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Bret Bielema Says Talks To Coach Phins Broke Down In 2012 Because Of Russell Wilson

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by shamegame13, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    I thought that was pretty self-explanatory, not that I agree, because as of right now RT17's book isn't completely (or close to) being finished yet. So I can't make a decision like that yet.
     
  2. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    If QBs won Super Bowls Marino would have at least a couple rings, guys like Hostetler, Rypien, Johnson, Williams, Dilfer etc would have 0. It's a team sport, offense, defense, ST, Rodgers is sitting at home right now bc Seattle has a better TEAM.

    I have no issue with RW and no problem giving him his props but save the nonsense cause I know better.
     
  3. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Pennington, pocket passer with limited mobility and arm strength. Made a career throwing check downs and safe throws. Never came close to winning anything. Not even sure how he entered the discussion but Ok.
     
  4. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    So basically Wilson is better and would have fared better bc you say so. Got it.

    Im waiting for someone to chime in with how OUR team would build an offense around Wilson with the pieces we've had. Hartline and Bess as the only viable WRs in 2012, craptastic OL in 2013 and the 2nd half of 2014. No consistent run game, no elite defense or ST unit, no competent OC, HC, GM, depending on the season.

    RW can go 17-25 for 180 and a TD with the best of Em, tell me how he'd do having to throw 35-40 times per game...
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he doesn't need to pass 35 times because he contributes about a 1000 yards rushing.....yeah I know, know big deal, not really your style, or maybe you just don't understand how to put it into the context of how to win a football game.
     
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  6. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Dude I already told ya, I'm not the one for the weak sauce. He averages about 650 yds rushing, 489-550 and 850 this year, but thanks for pulling 1000 outta your hind parts though.

    Again, how would we build an offense around him? We lack an elite RB and defense so he would HAVE to throw 35-40 times per game on occasion, to keep pace with the offenses we couldn't stop or defenses that shut down the run. RW has elite scrambles but RT outclasses him as a passer so it's kind of a wash in terms of overall production. Stop with the BS and let's talk some football.
     
    speed likes this.
  7. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    As to the article- Russell Wilson is undersized, but if Jeff Ireland didn't think that Wilson could throw the ball well, then he had no business scouting Quarterbacks at all. If you look at the college film Wilson's arm strength, accuracy, running ability are all excellent. His efficiency ratings were ludicrous and his decision making was fantastic. He was a dual threat QB who could rarely if ever be stopped. He was a standout. My failing was pegging him to drop too far because of his size- forget 6 feet, he's 5-10 5/8. Everything else was there.

    Ireland embarrassed and exposed himself if he in fact said that Wilson couldn't throw, and Jacksonville drafted a punter ahead of Wilson. Ouch. The Jets should have drafted him that year, and they passed on Matt Barkley when they had a chance to get him at a value price. If I recall correctly only one person steadfastly thought that despite his size Wilson was a top ten pick, and that was Boomer.
     
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  8. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Neither Tannehill nor Wilson's numbers vary as a function of what's going on around them. They don't play worse when their defenses or running games play worse, and they don't play better when their defenses or running games play better. They don't play worse when they throw the ball more, and they don't play better when they throw the ball less. So these variables you're proposing to account for why Wilson would perform differently in Miami aren't even correlated with either player's performance in their current situations. That makes your argument unsupported by the relevant objective information at best, and wrong at worst.
     
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  9. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Just being efficient means basically not having to do to much so yeah your both right. Russell wasn't very efficient at all in their past game anyway. What he does have to do to win, is scramble, scramble, scramble. Not many Rbs had more rushing yards than him.
     
  10. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    They signed Flynn well before the draft - and he did look great at GB the year before when Rogers was hurt.

    It's not, as you imply, that they had Wilson already.

    Several thought going into the draft that, but for his height, he was as good as any QB.
     
  11. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    The NFL is a disaster when it comes to drafting QBs. Look at some of the ones drafted in the 1st round. But, as a 2nd round choice, Wilson was projected there by many (I, and several others, were legitimately hoping - as one possibility - we would draft him in round 2-3).

    I do think Wilson is a better overall QB than Tannehill. Seattle has a great RB - but their OL was terrible in Wilson's first two years and their WRs are nothing special either.

    No doubt he would not be as good in Miami. But, he is also a very special talent who has great instincts and what amazes people is his mental ability to get through tough times. Even HOF QBs are amazed at his ability to shake off bad circumstances. He's got both tremendous instincts and is as mentally tough as any QB in the NFL.

    Of course, RT may turn out to be great - but he still has serious limitations that he has yet to overcome.

    Regardless, that shows Ireland is a superficial thinker who cannot see talent when it is there.
     
  12. speed

    speed Banned

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    LOL!!!

    Man, I love the haters, this is hysterical.

    Seattle is in the SB DESPITE Wilson, not because of him. He threw 4 horrible INT but was bailed out by his defense. If GB scores from the 1 yard line, this thread doesn't even exist. The running game and defense bailed a very mediocre QB that day. And he won't be so lucky vs. NE. I call a blowout. Pats win big. 3 INT by Wilson.

    Take off the blinders.
     
  13. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    I think Russell Wilson right now is clearly the better player over Tannehill, but I also think Wilson is closer to his ceiling than Tannehill is. In a couple of years they could very well be equals in terms of individual play (not accomplishments because there is no way Tannehill will win a Super Bowl in the next few years).
     
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  14. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    It's obvious because it stares you right in the face when you watch him play.

    Pocket presence? The ability to feel and avoid the rush? No comparison. Wilson had it as a rookie.

    Clutch play? He's proven himself here repeatedly.

    Deep accuracy? We don't even have to go there. Deep or not, Wilson makes 'wow' throws every time I watch him.

    Leadership? One of his strongest attributes coming out of college. Also lauded for his intelligence. Learned Wisconsin's system very quickly and became their leader in almost immediately.

    It doesn't matter who we'd have put around Wilson compared to Tannehill because he's simply the better player. It's not like he's some system quarterback. He'd thrive in any system. This "he isn't asked to throw 30 times a game" demerit is the same thing people hurled at Ben Roethlisberger early in his career when all the guy did was make plays and pull rabbits out of hats when needed.

    Watch the divisional playoff game at Atlanta Wilson's rookie year and tell me that kid isn't special. A rookie-record 385 yards passing, 60 rushing, 3 TDs. Down 20-0 in the second half, he leads them on four TD drives, taking the lead with under a minute left, only to lose on a last second FG.

    Wilson threw 36 times that game and was Seattle's leading rusher.

    Does anyone think Tannehill has that game in him now?

    - posted via Tapatalk -
     
  15. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Ireland was the prototypical example of the Peter Principle.He reached his level of incompetency when he moved on from being a ball boy.:wink2:
     
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  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just on the nose of it, there should be skepticism that this guy was interviewed in general. Much less that this exchange occurred.
     
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  17. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    You say some of the craziest stuff ever. What goes on around the QB doesn't affect their performance? lmao.
     
  18. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

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    RT shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as RW at this point. If you've actually watched them play over the last three years, it's not even a comparison. Don't give me pointless stats, give a QB who understands the game and leads an offense.
     
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  19. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Who the **** is Bret Bielema?

    I don't ever remember hearing anything about him...
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    when you acknowledge that 850 yards on top of his efficiency from the pocket, and his ability to extend a play is not comparable to anyone else and put into some proper context in terms of overall ability and effectiveness,then maybe we can find a common ground..but if you don't see what impact his skillset has then we simply cannot.


    How would we build an offense around Russell Wilson starting from 3 years ago? It's impossible to be definitive, but offensively, I think it's quite easy, just get him a bad *** running back and run the read option,cause that's how he's gettin it done this year..
     
  21. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Good post.

    Ive actually watched all of Wilsons's games and yeah the ATL game was insane. He's a terrific talent and an easy guy to root for. He makes eye popping plays that stick in your head. I like him a lot. Where I disagree with is that he's clearly superior to Tannehill, it's more accurate to say that Seattle is clearly superior to Miami.

    Wilson throws 4 picks and does virtually nothing good for 56 minutes in the NFCCG but his D and ST bail him out. Miami? We played GB too, lost, and most fans blame the HC for not passing on 3rd and 9. Lol.
     
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol, I know right, I guess folks forget that the guy had one of the highest passer ratings in college football history, and has simply transitioned the same game to the pros, he's playing the position differently than anyone else since roger staubach, and yet still different from him..I guess folks just are stuck that everything has to be done from the pocket.
     
  23. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Well if your position is that being asked to throw fewer passes enhances Wilson's performance, then it should be the case that when he throws fewer passes, he performs better, and when he throws more passes, he performs worse. That isn't the case, however, either for Wilson or for Tannehill. So, your belief is supported by nothing objective.

    What's really more "crazy" -- believing something that isn't supported by anything other your own personal perception, when it's controverted by the relevant objective data, or actually doing the exploration of the objective data in the matter, and basing one's belief on that? I'd say the former.
     
  24. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    I absolutely believe he has that game in him. He just threw for 400 yards and 4 TDs at around 75% completion in the 2nd to last game of last season against a top 10 passing defense. And he had around 50 rushing yards 4 weeks in a row at one point last season. Why wouldn't someone believe he has that in him?
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    member when some were mocking wilson all game against greenbay, puffin their chests out like they had been finally justified in their evaluation, mocking me in the process for telling you judge the totality of his play, member when he came back and scored on the read option then 3 perfect touch passes to win the game...member..lol
     
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  26. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I agree with Ireland on this one. He did absolutely the right thing. Don't often say that about the guy
     
  27. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    please he didnt win anything. special teams and defense won it. keep dreaming. if anything that game proved how mediocre he is and proved how much the defense and running game have to do with seattle's success and how little wilson has to do with it
     
  28. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    The reduction of the judgment, whether positive or negative, of Russell Wilson's ability as a QB in the NFL to the recent NFC Championship game is ridiculous.
     
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  29. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Yep, he did NOTHING....any QB could've made those throws to win the game. :pity:
     
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  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yeah for sure, it was just a coupe that had their glimmer of hope for 3 quarters, quite embarrassing for those coupe considering the shots they were taking at him and those who think he is a great qb, its actually worth a read how it went down, pure comedy..
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he has won and proven plenty to get them there, had a bad game but responded in the clutch..when you've got no real threats to throw the football to its hard to throw the football, example, Wilson loses 2 very good weapons in Golden tate and percy harvin, so what does he do, increases his rushes and yardage a considerable percentage to make up the difference..i.e do whatever it takes to win.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i still haven't gotten an answer from the new resident expert as to why wilson was facing cover 0..I guess either they don't get it, or they don't want to admit it.
     
  33. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    most qbs or at least 1/3 of them wouldnt have had to. they wouldve been sitting with a 14 point lead and running out the clock
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you do realize that this matchup has happened before...earlier in the year..wilson had a passer rating of 110 to aaron rogers 81..

    did you also know that aaron rogers had two picks and posted a 51 qbr in the overtime game..

    point is, I'm not going to take away ''best qb in football'' from aaron rogers because of a couple of poor performances..
     
  35. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    yeah. great qb. one read and then run. he's going to have a stellar career. the guy cant throw in the pocket, cant make read progressions and relies on 8 men in the box for most of his games. we saw what happened when the packers flooded the passing lanes. wilson had no clue. year three he still has the QB IQ of a rookie. He needs the pick plays that carroll draws up for him that leave his receivers wide open. there are probably twenty QBs who would be in the SB with the Seahawks right now if they were playing for them. Was Jim McMahon a great QB? Trent Dilfer? same teams same results. hopefully seattle bags another SB tmw and Wilson gets his second ring. cant wait to read the articles proclaiming better than marino when in realty he isnt better than even randall cunningham
     
  36. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    wilson isnt even in the top 10. i realize iits difficult to evaluate players on super successful teams like the seahawks. it seems that everyone is producing but you have to start at the core and work your way out. the offense is centered on the running game. even when the running game isnt working its because usually there are 8 men in the box. so when wilson throws to wide open receivers its not because the receivers are great or the qb is great its because the defense got caught out of position. if your defense is cheating run most qbs in the league could take advantage and so does wilson. doesnt make him great. the fact that he cant read defenses in year three (tannehill is far ahead of him) and has to do everything from breakdowns tells you by the time he is 28 and his quick twitch muscles go he will become a below average starter. my prediction is he will become a backup QB somewhere between 28 and 30 unless his accuracy improves and his ability to read defenses
     
  37. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Seattle leads the league in rushing, with more than a half-yard per carry more than the team with the next highest number in that area, against defenses with eight in the box? Amazing. That must be one hell of a running game.
     
  38. pmj

    pmj New Member

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    I'm of the opinion that Wilson is overrated as well, but you can't deny the results at the moment. He's a SB winner and his scrambling/playmaking seems to basically make up for any deficiencies. If he wins tomorrow, even if he does fall off after he gets a little older, who wouldn't take two SB wins in return for a short shelf life? Again, can't deny the results.
     
  39. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    With Sherman and Philbin coaching him to not improvise or run out of the pocket? I doubt it. Our defense would have forced him into a lot of bad positions where we would have been passing more as well. I don't think its really knocking Wilson to say that his numbers would have suffered. Aaron Rodgers numbers would have suffered here under the coaching staff/roster over the last 3 years.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The fact you say he threw four horrible interceptions in the game tells me you don't actually watch the football players you talk about. And thus I can throw away your opinion without the need for further comment.
     
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