1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

BPK's All-Underrated Dolphins Trio

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bpk, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    This season, these three guys will elicit a 'Where'd this guy come from?" from the average fan who doesn't follow the team too closely.

    Rishard Matthews
    Dion Sims
    Will Davis


    Rishard Matthews
    Strong, goes after the ball like he owns it, showed well in limited looks last season, and hearing good things about him in camp this year. Also fits this system very well, as he can play inside or outside. Will make plays for us when it counts and doesn't shy away from contact (i.e. hangs onto the ball in traffic and at the goalline).


    Dion Sims
    Can excute all manner of blocks well. Plays with power and leverage. Surprising quickness at his college weight, which will be even more surprising and even quicker now that he has dropped weight. don't be surprised if he is our starting tight end by 2015, or 2014 if Egnew washes out and Keller demands too much after this season. This year, Dion will be in on 2 TE sets, and goalline and 3rd and short. His blocking will not only help Miller on some runs in those situations (watched him seal Cam Wake inside on a nice outside zone combo block drill with Tyson Clabo today) but his sneaky quicks will let him release for some very nice playaction receptions and maybe even a couple TDs.


    Will Davis
    This kid can flat out break on a ball. When he plants his foot to change direction, he has the kind of closing burst Vontae Davis had. Unfortunately he is the opposite of Vontae when it comes to physicality and tackling. I expect to see Davis work his way into the dime package and get an INT or two by breaking on underneath balls. He is not as good playing the deep ball, but there is potential for him to develop I suppose. Love him as a dime back inside against a team that rarely runs out of passing formations.

    Bonus Underdog To Make The Team: Jasper Collins
    With perhaps the second best short shuttle time on the team (4.07 to Will Davis' 4.02), if this kid can demonstrate technique in route running, he will be a difficult receiver to contain when he cuts on routes. Also a potential return guy for us. Curious about whether his measurables translate to an NFL practice field.

    It may only be a few plays, or a couple games, but they will have their moments to shine, if not become bigger contributors than most would expect right now.
     
    DOLPHAN1, Fin D, smahtaz and 15 others like this.
  2. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Agree with all of them :up:

    Sent from my HTC One GE using Tapatalk 4 Beta
     
  3. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

    3,560
    968
    113
    Apr 19, 2012
    Treasure Coast, FL
    Nicely Done. I would like to throw in Jonas Gray. Distant 4th but maybe the only other relevant one.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  4. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,681
    44,611
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I'd add Koa Misi to the list. Maybe Armon Binns and/or Marvin McNutt as well.
     
    HULKFish and The Rev like this.
  5. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Chris Clemons is going to have a pro-bowl alternate season.

    Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk 2
     
    unluckyluciano likes this.
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Binns, Taylor, Vernon.

    Trying to throw some postive vibes towards Egnew, hope he improves
     
    dolfan22 likes this.
  7. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

    2,160
    900
    113
    Aug 5, 2011
    Indianapolis, IN
    I'm definitely on the Armon Binns bandwagon like a few others here as well as Olivier Vernon too. I feel like I'm in the minority here too but don't sleep on Charles Clay, I have way more hope for him than Egnew and even with Sims being around I still think Clay can be an asset. He has games every now and then that really makes me think he can be a number 1 tight end but he needs some consistency.
     
    gunn34, HULKFish and Bpk like this.
  8. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Koa Misi has been a bit the forgotten man on defense. Since I'm not clear on his role or how much he'll be used, it's hard to project how he'll look this season.
     
  9. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Not sure I have a 'Buy"rating on Binns YET, only because he needs to prove it on game day to me. I recall some inconsistency last year.

    Charles Clay must prove himself a capabl blocker and stay uninjured, and mentally consistent if he is to get enough snaps. His last hope is as our H-back (I think Lane is gone and Clay takes on a hybrid role).

    And he doesn't look the part of a #1 TE to me whatesoever. More of a guy you bring in as a mismatch and move around a bit for passes out of the backfield, or as a (hopefully) decent lead blocker. I can't see him as an inline, next to the RT tight end, nor really that effective split out and starting on the LOS. Also, lacks the height this staff wants as their #1 TE, imo.
     
  10. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    17,638
    14,096
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Pearl, Mississippi
    Don't forget Martin, the DT, even if his praise came from Omar. It sounds like he is doing quite well early. The wr competition is the most intense I can remember in some time, even though the first three at the position are settled. Binns, McNutt, Fuller, and Matthews are stepping up the competition, and you might see others emerge as well such as Collins.
     
  11. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I heard Collins wasn't impressive at OTAs, but maybe something changes.

    I haven't heard anything to indicate that Martin's doing well. THe most I have heard is indirect stuff about the D-line owning the Oline a few times, and some screen captures of Martin completely not noticing a blitzing OLB a couple days ago as he allowed a sack on Tannehill.

    What did Omar say about Martin?
     
  12. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

    10,823
    2,214
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    It is a longer reach at this point but from camp tweets a such Marvin McNutt might slip in amongst them.
     
  13. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

    3,560
    968
    113
    Apr 19, 2012
    Treasure Coast, FL
    Still misi has been a starter for what, 3 years now? Binns is another one but Doest have the potential of Matthews or the others listed. Kelcie MCray ?
     
  14. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,681
    44,611
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I imagine he'll be a 2-down starter, same as he was last year. Hopefully his play will be even better. He took a nice step forward last season, so hopefully he's still on the uptick.
     
  15. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    17,638
    14,096
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Pearl, Mississippi
    I meant the defensive tackle, number 90. He has been impressive so far. Omar said he was noticeable two days in a row, so he would start watching him more. No, I wish I could say the other Martin was doing well.
     
  16. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

    2,160
    900
    113
    Aug 5, 2011
    Indianapolis, IN
    Maybe number #1 TE is stretching it but there are some games he just looks dangerous and then he disappears from others. Last year against Seattle being one of those games where you think he could really be a nice player for us. Then there was that game against the Rams where he couldn't get the first down and ran out of bounds short of the first down when we were trying to run the clock out. He is possibly the most frustrating player on the roster IMO, but he has shown us he can make plays.

    It would be interesting to see him out of the backfield more though....here's to hoping he's the next Larry Centers
     
    Bpk likes this.
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I'm almost beginning to think its an "either or" scenario with Binns and McNutt. They seem to be the same player: both 23/24yrs old, both 6'3", both ran a 4.5/40yrd, both sure handed possession types.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  18. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

    2,160
    900
    113
    Aug 5, 2011
    Indianapolis, IN
    I definitely agree that it's an either or between McNutt and Binns as I think we carry only 5 WR's, I'm fairly sure Matthews has a spot with Gibson, Hartline and Wallace already. At this point there seems to be more reports about Binns, at the end of the day I think we go with who ever is better in the red zone though.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    See, I'm not convinced we only go with 5 WRs, but even if we go with 6, I'm still wondering if its either Binns or McNutt, not both. since they are so similar....
     
  20. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

    2,160
    900
    113
    Aug 5, 2011
    Indianapolis, IN
    True I really don't know yet. I've heard some things about Tyms too so who knows, preseason can't get here fast enough. I want to see for myself instead of reading training camp reports. Getting my tickets to the game in Houston!
     
    Fin D likes this.
  21. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,681
    44,611
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Well from what I've seen McNutt would be the "Marlon Moore" of the two of them, if you will. I don't think Binns gives you much of anything on special teams.

    Binns is more polished at receiver though.

    Ultimately I think the numbers are based on if Miami rosters a true FB, and how many depth guys they keep on the O-line. I think 5 receivers is what the number will be, so I agree that it is probably either or between those two.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  22. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Yeah, I agree on the WR group. From top to bottom, it's pretty good. We could actually have a guy like Fuller or McNutt cut and have an impact with some other team. I can't remember the last time that sentence would have been typed out about our WR corps...

    Knowing that the starting DL is the obvious strength of this team, it's intriguing how much rotational ability we now have as well as the potential packages that could be rolled out with guys like Jordan, VO, the LBers blitzing and naturally a little Jimmy Wilson blitz once in a while to produce potential turnovers...

    Off the reports here (boo hoo for me, can't attend camp from 800 miles away), I'd have to say the surprise guys might be

    Vaughn Martin - just might be as good as our starters and keep Starks and Odrick fresher during the season... As I said, the depth is phenomenal along the DL.

    Mathews - This kid looks ready to burst onto the scene. The one thing that might interfere is the development that Binns is having. However, we could see this kid really blossom as the #4 WR. He fits the mold that Sherman/Philbin like, he's Jennings/Driver-esque in stature, a bit
    heavier but possibly a bit faster than either. We'll get a better look in the preseason, but he looks special to me..

    VO - I think this kid is ready to burst onto the scene as a legit pass rushing DE in this scheme. I wouldn't be shocked to see Jordan and VO as our starting DEs in another year or two...but the reports thru the minicamps, OTAs and so far in TC have been pointing to this kid becoming the next big thing on D...
     
    smahtaz and Bpk like this.
  23. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I don't see the same physical potential or upside for Misi. I think he is a competent starter, or fantastic depth.
     
  24. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Agree that he has flashed, been inconsistent and frustrating. Probably even more so for the coaches than for us.

    If he could do a faster Chris Cooley imitation for us for a couple of seasons I'd be thrilled.
     
  25. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Seems like Fuller is on the outside looking in.

    The 6th WR to be rostered would have to be a special teams ace. That's why I am keeping an eye on Jasper Collins. Brings very different things to the table than the other bottom-of-the-roster receivers.
     
  26. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    It's also, a little bit, whether Egnew sticks as a receiving target on the roster.
     
  27. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Agree on Matthews (obviously). Martin as good as Starks, Odrick, Soliai? Slow your roll. Let's see him in pre-season action against Ones. VO is intriguing. I hadn't figured in Wake working with VO, or VO's drive and commitment when I said he'd NEVER be a decent rush DE last season. I still tend to see VO as a decent to average run down DE (who needs to learn to get off blocks sooner) who offers the big advantage of being able to drop into coverage and allow disguised blitzes. I hope to be wrong about VO and see him play well this season. The cynic in me wonders if VO looking good in camp isn't more about Martin looking bad, though.
     
  28. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,681
    44,611
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    As compared to who...? Dion Jordan?

    Misi had his best season last year, and he's been a starter since 2010. I think having faster guys in the corps like Ellerbe and Wheeler will allow him to do a little more than he did last year as well.
     
  29. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,681
    44,611
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I dunno. Miami kept 5 TEs on the roster last year: Fasano, Clay, Egnew, Jeron Mastrud, and Kyle Miller. I'd expect they'll probably keep 3-4, at least. Whether or not Egnew's one of them, we'll see; they could certainly cut him and grab another TE from another team. But I'd be surprised if they kept 6 receivers on the roster.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  30. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Yes. I think this year you sprinkle Dion in at whatever pace he can handle, but the moment he can handle the responsibilities, I think you'd rather see him at Misi's spot than Misi.
     
  31. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,681
    44,611
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    That could very well be their plan. But I think it's unlikely Dion Jordan starts in the base defense this year.
     
  32. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Not at the outset of the year, likely not by the end... but it's possible he takes Misi's spot by late in the season.

    More likely we see him on long passing downs only. What I wonder is, will he have his hand in the dirt at all this season, or stand outside OV as a rush OLB in nickel.... in which case Wheeler is probably not on the field, nor is Misi in nickel.

    And nickel accounts for probably more snaps than any other defensive formation in today's NFL. Seriously.
     
  33. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,681
    44,611
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Why would Wheeler be off the field? You could easily see a 3-3 alignment that consists of:

    DE - Vernon
    DT - Starks or Odrick
    DE - Wake
    OLB - Jordan
    MLB - Ellerbe
    OLB - Wheeler
     
  34. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Thought I'd re-visit and update on these three:

    Rishard Matthews
    Has just returned from injury. Reportedly made a big play in practice. I expect he'll be wroked back in gradually, so we may not see more of him until the Bucs pre-season game in two weeks. Still expect he will be noticeable producer and surprise a few people who don;t realize what a strong, determined receiver he is when it counts.


    Dion Sims
    Pretty much as expected. Has been blocking great. Missed a chance at a TD versus Dallas when he was wide open in the back of the endzone but Matt Moore chose to eat a sack on a rollout to the wrong side for his throwing arm. Dion narrowly missed another TD vs the Jags in this past game, down at the 1 yd line. But note that he was the lead block that opened the hole for Gray's TD on the next play from the one Pretty much what he'll be doing this year: creating great playaction and passing opportunities out of run formations, and also springing backs for nice runs and TDs. Thrilled with this kid thus far. Best #2 TE in the division.


    Will Davis
    Again, playing as I expected. Great break on the ball, good hands and an INT machine (in practice, and on e in the Jags game). Also very suspect effort in tackling, and occasionally gets burned deep by a WR because of his aggressiveness. The other nice surprise in the jags game was seeing Coyle use Davis' amazing acceleration to blitz the QB from the slot. He gets there in a hurry. Great upside with this kid.

    Bonus Underdog To Make The Team: Jasper Collins
    In hindsight, I kick myself for picking Collins over Bumphis as I considered a possible slot and return guy. I liked Bumphis name and game, but just felt he was inconsistent and didn't have the great measureables to make up for it. I bet on Collins amazing change of direction and acceleration numbers in the shuttle as something that would translate to the NFL field. Apparently it didn't do so well enough and Bumphis' performance made Collins expendable.

    Looking forward to seeing how the rest of the preseason and season pans out for this trio of up-and-coming young players.
     
  35. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    Mathews has the speed and quicks, good size as well and he's a playmaker- hopes are high.

    Davis- great hands and he certainly gets to where he wants to go in a hurry. Could be a game changer for us.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ0OcybS0ZM

    Davis against Patton from Lousiana Tech, who I liked quite a bit:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCDCJ6jiSko

    Dion Sims- a lot to like, especially at 260-265 lbs. One heck of a blocker, very good hands, quick feet, pretty good speed. A cheaper version of Anthony Fasano, but could be an upgrade. Although I like quite a bit of Sims' game, what I don't see is that deep threat, seam busting aspect ever really being there in a major way. The good news is that we have Keller and maybe Clay/Egnew for that, Sims is a solid meat and potatoes blocking TE with some pass catching upside and ability- solid, but he's no Dallas Clark in his prime, or Jimmy Graham. That being said, I like Sims quite a bit, darned good 4th rd pick. Just not that prime seam busting threat that you'd ideally want.

    ps I certainly hope that Dallas Thomas and Jelani Jenkins pan out, because we passed up some darned good players, including WRs, to draft those guys. Jenkins was a good coverage LB at UF but hardly stout at the point of attack and for Thomas, the jury is certainly out. Truth be told, that pick pissed me off with so many good impact players on the board at the time.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  36. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Matthews plays with power, imo, and people underestimate his speed, which helps him, I think.

    Davis is like a T-Buck. He'll make big plays but also give up key plays on non-tackles and getting beaten deep. Except, I don't see him as becoming a #2 corner as a result, ideally, but being one of the better nickel/dime CBs in the league eventually (3 years time).

    Agree on Sims. That's how I pegged him. A blocking TE who is surprisingly quick (not top end speed) with agile feet and very soft hands. Not a deep seam threat or #1 TE in the mold of current receiving TEs. Sims catches will come out of running situations, formations and playaction where he can either dominate a block at the POA or punish a D for overplaying the run. Best #2 TE in the division. And in this offense that means a lot, and is a huge advantage. It makes the offense unpredictable, even near the goalline or on short yardage. That opens the playbook more too. Huge puzzle piece for our offensive machine to function. It also backs the LBs off a bit, adding to the running room for backs. I'd wager if you tracked YPC with Sims on and off the field this year in the same personnel groupings (2 TE etc) to isolate other variables a bit, you'd see the Sims effect of another .3 or .5 yards or something on the backs carries. Great 4th round pick and I don't think it ever crosses your mind to make him a Graham or Clark.

    Jelani, when I watch him, moves more like a big safety than a LB. can't explain it better than that. I expect he'll be a STs standout as he learns more from Rizzi. And honestly, Spitler is an appalling tackler so I'm ready to see Jelani replace him and hopefully develop to a higher ceiling as a coverage LB.

    Dallas Thomas has disappointed me in both outings. The second one less so.

    Which impact players did you want at that pick?
     
  37. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Little update...


    Dion Sims showed up with a horrible mistake on the whiffed block, but then a gorgeous, calm TD catch with soft hands on the game winner. This is his forte, playaction at the goalline. Seriously, he is built to catch TDs on short yardage goalline playaction. Expect a few more this season.

    Rishard Matthews has gotten very few snaps this season, but in this game he showed up and helped us on the winning drive. Strong legs, clutch ctaches. Proud of him.

    Will Davis... your time will come.

    This young team has SO much potential.
     
  38. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

    3,840
    636
    0
    Feb 26, 2013
    That whiffed blocked was inexcusable y Sims. That was a fireable offense.
     
  39. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Dion Sims Snaps

    Browns
    18 (22%)

    Colts
    34 (52%)

    Falcons
    12 (21%)

    Saints
    7 (12%)




    Wil Davis Snaps

    Browns
    0 (0%)

    Colts
    0 (0%)

    Falcons
    1 (0.1%)

    Saints
    0 (0%)




    Rishard Matthews Snaps

    Browns
    13 (19%)

    Colts
    8 (12%)

    Falcons
    14 (25%)

    Saints
    11 (18%)
     
  40. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Well, Matthews has had his big game now. Dion Sims had his moment.

    Just waiting on Will Davis to get his chance to lead the highlight reel on a pick six.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
    dolfan22 likes this.

Share This Page