plays worse than expected next year it should be a overall easy transition.

Pennington will be a backup for the remainder of his career.

I don't think you realize just how good Penny was in 2008. He took over a team that had just went 1-15. Replaced over half its roster with new players, most of them unknowns. Was coming off shoulder surgery and came to camp very late. and still put up these numbers.

RNK|Player|Team|Pos|Comp|Att|Pct|Att/G|Yds|Avg|Yds/G|TD|Int|Lng|Sck|Rate
9th|Chad Pennington|MIA |QB |321|476|67.4|29.8|3,653|7.7|228.3|19|7|80T |24|97.4

67% completion only 7 Ints. He was great in 2008 and if you ask me he should have gotten MVP honors that year to go along with his comeback player of the year award because if he's not on our team in 2008 I doubt we win 8 games.

You state the we are overrating Penny but if your referring to his one bad game of the year I could just as easily argue the fact that you're underrating the Ravens defense. They were ranked #2 in the NFL in 2008 and made it to the AFC championship game. That team was solid.

"Wagon Circler wrote:

Right because the bills were full strength all year? It's not like we lead the league with players on the IR or anything..

You lost to Ryan Fitzpatrick and let him run for a 40 yard game winning touchdown. That should make you a little less boastful, but for some reason a 7-9 record fills you with invincibility.

The only record that matters in this discussion is divisional and head to head. That one win doesn't take away all the work the Bills need to do to even consider being higher than last in the AFC East. In the past two seasons Miami is 8-4 in the division and has won it once. In the past two season Buffalo as I'm sure you know went 2-10 in the division. Head to head Miami is 3-1 vs. Buffalo. The 7-9 record is irrelevant. There were a lot of factors involved in that. The Bills are moving in the right direction I'm sure but let's not pretend that they're not probably two seasons away from being able to threaten NE, NY, and Miami in the division.

Also Miami dealt with as many injuries as Buffalo. Let's be honest here, the Bills offensive line would have sucked if the opening day starters stay healthy all season. They didn't lose a guy like Ronnie Brown. A guy that can change a game and makes opposing defensive coordinators game plan for him.

"muscle979 wrote:

The only record that matters in this discussion is divisional and head to head. That one win doesn't take away all the work the Bills need to do to even consider being higher than last in the AFC East. In the past two seasons Miami is 8-4 in the division and has won it once. In the past two season Buffalo as I'm sure you know went 2-10 in the division. Head to head Miami is 3-1 vs. Buffalo. The 7-9 record is irrelevant. There were a lot of factors involved in that. The Bills are moving in the right direction I'm sure but let's not pretend that they're not probably two seasons away from being able to threaten NE, NY, and Miami in the division.

Bro I'm not so sure they are moving in any direction much less forward. Other than changing coaches what have they done?

"Wagon Circler wrote:

You get a harder schedule when you are a division winner. There's nothing the bills or the fins can do about that.

2008 doesn't really matter. You are right though we have done poorly in the divisional games as of late. In 2009 we won two more divisional games than we did the year before. Maybe in 2010 we can win two more than we did in 2009. We just have to hope to keep improving in that area. At least we're going in the right direction.

Maybe, your Bills are shaky in some of the 5 Must Haves:

Qb
LT
Passrusher
Shut down Cb
Dominant Wr

And losing Bobby April will hurt as well, when a team tries to play small ball football the ST unit has to be good or err.."excitement" will ensue..that was the story in 2008 for us.

And Ireland was a master at churning the lower third of the roster in season and finding talent, he added Lou Polite inseason for example, Nix is an unknown in that regard.