1. I agree about getting the calls in late, once you even saw beck getting upset with his hands. But maybe the headsets were down due to the rain?

2. They really could not set up a RB screen because Pitt was sending everyone and the RB had to block, and if you noticed, Chapman and Cobb wiffed and fell down often.

3. The leader is out (Zach) and Crowder is not shown he can be our MLB. Also worrell is never in the right spot. Losing our safties has killed us, that being said, the last few games they have played much better as a defense.

Beck has been making some good reads so far and not making mistakes. But sometimes you need to let it fling, which I think he will against the Jets.

 

These are two contradictory opinions. You hate Cameron, but you're impressed with Beck, who wouldn't even be here were it not for Cameron, who you want gone. Brilliant.

Furthermore, can we finally set the record straight on this team's lack of an OC? We searched for weeks to find an OC. We interviewed multiple candidates. They all turned down the job because Cameron wanted to retain playcalling duties, which makes total sense given that he's installing his system here.

Next year, look for Terry Shea to receive a promotion to OC, and Trent Green to be hired as the QB coach.

 

That's a little bit of an exaggeration. Not only did I not see it when I watched the game, but considering the amount of time it takes the QB to tell the players the play in the huddle, line up, and go through the extended amount of motion in this offense, it's impossible that happened with any noteworthy regularity.

Uh, who were we going to throw the inside screen to? Our top two RBs were hurt during the game, one was fresh back from being out of the league and the other was playing on an injured ankle. Has Patrick Cobbs shown you any affinity whatsoever in the passing game?

Cameron's playcalling is not an issue besides a couple situations. It's something that is going to fall under a "WE'RE 0-11 GODDAMNED IT'S WRONG" kind of thing. If the execution isnt there, it doesnt really matter what is called.

I've yet to see Cameron get any credit for the good and innovative things he's done, for example. I didnt see anyone notice, or pick up on how he was using an unbalanced line to throw off the Bills DL positioning and expose huge holes in their defense, for example. Who cares though, WE'RE 0-11 AND THIS SUCKS.

Which has nothing to do with Cam Cameron, btw. That's either Dom Capers, or more likely Channing Crowder. The players look like they are policing themselves because they do have some responsibility to shift and adjust the defense in different situations. It's Crowders responsibility with Zach out, and he's seemingly not handled it well.

 

Head coaches should be head coaches. You were an OC before. If I'm an ower, I'm wanting to hire a HC, not an OC or a DC. HC's pull the team together, not concentrate on a part.

I think Cam should concentrate on being a head coach.

 

NM mispost

 

Agree 100%. Cam wanted to install his system, if he didn't call the shots his first year, his staff wouldn't know how he wanted to run the offense. I agree with the Shea promotion and Green hiring. That's how I see it as well.

 

I'm not sure I agree, but, clearly, assistants need to change.

 

Why are we asking for this guy's head after 1 season? we are willing to give beck a pass on his rookie season, why not cam? People, this team is so f***ed up that it is going to take more than 1, maybe 2, to get this team fixed. And bringing in a new coach every other year isn't going to fix anything.

I too think that shea will be promoted. Cam is going to have his system installed and he will be able to step back from the OC position.

 

Wow your brilliant points swayed me.

Impatience will be the death of you, let it go, the stres will eat you alive.

Cam has made mistakes, he wasnt expected to? Wow he is the first in history to make mistakes? Good coaches dont? Pleas, the grass aint always greener.

 

Because people have no idea what's wrong with this football team. They just see a new head coach with a winless record and immediately want him out, without even caring if the new head coach is the reason why we have a winless record in the first place.

 

Lets face it you dont like Cam so all you see is the record and everything else is moot. And by firing Cam all our trowubles will disappear. LOL Guess what? WHy do you think Dick Satan left? Because he Loved the college game? please, he saw the writing on teh wall, realized he screwed some things up and knew he was gonna have to be stuck in a rebuilding process and his rep could take a hit so he fled. In other words what we are enduring was inevitable and gonna happen no matter who was coach.

But feel free to live in this teh grass is greener world.

 

Uh, that's kind of ironic you are saying this when your entire argument is that I apparently didnt watch the game or havent watched the game.

I'm not saying he didnt look frustrated. What you are attributing it to is ridiculous, however. You dont know it's because he got the play late, or he didnt understand the play, or he was having problems hearing it on the headset, or he had bad gas.

You are projecting your problems with Cameron on situations that are unreasonable to do so in.

Because we had no one to call it to in conditions where putting the offensive linemen in extended motion was pretty much useless? You by any chance notice that except for Alan Faneca on a couple plays, there was very little in the way on offensive linemen pulling in two offenses that use it extensively? They mentioned it on TV even how difficult it was for the OL to do much other but short area blocking.

You got some serious specific problems, or you just going to roll with the weak shots?

You did uh, notice the 150 yard total game from our backup RB, right?

No he's not. Which is completely irrelevant, but hey.

You mentioned the defensive players yelling at each other on the league. That's not an attitude issue, it's a communication issue. The MLB and Free safety generally have adjustments and calls they have to make. We're running with our #2 players at both positions. What do you think they were yelling at each other? "**** you"?

 

This is a terrible point bottom line.

Cameron IS NOT the GM. Did you forget Mueller?
Secondly, even if Cameron was the GM, picking good players and coaching are two completely different things. This poster stated he has a problem with the decisions he's making as a coach....... which I have firmly come to agree with.

Yes they turned him down, as you pointed out, because Cam refused to even consider letting anyone make calls WITHIN his system.

Isn't that the problem?

He can install his system and teach an OC what he expects out of him can he not. I mean if we can't expect Cam to have the abilities to coach up another coach as to what he expects then what on earth can we expect out of him working with players?

We had what many around NFL circles feel is one of the top young and up and coming offensive minds in the game right here on our roster in Garret and we let him walk. All we had to do was give him a "fancy name position upgrade" along with being OC and we could have kept him right here. Yet another big mistake this organization has made to add to the Mile long list of them in recent history.

 

It's a lot more than that.

If Finheaven ever gets back up you can go back through the history of posts and you'll never see me getting on any rookie players or our Head coaches their first year. I'm not a knee jerk fan.

The record in this scenario isn't the issue.
It's how this team is in constant dissaray and confusion on the field, the constant stupid penalties, the very questionable judgement calls Cam has made this season and some very Wannstedt like tendencies in his game planning and motivation techniques with the players that has me VERY worried about this guy.

If you want to believe everyone is simplifying this to "Cam must be fired because of the teams record" that's your choice, but it's not the case with anyone who is presenting some good arguments here IMO.

 

Cameron isn't the GM, true. But are you trying to suggest that Randy Mueller is responsible for picking Beck? That's far from true.

The poster said he has issues with Cameron as a whole, not just his coaching decisions. And his coaching decisions have been largely fine, given the situation this team is in. We're not 0-11 because of Cameron, as is being suggested. Given the way this team is playing, we'd be 0-11 with 1972 Don Shula.

Cameron refused to hand off playcalling duties in the first year of the implementation of a new system, which is entirely understandable. The OC candidates wanted to call plays immediately, which is also understandable, but there was nothing stopping Cameron from handing off playcalling duties in 2008 and beyond depending on the progress of the OC.

He can't teach an OC if they wanted to be given full responsibility immediately, which was the issue. Cameron wanted to teach the OC and then hand him full duties at a later date. The OC candidates wanted full responsibility immediately.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

Oh, come on. Letting Jason Garret go is the least of this team's concerns. The Dallas offense wasn't made with him: it was made with Tony Romo, Terrell Owens, and the rise of Marion Barber. Jason Garret is not the difference between a loss and a win on this team.

 

I honestly don't agree with any of this and I don't feel one point was dismissed with this reply.

Just one of those agree to disagree things comlpetely.

 

Good points all-around

I completely understand the logic behind thinking that a HC should have more than one year before he is fired. But shouldn't it depend on the individual and the situation? Should there be a universal law that you have to keep a coach at least 2 years? I don't think so. I believe that every situation is unique to itself. The Raiders fired Art Shell after a 2-14 year. Was that a bad decision?
This is a pivotal time for this team. I believe that we need someone with solid HC skills. Someone who knows how to manage all of the departments and all of the assistants, as well as the adult players. Someone who has great talent evaluating skills and who knows who the good scouts are. Someone who prepares his team. Is Cam that guy? Through 12 games and one offseason, I say no.
Look at his off-season. We paid Green, who was terrible coming off of the injury in KC, and then led the NFL in ints before he went down again. A whole lot of people that know less football then Cam has probably forgotten seemed to see that coming. Why didn't he? All the while we are still paying DC 5 million to play somewhere else (and not very well, I might add). Green couldn't even earn the position over Lemon. So why get him? He was handed the position.
While Joey Porter looks like he's starting to come around, there's no denying that he's an older player. If we were truly rebuilding, why bring him in? We could have spent the money elsewhere. Welker maybe?
Did he really think that we were a playoff team? If not, then why say anything? Is he so terrible at evaluating talent in the NFL that he thought this team could contend? Even win a game at this point?
His "fail-foward-fast" plan for the preseason. How did that work out for us? There's a reason why coaches start to implement game plans in the pre-season. The main reason is so your team doesn't start the season looking completely clueless, and having no identity as far as knowing what they do and don't do well.
The game and clock-management has been terrible. Why wouldn't someone at the very apex of football coaching not know NFL basics? Why would they make the same mistake twice or more?
Why would he say that the reason Beck isn't starting is because his backup RB and 2nd WR don't know their blocking assignments? 10 weeks into the year PLUS training camp and preseason, and they don't know their assignments?
Penalties are horrible. This team looks undisciplined from day one.
The line has improved, but that's Houk's job. I don't see an offensive guru in Cam. We haven't scored in 9 quarters on offense. Not even a field goal.

If someone is not a good fit as HC, then they aren't a good fit. All another year is going to get you is more of the same. If the season ends, and we look as lost as we do now, I think that Cam has to go.

 

You don't fire a coach off one year. Never.

Unless we're ok with the franchise being a joke. Lord knows, everyone
was wetting thier pants over a drug-addict savig us on MNF, which makes us a joke...So, I guess I don't even know now.

 

Art Shell and Cameron are 2 diff situations. Shell was a former coach of that team. And he had totally lost the players. That isnt happening here. The players are together, they believe and remain positive.

This team is young on offense Inexperience abounds and we arent destined to score a ton of points with an inexperience group no matter who coached this team.

Cam did have a say in Beck. In fact while it was a scout who saw him first, then Randy scouted him, it was Cam that interviewed him and worked him out and made the decision that Beck was teh kid he was most impressed with, then Randy got him. SO yes Cam did play a sign part in getting Beck.

It was Cam that moved Hadnot to guard and started Satele. He did play a part in getting Ginn who I believe has shown why we drafted him.

Cam isnt a great coach nor do I know if he will become one, I think he has shown some positive things, I think he has learned on the job and made some mistakes. I believe a foundation is being built and should be granted teh time to show the fruition of the plans. He should get 2008 and 09 if 08 shows real progression.

 

You're attributing things to him that are completely unreasonable to blame him for. That's tarring and feathering as far as I am concerned, considering how ridiculous it is.

Sure, the call could have been made, but it would have probabaly been the wrong call to make. The offensive linemen would have struggled to get into position, we didnt have anyone healthy to throw it too, and that's not even getting into your assertion that throwing the screen would have been the right thing to do.

How often do you see that? Have you seen anyone else do it? That was a quality coaching decision and a pretty good innovation. The Dolphins OL was sitting there with a DE outside of the shoulder of the "TE", the 3-technique just outside of the Tackle, and Vernon Carey looking straight down uncovered at a 230 pound linebacker.

Or you know, the guy who actually has the responsibility for the defense, or the substitute players we have doing the communications. Blaming it on Cameron is absolutely ridiculous.

 

I know it wont happen, but the best thing to happen is Cam moves to OC (keep his same salary) . . . keep Capers at DC, and bring in an experienced head coach to focus on the team.

What is more likely to happen is either Cameron would be fired (which would be horrible, but probably for the best) . . . . or Cam gets a OC that knows his system. Either way, 0-16 merits a coach change, I don't care if he loses the next 5 games by 3 points . . . u have to win atleast 1 game.

Cam really has blown wins this year, by himself. Ever since the Washington game with that time management issue . . . he consistently has made mistakes. I don't mind him learning on the job . . . but this is getting bad now.

This game Sunday is BY FAR, the biggest game for the Cam regime . . . Beck's home debut . . . he needs to win this one, or it will get ugly.

 

I totally respect that POV, I just disagree. I don't see one reason why Cam should be given another year. Now, I might change my mind after the next 5 games, but as of now he has only done things that will get a HC fired, and not enough of what keeps a coach around.
I like Beck, but what if Quinn turns out to be better (I didn't want Quinn, btw), then what does the draft turn into? What about all of the players he chose to let go or not re-sign? How id he such a great offensive-mind when we are averaging the same points as last year?
Are we a better team than when he took over?

 

I agree with everything you said except the welker comment. we got a daym good C in the process. welker is thriving in NE due to the supporting cast of Moss & Stallsworth(sp). i highly doubt it he would have the same #s if he were still here. Deion made this comment on NFL networks that same night after the Eagles/NE game.

There were coaches that were fired after their 1st year as HC. As much as I am against firing a coach after his 1st year, Cam doesnt seem like he has improved on anything and continues to make the same mistakes over and over again. You would figure a NFL HC would learn from his mistakes after 11 games but with Cam it doesn't seem like that. It doesnt seem like he has a gameplan.

I know some coaches like to run scripted plays for the 1st or 2nd series to test out the defense and whatnot. I dont see Cam doing this, if he has then I guess I must of missed it.

 

Yo Fins4. Good post. I was referring to Welker as an example of a player that we "couldn't afford", but we "can afford" a defensive player (at the time, our defense was coming off of last season ranked #4). It just didn't seem like the sort of move that a "rebuilding" team makes, that's all. Which brings into play the question: Is Cam really so poor at judging talent that he REALLY thought we were a playoff team, and brought in Green and Porter to get us closer? Or did he just say that we were a playoff team to make Wayne and the fans happy, but really knew we were rebuilding. And if that was the case, why bring in Green and Porter at all?
I love that we got Satale with the Welker deal. No way Wes would do here what he's doing in NE, but he was one of our best young offensive players. How long do we keep giving away good young players?
Was there a way we could have gotten Satale AND Welker?

 

Maybe . . . it would have been in the third round at pick 71 (the Lorenzo Booker pick) . . . that would have been the only way. And he may have slipped that far (Satele was the 60th pick), who knows. But I also will take Satele over Welker . . . Welker is great, but Satele would/is MUCH more valuable to us.

 

True that, Dawg. We all know firsthand how hard it is to get a good lineman, much less a center.

 

thanks. sorry i misunderstood you but i get it now.

Based on Green's production here, it was a bad move for us to trade for him, but if he stays here and ends up being a QB coach or gets some type of coaching job then maybe it wasnt a bad decision to get him here after all. what i dont agree was how Cam basically handled Green the job from the get go. Kinda reminds me of Wanny handling over the reigns to JF back in the days.

Porter said that he though he was being brought in so JT can get doubled teamed less. Peezy as everyone can tell is being played out of position. Capers isnt doing a good job at disguising our weakness as Saban did & he isnt utilizing our players strength.

I am not sure I would say Cam is poor at judging talent, i believe he is poor at when to play a guy. he tends to wait until all else fails or an injury then play the guy instead of breaking him in slowly. i understand some teams take a while before they start giving playing time to their draft picks but those teams arent 0 - 11 as us.