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Brent Grimes, how much is he going to get on a new contract?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Paul 13, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Pretty safe to say that after earning his second pro bowl berth yesterday, and knowing how great of a season he's had for us, we will pursue signing him between now and the start of free agency to a long term deal. The question remains though: How much is Brent going to get? What's a player of his age (30 years old, turning 31 before the start of next season) and injury history (ruptured achilles in Sept of 2012) worth?

    Considering the limited increase in relative cap from 2013 to 2014, $123m to $126.3m (roughly 3%). It would be easy to multiply the top contracts signed in 2013 for corners by said 3% and use that as a basis. However, the only player who signed a contract worthy of a top 10 average was Darrelle Revis, and his $16m per blows everyone in the top 10 away, thanks Tampa Bay. Also have to note that his contract does not include guaranteed money.

    The 2013 corner market was incredibly soft, relative to the prior two seasons. The top corner on the 2013 market not associated with a geographical land mass was Sam Shields and the Packers tendered him at a paltry $2.023m contract because he was a restricted free agent. Other top corners from that 2013 group signed on average between $5m and $6m per season, including Brent's 1 year deal for "only" $5.5m.

    But IMO, Brent is worth more than the $5.5m * 3% increases over the next 3 to 5 years. The question though remains, how much more? If he wants to be the second highest paid corner in the league (between $11m and $16m) per year, he's in for a rude awakening.

    To help us in our research, lets look at the top 10 contracts based on average per year for all corners in the league. The player ages are relevant and are based on when they signed their contract.

    1. Darrelle Revis on 4/21/13 (Age 26) signed a 6yr $96m contract, ZERO guaranteed.. gotta love the Bucs, messing up the process because they are a gazillion dollars under the cap.
    2. Champ Bailey on 2/22/11 (Age 33) signed a 4yr $43m contract, $15m guaranteed
    3. Brandon Carr on 3/14/12 (Age 25) signed a 5yr $50.1m contract, $25.5m guaranteed
    4. Cortland Finnegan on 3/13/12 (Age 28) signed a 5yr $50m contract, $27m guaranteed
    5. Leon Hall on 9/2/11 (Age 26) signed a 5yr $42.375m contract, $14.1m guaranteed
    6. Johnathan Joseph on 7/29/11 (Age 27) signed a 5yr $48.75m contract, $23.5m guaranteed
    7. Brandon Flowers on 9/16/11 (Age 25) signed a 6yr $49.35m contract, $22m guaranteed
    8. Jason McCourty on 8/23/12 (Age 25) signed a 6yr $44.26m contract, $17m guaranteed
    9. Ladarius Webb on 4/5/12 (Age 26) signed a 6yr $52.7m contract, $20m guaranteed
    10. Tramon Williams on 11/23/10 (Age 27) signed a 5 yr $38.148m contract, $11.074 guaranteed

    Does Brent belong in the list above? His pro bowl status would seem to suggest he does. Yet his age and injury history are legitimate concerns. Of the 10 players listed above, only 1 was in his 30s when he signed his contract. Champ Bailey is a first ballot Hall of Famer. All of the other players were at least 2 years younger than Grimes and none of them had an Achilles injury on their resume.

    It's easy to see that the Dolphins and Mrs Grimes (his agent) could be very far apart in their starting negotiating points. The Dolphins are likely starting in the $6m to $7m per season range. Miko Grimes, a unique agent by today's standards even (fantastic birthday cake designer), will likely start with this top 10 list, look at the average per season of about $10m and expect a raise on top of that.

    I would argue that placing the franchise tag on Grimes for the second time in three years is a short term fix and likely won't make the Grimes camp very happy. Until they realize that $12m guaranteed or whatever the franchise # is for corners next season, is a pretty nice payday for someone that had to "settle" for $5.5m the prior year.

    Now, if I were offering the contract. I'd look at how far each side is apart and use that gap to rationalize yearly increases from $7m per season to closer to $10m per season over the length of a 4 year contract, given certain bonuses and benchmarks etc. Something in the neighborhood of 4 years, $37m with $17m guaranteed.

    The guaranteed money is most important. Again, Grimes' family could look at a 1 year franchise tag of $12m vs a 4 year contract at $17m and decide the franchise tag isn't so bad after all.

    I've seen estimates from posters here that have been fairly unrealistic (pay him $12m per year). So I thought I should do a little research to inform the masses before we embark on a serious discussion. Resign Brent Grimes!!! yes.... certainly... but for how much????
     
  2. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    4 yr $32 Million. That'd be my starting pt I think.
     
  3. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Additional food for thought... look at the 2014 free agent list for cornerbacks (this is in order by current year average salary). This is a much better list than 2013 and a reason why teams were reluctant to sign players like Talib and Grimes to anything longer than 1 year deals last year.

    Charles Tillman
    Brent Grimes
    Aqib Talib
    Josh Wilson
    Tim Jennings
    Tarell Brown
    Vontae Davis
    Sam Shields
    Corey Graham
    Tracy Porter
    Mike Jenkins
    EJ Biggers
    Antoine Cason
    Cassius Vaughn
    DeAngelo Hall
    Quentin Jammer
    Captain Munnerlyn
    Chris Cook
    Christopher Owens
    Javier Arenas
    Usama Young
    Rashean Mathis
    Drayton Florence
    Chris Crocker
    Kelvin Hayden
    Richard Marshall
    Chris Carr
    Alterraun Verner
    Zack Bowman
    Don Carey
    Aaron Ross
    Phillip Adams
    Brandon Browner
    Eric Wright
    Elbert Mack
    Marquice Cole
    Michael Adams
    William Middleton
    Steve Vallos
    Will Blackmon
    Bryan McCann
    Trumaine McBride
    Bryan McCann
    Walter Thurmond
    Dominique Franks
    Ellis Lankster
    Danny Gorrer
    Aaron Berry
    Brandon Ghee
    Sherrick McManis
    Nolan Carroll
    Chimdi Chekwa
     
  4. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Whatever he makes won't be enough for his wife, by all appearances.
     
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  5. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Other factors that I've neglected to consider are who else is currently on the Dolphins roster for 2014 at the position?

    Dmitri Patterson (although everyone has him being released... I would rework his contract especially if Grimes is not resigned)
    Jamar Taylor. Rookie, we (the fans) don't know what we have in him.
    Will Davis. Rookie... see above although he proved to be a playmaker in the mold of Terrell Buckley in the preseason. Like TBuck... at what cost.
    Jimmy Wilson. He'll be back, including because he's a nickel cornerback.
    Jalil Brown.
    Michael Thomas. See Jimmy Wilson.

    Nolan Carroll is a free agent.
     
  6. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    eh... you could say that for at least 50% of married men. Hence, why 50% of marriages end in divorce.
     
  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Oh for ****s sake, really? Are we going to go through this whole thing about Brent Grimes wife every time he comes up?

    This board has some real serious women issues.
     
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  8. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    well it does speak to the unique nature of her being his agent. not just his wife. I think it's definitely relevant. I don't think anyone has crossed a line in this thread yet either, but could be wrong :shifty:
     
  9. He's good but I hope they don't resign him honestly, it's going to cost too much.
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd start at 3/25..see what the lady thinks..you know she will be shopping around..hope the city of Miami gives us an edge in the negotiations..

    Best corner since Madison and surtain..maybe a better year than any year those two ever had.
     
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  11. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I think she's hilarious in a good way, and you don't normally see players' families interacting with fans—mommabilly train wreck aside. And given that this is the first and only time I've posted about her, I'm not quite sure what you're alluding to.

    Though the fact remains she has complained about Grimes not getting a big contract in his career in a way that implies that Grimes shares the sentiment. It's something to keep in mind when contract negotiations come up, especially once you consider a. Grimes is a candidate for the franchise tag, and b. our current franchisee, Randy Starks, complained about a lowball contract offer prior to being franchised.
     
  12. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    4/40 with 17 guaranteed

    a good #2 corner is worth 7/year
     
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  13. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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  14. Daben

    Daben Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a franchise tag and 12 million for the year to me. 4 for 40 would be fair considering other contracts out there and his age, but he may think he can do better on the open market. The coaching staff on the defensive side of the ball seem to have a lot of confidence in their ability to get performance out of average talent players at that position, so who knows. Also depends on who is actually going to be in charge of personnel to make this decision?
     
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  15. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wouldn't franchise him. Offer him a reasonable deal, something around 15 million guaranteed and if he refuses thank him for the year and move on. I like him but big contracts for cornerbacks are bad news, when has any team not regretted signing a corner back to a huge contract?
     
  16. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    2. Champ Bailey on 2/22/11 (Age 33) signed a 4yr $43m contract, $15m guaranteed
     
  17. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    At least admit now that you had forgotten his wife is his agent.
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes sir..I'll put grimes year up against theirs..I haven't done my research on this one but from what I remember, I don't think it's far fetched.
     
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  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Brent grimes has not given up a TD pass this season...ummmm, that's a pretty stat for a corner, seemingly helping my statement.

    That 100 yarder pick six to win the game against the chargers needs to factor in..not sure I ever seen the athleticism and speed from Madison to make that type of play..
     
  20. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    based on INT's alone, Grimes has 17, Surtain and Madison had 37 and 38. But IMO, Grimes has been more consistent this year than Madison in his prime. Madison was always good for a couple of TD's given up on an annual basis to the Jets.
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm only talking about season against season..this one for grimes up against anyone that Madison or surtain did.

    Has..not..given..up..TD..pass..

    Lol.
     
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  22. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just comparing this season alone, it does stack up favorably. He's been great this year, no doubt. Just factoring in age, injury, etc. though it makes his contract situation interesting. We would have a big hole to fill if he leaves, but we can't tie up a huge amount of money in him either. Tough to call on this one. I'd say our chances of keeping him aren't that great but who knows. There always seems to be a desperate team willing to overpay for a corner. I'd expect Dallas or Washington to go after him considering how bad their defenses were and having to play Philly twice a year....
     
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  23. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I guess a possible analgous signing could be Charles Woodson when Green Bay signed him. Brent just turned 30. Woodson turned 30 a few months after he signed a 7 year deal with Green Bay in 2006.
     
  24. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I don't know... I think Charles Woodson is a first ballot HOFer. But when he started his career in Green Bay, you're right, it could draw comparisons. IMO when he was a Raider, he was nothing compared to the player he was in Green Bay. The Packer DB coach really turned his career around.

    EDIT, 7 years $52m contract in 2006... that was a HUGE contract by 2006 standards.
     
  25. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I like you DJ, but you either haven't watched the Dolphins for very long or are the craziest homer in the bunch. Those are the only two rational explanations as to why you post these types of things lol.

    Sam Madison/Pat Surtain > Brent Grimes. It's not even debatable, I feel. It's more a statement of fact.

    While neither one possessed freakish athletic skills or speed, their coverage skills were top notch and their ability to diagnose mid-play and ball hawk was spectacular. And they did it in press man-to-man coverage, in a much tougher and competitive division than today (and at one time included Manning and co. 2x a year). Madison from 1998-2001 seasons was all-world. Surtain from 2000-2004 was a top 5 corner. Surtain was likely the better of the two in the long run because Madison was more of a gambler and had trouble holding on to INT's later in his career. Really Madison should of had around 50 picks for his career. Even still, he balled out with the best of them.



    Sam Madison is a 2x all-pro (not to be confused with pro bowler) as in, recognized around the league as 1 of the 2 best in all the NFL (he was the best those years). There was no one better in 98, 99, 2000, 2001. Those 4 years, Madison dominated. From then on, he was still a great CB. He just never dominated as he once did.





    [​IMG]
     
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  26. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    We've given money to guys who haven't deserved it. Grimes has earned every penny. Pay the man.

    Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk
     
  27. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Listen Sam :shifty: you were great, but it's over. Time to move on with the next phase in your life... used car sales :wink2:
     
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  28. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I agree.

    Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain are better than Grimes, and it is not even close. That's the best two cornerbacks in Dolphins history.

    Oh, and Tom Heckert Jr. is the guy that convinced Jimmy Johnson to draft Sam Madison in the 2nd round and take Jason Taylor in the 3rd. Bam! Just like that, Tom Heckert Jr. is already responsible for drafting more great players than Jeff Ireland has. Tom Heckert Jr. should be this team's GM.
     
  29. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    Sam Madison was one of the best 3 corners in the league for a 5 year span. He also did it in press man, with bad safeties. I think Sam Madison is the best corner this franchise has EVER had, including Pat Surtain.
     
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  30. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Wow do I agree. Sam was as good as it gets and people must be forgetting that. I'd venture to say in 2 seasons he was the BEST corner in football. I like grimes a lot and he played well. But it's not close.
     
  31. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    This is our winner.

    I am good at this..and apparently Stitches is good at this as well..
     
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