It's not that he is the Godfather of the spot. Nor that he will always handle that position. Their were plenty of other positions that were important than improving the #2 WR position (which by the way wasn't addressed). The addition of Clay Gates doesn't mean Hartline sees less time and doesn't start. Does the addition of Matt Moore mean Chad Henne doesn't start? Did the drafting of Pat White mean that Chad Henne wasn't going to start? Nope. Another outside pass rusher was more important The interior of the OL was more important The running back situation was more important The depth to improve ST's was important (which by the way Gates will be a bigger contributor there, IMO) The depth at the TE position needed to improve Speed was a part of all of those things. Not just this warped sense of reality that Clyde Gates was brought in solely for the purpose to oust Brian Hartline, bring a vertical threat to the team, because Brian Hartline wasn't getting the job done. What's the word you love to use, compliment. Ya, he's a compliment (Clyde Gates) to this offense and Marshall, Bess & Hartline.
THe sad reality is, though, that even a 'track-meet' receiver who is all speed and no skill still affects defenses in our favor. When that dude is running past the CB deep the safety has no choice whatsoever but to go support the coverage. That's his assignment. Now, I would rather the WR actually be PRODUCTIVE and not just a decoy, but I have to admit that even a damned armless sprint champion would help us open our offense up consistently, every play. Meanwhile, Hartline (whose skills I like) doesn;t force the safety over on most plays. I'd say he beats his CB deep on only 3-4 plays per game. That's not affecting coverage consistently enough to help the offense as a whole. Yes, he gets open deep (through technique), but inconsistently. Now the DREAM WR is the guy with deep speed AND hands. But not sure Gates is that guy.
What we need, really, is an Alvin Harper (in his good year) type of #2WR. Then Hartline can be the #4WR like a Brandon Stokely. And he'd be a GREAT #4, imo. (I think Daboll's offense will have more spread and more 4WR sets than henning's, so Hartline would still be useful. he would absolutely DESTROY teams' #4CB!!!)
Just a little tidbit to throw in. On 20+ yard passes, Hartline caught 3 of 14 with 0 drops. Marshall caught 4 of 18 with 2 drops.
Banging on Hartline makes no sense to me. Is he fast? I'll bet he's faster than anyone on this board but we aren't in the NFL. But speed is not everything, he is faster than Jerry Rice ever was. So there again, speed is not everything. Hartline was no better or worse than any reciever on this team. Isn't Marshall a superstar and one of the best receivers in the league? He only had 3 TD's last year, so complaining about Hartline only having 1 is ridiculous on a team that NOBODY scored any TD's.
No, because there are hundreds of guys in the world that could run a 4.3, but could never get off the LOS. Not to mention there is more required than running in a straight line. The difference between a post thats run with good technique and bad technique makes up for whatever difference there is in straight-line, untouched speed. I don't really agree that Hartline doesn't do it consistently, but to each his own. I do agree that a dream WR would have all of the above. But there are very few that do have all of that, and the price tag of signing someone like DeSean Jackson would mean you are paying two WRs top-5 money. Unless of course that player is drafted, but the reality is the chances of that are slim.
Hartline isn't nonathletic. The guy put up combine numbers that were on par with Hines Ward. He was one of the best in his combine class in the cone drills. He ran track and did really well in the hurdles. I do not defend Hartline because he is one of my favorite players. I am looking at a wide receiver with talent who was able to put up good numbers in a poor offensive system and below average to poor quarterbacking.
AMEN! As I remember he and Ginn were the guys to beat in the HS Track scene in Ohio. Ginn was the fastest and Hartline was the 2nd. After Ginn graduated Hartline was the guy to beat for a year. At least that's what I remember from a couple of years back.
I don't think anyone is saying that Hartline isn't good. It's that Hartline, essentially, does what Marshall does. So, we have two receivers on the field, three if you count Bess, who aren't really a home run threat. Those guys arent going to turn 10 yard slants into 50 yard tds, like Santonio Holmes did for Sanchez multiple times last year. That's not their game. If we could get a guy who could do that, Hartline would definitely be struggling to keep his #2 spot, IMO.
I put production over speed, and Hartline has given that. He has also beaten some elite DBs for chunk yardage. Ya don't do that by mistake.
I'm pretty sure that Hartline is the fastest reciever we had last year. And I don't really view him as the same type as Marshall tbh. But many times last year he was behind the coverage and noone got him the ball. The Problem is the Qb and last years scheme more than the rest of the guys on the field.
And this is where stats are deceiving. Hartline isn't the threat that Holmes is. What kind of coverages was Holmes facing? Was it single coverage like Hartline usually had? I cant imagine you would actually not straight up trade Hartline for Holmes, if offered that trade.
That was one example. Speed can beat someone once in awhile, and it's an aberration...but good routes beating someone once in awhile is somehow different?
From what I recall, in a player interview with Hartline last year, it was a toss up for the phastest phin between him and Vonte.
That is one play out of hundreds. When you look at the big picture, Hartline clearly has proven he's more than capable. To illustrate this point, Ted Ginn in 2009 had 3 plays of 20+ for Miami. In 2010, Hartline had 10. 3 plays is a mistake, 10 plays really isn't. Especially when you consider that those 10 plays came on ~70 targets. Thats one play of 20+ yards every 7 times he was targeted.
Yes, Holmes did it against mainly man coverage. Hartline did it against mostly cover-2. Thats not really single coverage. There were plenty of times where there was a safety over top of Hartline. But, I do think Holmes is a better player than Hartline. Give me Santonio Holmes at Hartline's current salary and I'll take it every day of the week. But paying any WR that type of money when you're already paying Brandon Marshall a boatload of money would be a serious waste of resources. Unfortunately the salary cap prohibits teams from just signing every pro bowler available.
I'm not putting Hartline in the HOF. I'm just saying that, as a 2nd year WR, he played very well. I am only looking at his production for my team, and it was damn good. JMO
I like Hartline and think with Gates we have 4 really good wrs. Gates opens teh field and helps the other 3. they can compliment each other
I like Hartline. However, if I could replace one of our starters, it would be Hartline. Marshall is great, Bess is great in the slot. Hartline could defintitely be upgraded, is all I'm saying. I'm not saying it would be top on my list of needs...but I'm not going to act like Hartline is a player that other teams really plan for. If we put Hartline up for trade, we'd be getting guys like Benny Sapp offered back.
Well, the real problem isn't necessarily Hartline himself. The problem with our WR corps is that the three top guys are just about the same guy, with an edge in talent to Marshall.. Bess, Hartline and Marshall each have about the same speed. Each are adept at being more possession and underneath receivers. What would help us make Marshall the beast that he was in Denver is having some speed opposite him to clear out the middle of the field for him to do his thing, which is catching the ball over the middle and racking up the YACs.... I like Hartline, but he doesn't draw attention as a WR to other defenses...and at 4.52, it's unlikely that he will.
Bess is also one of the better route runners in the league, opposing defenders cant keep up w/ his violent and sudden cuts. He's not a big play threat and he never will be, but he creates terrific separation and he's a QB's dream in 3rd and short-medium situations. 4.8? That's pretty harsh.
If he averages 18 yards a catch, as he did for 7 games, I have to think he will get someone's attention.
I was a little off, he runs 4.7s. Bess is really slow. He creates separation with good route running.
I'm sorry GM. I didn't answer the questions because they were ridiculous questions. Because the fact I don't think Brian Hartline is going to shred this DB today means absolutely nothing in regards to his actual worth. When you think of the Miami Dolphins you think (now, anyways), Brandon Marshall, Cam Wake, Reggie Bush and maybe Jake Long (to the casual fan). So, of course you're not putting Brian Hartline up on the pedestal. So, again asking that question brings no merit to the actuality of how good/not good Brian Hartline is. Because someone doesn't know who Brian Hartline is means he isn't good? That's just...I dunno...insert not appropriate word in there. That's what it is.
Oh bullsh!t!!!. He ran a 4.6 at his pro day and a 4.64 at the combine. He hasn't lost .2 seconds since 2008.
Ya. That looked a little inflated to me also. It doesn't matter what he runs, because he isn't be asked to do those type of things. However, he's shown the occasional ability to make plays down the field and find those spots in the zone as he always does.
Well if Hartline said that, he is at least confident. No way is faster than Clemons, Carroll, or Marlon Moore.
I haven't gotten in to this thread debate much. It's been more Todd and GMJ. Both whom I generally agree with, along with what you say here. I will say one thing in his defense though. Henne's QB rating dropped a lot after Hartline got hurt. Could that have been the reason? Partially most likely. Also partially because Henne himself was playing on an injured knee and Marshall was playing hobbled with an injury, hamstring pull iirc.
