http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6613043
With that putz, Sabean, slamming Cousins' for actually playing the game like he gives a damn, now with Beane ordering his Catcher to not guard home plate MLB's GM's seem to have a distinctive lack of balls.
And not Rawlings model balls either.
Now to be clear, there is perhaps a line that should be drawn between ALWAYS guarding the plate and doing so when it truly matters, JT Snow taking out the Marlins Pudge, and Pudge hanging onto the ball is what MLB is all about to me this wimpy crap just makes me SMH.
[video]http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=13063009[/video]
MLB and Baseball in general IS a contact sport.
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Maybe it's just me but I'd rather have my catcher be "wimpy" but stay healthy and in the line up instead of getting hurt trying to stop 1 run from scoring in a meaningless May game. Of course it's not the macho thing to do but the drop off in production between Buster Posey to Eli Whiteside/Chris Stewart is huge and could cost the Giants a spot at the playoffs all because Posey has to act like a 'real man'.
If it's the playoffs then yes by all means block that plate but not in a meaningless game, no reason to risk a major injury for a single run.
Baseball isn't football or hockey and it's not a contact sport, unless you're talking about the bat hitting the ball of course. -
Heck, may as well play with nerf bats until the playoffs as well.
Toughness does not work like that though Ray, one is tough, or they are not, when I hear about Kirk Gibson setting himself as a batter in the cage and telling his pitchers to throw inside even if they hit him, that is sort of how the game is now.
Heck, it is rare to see players go in hard at second base trying to break up the double play, I've seen runners turn to the side to allow a clear throwing lane before the 2nd basemen even catches the feed.
To me, that is not baseball, that is summer softball league stuff. -
If you want your catcher to do this in a playoff game? Okay fine, THAT makes sense. In a meaningless regular season game? I don't want my all-star catcher anywhere NEAR someone charging homeplate. Padre, baseball is not a contact sport, saying one isn't "tough" because it isn't smart for them to get destroyed is Neanderthal thinking. This isn't football, no one watches baseball for the physical style of play. Like Finkle said, the Giants entire season might be ruined because they were being "tough". Well I'd rather be wimpy, smart and in the playoffs than "tough", stupid and crippled for the year.
Ray Finkle likes this. -
What you call not being tough, I call being smart. I'd rather my players stay healthy than risk injury to try and prevent a single run from scoring in a meaningless game, especially when the drop off in talent from your starting catcher to your back up is so game. That's nice that Posey is a tough guy but by trying to prevent that run from scoring might have cost his team a shot at the playoffs in a game in late May. There's nothing wrong with a catcher making a sweep tag instead of putting his body on the line.
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Well said. I'd rather have a wimpy catcher playing all year instead of a tough guy on the DL. It's just not worth it, especially for a meaningless game.
EDIT: As I type this Saltalamacchia just made a stand up sweep tag at the plate to tag the runner out AND not get killed. See being 'wimpy' can be useful. -
:chuckle:
Tell the fans who paid to attend to stay home, it is a meaningless game.
Oh wait:
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2011/04/21/mlb-attendance-down-significantly/
I'd guess fans already got that memo. -
Well gosh, "smart" means=game losing popularity
Nothing wrong with a sweep tag, at all, however the idea that these are perfumed princes of stratomatic baseball is not very appealing. If "stars" such as Posey who play catcher cannot handle the physical demands of the position then find someone who can, is such a concept that foreign to MLB 2011?
They want the bat in the lineup but heaven forbid they play catcher and risk injury?
Who wants to go out and pay to watch pussified professional athletes? Same entertainment value can found at a tee ball game, perhaps moreso. -
So a catcher making a sweep tag instead of blocking a plate is going to cause the game to lose popularity? Really?
Again though you're missing the point, Posey can play catcher but just be smart about it. There's no reason to block the plate like that when a sweep tag works too.
Seriously though if you take away from a catcher blocking the plate does it really take away from the enjoyment of the game? It's not like if the NFL suddenly decided to prevent sacking the QB or anything like that.
Again, and it's like a broken record, I'd rather my player do his best to stay safe then to be reckless just to please someone sitting at home.
I bet you'd rather McCann be labeled a 'pussifield professional athlete' for doing a sweep tag instead of blocking the plate then be out for the rest of the year if not longer.
If you want to see 'tough guys' for entertainment value watch the UFC. Believe it or not you can watch a good baseball game and be entertained without players trying to kill themselves at home plate. -
Far to often "smart" in MLB means "do not be physical".
If the run scored because he would not do his job you had best believe it, if McCann was knocked out ala Posey that is a part of the game, along with up and in pitches that hit players, and chop blocks to break up double plays, broken hands trying to lay down bunts and outfielders injured running into walls and guys falling into dugouts or the stands or hitting tarps trying to catch foul balls.
Don Baylor would literally let pitches plunk him in the ribs just to take first base, he would not flinch or rub where the ball hit him, just toss the bat down and trot to first base, Pete Rose used to sprint to first base on a walk as if it were a base hit.
I did both things when I played ball as if MLBers did it, why shouldn't I?
Now?
:chuckle:
Oh, I enjoy watching a ball game, problem is fewer people do as well.
Imo because they are trying to make MLB into something it is not, if the game is played properly. -
When Pudge was on roids, wait, I mean when he was in his prime, he could withstand some punishment
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This entire thread is asinine.
Please, someone do us all a favor and lock it. -
Who is "us all"?
And that is "the entire thread is asinine..imo"
Unless of course there was a election and one was made the spokesmen for whatever it is, one is championing? -
'Us all' is the rest of this board that (presumably, although I doubt anyone enjoys conversing over ridiculous topics such as this one) doesn't want to read drivel suggesting MLB GMs have a 'lack of balls' for trying to protect their most valuable assets.
Like I said before, the entire premise of this thread is absurd. -
Protect them doing their jobs?
That is self contradictory. -
Protecting them from taking unneeded risk. The dropoff in catchers from someone like Posey to a backup is immense and can easily cripple a team. How is putting that kind of player on the line to prevent a single run that he could stand a decent chance of tagging a good move? How?
Baseball is NOT about being tough and taking hits - these aren't linebackers and fullbacks. They are to skilled and rare to waste in collisions like that.Ray Finkle likes this. -
Because it is a part of the job.
Can be, reducing the level of competition to tee ball levels is not exactly raising the bar Tex, if anything it merely perpuates the notion that MLB is kinda soft and kinda boring. -
To you - no one is forcing you to watch it. To most baseball fans, the strategic decisions (when to hit and run, managing the bullpen, etc.) made over the course of the game are what make the league so entertaining and compelling.
So go watch the CFL. No matter how much you want to make it so, baseball is not and will not ever be a contact sport.
And for the record, this thread has essentially morphed into a 'why Padre31 doesn't particularly like the sport of baseball' b*tchfest.
Quality discussion, indeed.Ray Finkle likes this. -
Wow, can I ge those glasses that see only what I want them to see?
Listed several places where Baseball is a contact sport, you've done nothing but say it is not, nevermind rebutting the examples, merely crossing your arms and saying "no it is not" is hardly a "quality effort" on your behalf.
You've done nothing but throw up whatever one thinks will deflect the fact Beane told his catcher, to not block the plate, no caveat about "except for playoff games", nothing, if prissy baseball appeals to the fans who have left the game then by all means, let the Sabeans and Beanes of MLB continue to neuter the game.
My goodness sportscience has a study up on the fact a player trying to reach home plate when a catcher is blocking the plate generates a collusion more violent then a hit on a Qb, and they do not wear pads, and yet one will insist "baseball is not a contact sport". -
Well said Patsy.
Look Padre it's obvious you have a problem with what Billy Beane told Suzuki but you just don't understand Beane's point or why he said those comments to Suzuki. You have to look at it from Beane's perspective and like Texanphatic said, the risk of injury as well as the drop off from even someone like Kurt Suzuki (who's not a superstar especially compared to Posey) to Landon Powell (his back up) is so big that the risk of injury to possible save 1 run or even 1 baseball game is not worth the risk of having that catcher eliminated for the rest of the season. You may not like it and think that because a catcher won't block the plate makes the game boring but in the eyes of a GM and the team the risk is simply not worth it. Seriously you thinking that a catcher not wanting to block the plate is equal to teeball quality of play is just silly. -
I do see where Beane is coming from, why risk a Catcher who is talented offensively to stop a seemingly meaningless run from scoring?
My answer to it is "because that is how the game is meant to be played".
If the Catcher feels, say Suzuki feels, that the play can be made with a swipe tag that's fine and his call, but there are times when the Catcher has to set up in the line of fire so to speak, for the GM to tell him not to play that way is not being true to what makes MLB a great sport.
It's not stats or what have you, it is MLB is probably the most difficult sport to play as so much is required to play it, MLB is a sport that requires really tough men and imho the game is getting watered down and moving to a place where Contracts and Long Term Production control everything.
I can live with some of the stuff that Arbitration and Draftee signing bonuses are doing to front offices in terms of player moves, however the on the field product is a physical contest not one about "Well, down the road" imo. -
Go ask the 41,000+ Giant fans in attendance on May 25th which outcome they would've preferred:
A) Losing the game
B) Losing Posey for the rest of the season
See which hand fills up faster. -
Ask them if they feel baseball is a contact sport and ask them if they want their players to try and stop the opponent from scoring runs whilst one is putting forward questions.
My goodness, Brian Cashman opined that "pitchers should not have to run the bases" after Chin mi Wong injured himself, shall we wrap them in bubble wrap and play strat o matic games until the playoff teams emerge? -
How about choice C, which is losing the game AND losing Posey for the season which is what ended up happening.
Again I don't understand how people don't get that possibly giving up a single run or possibly losing a meaningless game (remember there is alternative ways for a catcher to tag out a base runner by not blocking the plate and risking injury) is worth losing a starting catcher over. Let's not even bring up the fact of how good Posey is but the drop off between any starting catcher to a back up is just too great and simply not worth the risk.
***WARNING ADVANCE STAT DISCUSSION/RANT COMING UP READ AT OWN RISK*** I mean if you want to get into advance stats Posey's WAR (wins above replacement- which factors in both hitting and defense) last year was 3.1, meaning he helps his team win 3.1 extra games by being in the line up compared to an average replacement. His back up was Eli Whiteside who had a 0 WAR last year, while Benjie Molina, the Giants starting catcher before Posey had a -.6 (yes that's right a negative .6). Posey being in the Giants line up last year even in a limit number of AB and games meant they got 3 additional wins by him simply replacing Molina and Whiteside. Last time I checked the Giants won the NL West by 2 games and then ultimately won the WS. This year, like last year, the NL West is wide open and there's no clear favorite to run away from the pack. By losing Posey for the year because of a meaningless May game might be the difference between the Giants making the playoffs or not. But hey at least he was a real man and blocked the plate right? ***END OF ADVANCE STAT DISCUSSION/RANT***
I still don't get how exactly baseball is a contact sport either. A player running into an OF wall to try and make a catch, or a HBP or a player sliding into 2nd to break up a double play aren't good examples nor does it make it a contact sport. Maybe it's me but when I think of contact sports I think of football, hockey, boxing and MMA where on every play guys are knocking into each other and they HAVE to. In baseball it's extremely rare and you might not even see one of those examples in a single game.