1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Can you Fn believe that c*ap

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finatik, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Marino with Belichick may have been the greatest. But Marino was the greatest passer of all time for a few years. But he was severely lacking as a QB.
     
  2. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Landry and Jason Taylor hates the Dolphins.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  3. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Hell, Moore had a higher passer rating. But there are gonna be "reasons" this isn't the same.
     
    dolphin25 and Fin-O like this.
  4. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,362
    20,989
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Cassell and Garop and Jacoby played more than 3 games.
     
  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    The claim is always Brady is "GOAT" because of the wins. Yet, we are all basically in agreement that the Patriots win without him. So, if he's great cause of the wins, yet they win without him, why are we crediting Brady with the wins?

    The Patriots, despite cheating, are the greatest team of the last 20 years. Brady is a part of that, so he deserves to be called great. But, I question how great her is. I don't think he's THE GREATEST of all time, though.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  6. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,362
    20,989
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    You can be great and expendable.

    If I thought Brady was trash or not a great QB I'd claim that ANY QB could do what he's done. The fact that I said 12 or so, out of the hundreds of NFL starters over the years, is a compliment. I realize that to some, mainly those who want to have Brady's babies, it may not seem that way, but it is.
     
    resnor likes this.
  7. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

    2,553
    1,793
    113
    Mar 14, 2015
    Because your comparison is completely dishonest.

    You're attempting to extrapolate a combined 20 games they played with Cassell (16), Garapolo (3), and Brisett (1) to the results with Tom Brady ....... who has started 235 regular season games along with 34 in the playoffs. A man who has led his team to Super Bowl victories, MVPs, and numerous statistical records. It's classic putting the cart before the horse.

    It's clear there is a synergistic relationship to Brady and that team.
     
    jdang307 and dolphin25 like this.
  8. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,362
    20,989
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Hello Matt Moore and his 3 games.


    The irony of this post flew out of the screen and took a giant dump on my keyboard.

    I'll send you the bill, Rock.
     
    resnor likes this.
  9. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

    2,553
    1,793
    113
    Mar 14, 2015
    That's not irony ****ting on your keyboard - it's your memory. :tongue2:

    I wasn't the one on here arguing for MM8 to start after 3 games.Regardless, you're talking 3 Moore games vs 13 Tannehill games not 20 vs. nearly 300 collectively. Tannehill is no master of Gase's offense in a way that Tom Brady is in NE.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
    dolphin25 likes this.
  10. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,362
    20,989
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    No, you were the one whining that he's not our starter because he never got a chance to compete with RT.
     
  11. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

    4,052
    2,347
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Simply Put take Brady put him in Cleveland and they instantly win the Superbowl right? If not he's not the BEST QB ever. Hes the best QB in New England's System however. Sure everyone has a system of course but not all QB's fit a particular system. Brady wouldn't be the same on another team. Marino, Brees, would have. I don't think Russell Wilson would be good in another system as well.

    Brady is a GREAT QB im not taking that away. He made the throws, he made the plays when it counted. He's just not the GOAT people are so short sighted.
     
    resnor and danmarino like this.
  12. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

    2,553
    1,793
    113
    Mar 14, 2015
    In 2011 bud.

    I was happy for the guy getting a chance to start some games because of that cockamamie 3-way QB competition they forced him to battle in that year - but it was no projection of him needing to start from here on out.
     
  13. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,362
    20,989
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    I don't believe you.
     
  14. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

    4,052
    2,347
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    If were going by wins than it's Bart Starr easily for me. He and the Packers won 5 championships in 7 years and are the only NFL team to win 3 championships in a row when men were men and didn't consider pass interference as a scripted play in every game.

    To many stupid rules anymore back in the day you lined up and fought for the win. You were helped along by refs, tv ratings, or financial reasons.
     
    resnor likes this.
  15. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

    2,553
    1,793
    113
    Mar 14, 2015
    Immaterial.
     
  16. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,362
    20,989
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Very relevant...
     
  17. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    Instantly in Cleveland. No. There's not enough surrounding talent, and that IS a factor. Would he instantly, and dramatically improve that team? Absolutely. There's no question about it. It's really a silly argument.

    Brady would be the same on another team. IF that team is going to run a similar system. If they said.. OK Tammy, Welcome to Cleveland. We're going to have you run the read option for us (and this may be something the Browns would do lol) then guess what, he's likely going to fail miserably. That's not his skill set. So, you'd build and offense with him that plays to his strengths, and there are many. Many more than that that NE offense is today, and as I said earlier, it's far different than it was in the past when he's excelled and won Super Bowls. Now, I know you're going to think I'm proving your point for you about the system, but... I'm not, because you're missing the point. I think, it seems like you think he's only good at throwing these short passes allowing the WR's to gain yards post catch. He's far more talented than that. He can sling that ball anywhere, make any throw. That offense was dramatically different when he first arrived as the starter taking over for Bledsoe. The years with Moss, they were much more vertical. So lets stop pretending he's only good at this present "system" that is the Pats offense.

    Drew Brees is an interesting case to bring up. Look at his time in SD. Not very impressive. Nobody really considered him "elite".

    SD years(averaged, not including the one game he played in 2001): 62 comp %, 3031 yards, 19.75 TD, 13.25 INT
    NO Years (Averaged again): 67.8 comp %, 4888 yards, 35 TD, 15 Int

    Now, if Drew Brees is this QB that should perform well in any "system" or environment as you've identified him. Why have his numbers been so dramatically better working with Sean Payton and his system in NO? If he's this top, non system QB, he should magically be able to perform just as well anywhere, right? Clearly that's not the case.

    Bottom line is that the good QB's, the best of the best, typically are made by a system that maximizes the talent they possess and use it the best. They become masters of that system when they're on the same page with that coach. Working within that, gives them the ability to succeed anywhere because they've learned to play the position, read the defense, make the throws. They just have that ability. Now, if you're going to try and make him a read option guy, he's going to fail. So would Marino, Brees, Rodgers etc, etc. That's pretty obvious.

    Also, we're never going to see what Brady can do elsewhere, because he's not going anywhere else. Good players will find ways to succeed anywhere. There's no indication that's not Tom Brady. Again, I hate you all for making me justify this for the guy, because I don't like the guy, but if you're realistically looking at this... he's talented enough to play anywhere. He can make every throw, he's 39 years old now, still makes every throw with ease, still has velocity that doesn't look like it's dropped off, he's accurate underneath, he's good downfield, and he's worked that offense in all of his different iterations over the years based on the talent they've had. Sure, if he's pressured up the middle he struggles, but what QB doesn't that isn't exactly a mobile QB? It's just... crazy talk at this point to say he wouldn't be good outside of New England IMO.

    I'm curious as to what the reason is why he wouldn't succeed elsewhere? Something more than... because he's a system guy please and thank you.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  18. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,362
    20,989
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    First, great post. Truly. I just don't agree. lol...And I'll tell you why.

    Cheating...and Luck.

    If Brady had been drafted by any other team in the NFL no one would know his name. Cleveland took QB Spergon Wynn 16 picks earlier than Brady. Imagine if Brady had been drafted by Cleveland.---Luck

    One of the worst calls I've ever seen in the NFL, "Tuck Rule", saved the Patriots from a game-losing fumble by Brady, and helped set up a game-tying kick in, up to that points, the biggest game of Brady’s life.---Luck

    Adam V. nailed a 45-yard kick against the Raiders in a snowstorm, which to this day is probably the best field goal I’ve ever seen in real time. (This years 55 yarder against the Bills is up there too) He also added the game-winning field goal in overtime, plus the Super Bowl–winning 48-yard field goal against the Rams a few weeks later. Two seasons later, Vinatieri helped save the Patriots in a divisional game against the Titans with a game-winning 46-yard field goal while the temperature was in single digits. Winning all of these games helped create the Brady is a winner diatribe.---Luck

    During Brady's first Super Bowl run he was knocked out of the second game in the playoffs during the second quarter. Drew Bledsoe came in and the Pats won.---Luck



    In Brady’s second Super Bowl, the Panthers tied it up with less than two minutes to play. Then Carolina kicked it out of bounds to set up the Patriots on their own 40-yard line for a game-winning drive. The Pats moved the ball something like 30-35 yards for, you guessed it, another game saving FG by Adam V.----Luck



    During this entire time, the Pats were cheating.


    Remember when the Ravens Lee Evans dropped that game-winning touchdown in 2012? That would have sent the Ravens to the Super Bowl. Instead, the drop set up a game-tying field goal attempt that the Ravens missed.---Luck



    In Super Bowl 49, if not for an undrafted cornerback making an incredible play, after one of the best coaching staffs in football decided not to use the best running back in the league, there’s no way people would have been declaring Tom Brady the greatest quarterback of all time after that game.

    In this last Super Bowl. Again, if the Falcons coaches called 3 running plays in a row, the Falcons, with one of the leagues best FG kickers, would have attempted a ~35 yard FG. If made, they would have taken an 11 point lead with about 4 minutes left to play in the game. Instead, they attempt 3 passes which resulted in Matt Ryan getting sacked twice which knocked them out of FG range and forced them to punt the ball. Now, the Pats have a short field and 3 minutes to tie. -----Luck
     
    brandon27 and resnor like this.
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Brady can make all the throws? He throws a great fade route. The "system" he's running is the same as it's always been. I remember arguing on a Madden site years and years ago, and guys were arguing way back then that Brady only threw short balls and screens. Yes, he was more vertical when he had possibly THE BEST RECEIVER to ever play the game.

    Bottom line, we know what the Patriots win percentage is without Brady, and we know what their win percentage is when Brady plays badly. We literally need no other information to determine if Brady is more responsible for wins than the system is.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  20. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,362
    20,989
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Yeah, he really can't make, and doesn't even attempt, "all the throws".
     
    resnor likes this.
  21. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    Fair enough. We can agree to disagree on it then. I'd rather not get into the cheating aspect of this. It's a glaring issue, I agree, it's also not one that can be overlooked. I don't think we really know the extent of what was going on though, or what info they really had. Neutral sight games also eliminate in my mind the thought that they are manipulating radio frequencies, extending the duration of the communication to the QB's helmet, etc, etc. I know it's an issue, I hate that it is for the sake of the game. To me though, it still doesn't change his ability as a football player, and passer of the football. Deflate gate was... a bit blown out of proportion. Again, I don't like it... I don't think it was a huge deal. My understanding of that one was the punishment was more based on him not co-operating with the NFL investigation and destroying the phone. I've heard enough QB's and former QB's say it's not a big deal. either because it isn't a big deal, or because they were likely doing it too one way or another based on their preference on the feel for the ball in their hand. It still though, to me doesn't change his ability to play the position. He's one of the best at that because he can make every throw, he's a great decision maker, etc, etc. we don't need to get into it all, I might puke. :lol:

    Yeah, I agree with you on the luck part, for sure. Sometimes though, there's just chemistry there between players and coaches. I think that's of the utmost importance as well when talking about the QB/HC relationship. Sometimes it just clicks. They get each other, and it leads to improvement, and clear communication in what they're able to do from an offensive standpoint. The fact they were able to make it work, and keep improving and perfecting it plays a huge role in this. The stability of that organization does as well. That's what nurtures the growth in players. Why do you think it was so important for Gase to get his hands on Tannehill as quickly as possible, get in his head, back him in every way possible in public? He needs that relationship. He's got to find what makes him tick, what he can do with him to make our offense tick.

    You can list those "lucky" things that happened in those various playoff games, but you've got to remember, there's how many games before that one particular game that got them there? It's like saying it's on the QB, but wait, other aspects of this team got them to certain heights as well, so now it's not all on the QB. Those are just the typical breaks in a football game, and season IMO.

    I'm just simply referring to his ability to play the position. Even with the outside cheating noise and various scandals, "lucky breaks", etc, etc, that just does nothing to say he can't play the position. He's clearly go the skills and talent to do that, and do it at a level to be considered in the conversation for being the greatest, it's a tarnished reputation for sure, but to me, the skill is there far beyond a system. The system fostered that growth, and now by system I'm not just referring to their offensive playbook and schemes, I'm talking top to bottom of the organization being included. That's what helps some players be greater than they may be destined for originally.

    We could go back and forth all day, I'm sure. I don't think we're going to ever fully agree, and that's cool too man. :up:
     
    danmarino and resnor like this.
  22. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    If that's what you really want to believe, that's fine. I just strongly question your ability to evaluate the QB position then. There's a lot of excuses there. To say the guy can't make throws beyond short crossing rounds and screens, and dump off's to backs is just... well, it's ridiculous. It's the bread and butter of the offense right now, sure, but I think you should go back and look, he's always been a guy who can throw the ball well, accurately, and with anticipation all over the field. Just because they have quick, shifty guys that get open and create separation and yardage after a catch right now, doesn't mean the guy is incapable of anything else.

    Again, I hate that we're having this discussion, because I don't want to give the guy credit, I think he's a smug arrogant prick who's been involved in, and his team has been involved in enough to tarnish his reputation, but you really can't honestly sit here and say the guy is only successful because of their offense. It's... it's ridiculous.
     
    Rock Sexton likes this.
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I just don't agree, Brandon. I believe Brady is great, IN THE SYSTEM, he's in. That being a system that depends on quick twitch receivers catching short passes and screens, and turning then into 15 yard gains. Yes, he's great at that. He throws a great fade route, so that helps immensely when defenses cheat up because they're getting decimated on short passes.

    I just don't see Brady doing things that other QBs can't do. But, he's done it for almost two decades, and his team has won a ton, so I think he's deserving of the HoF, but, I don't see a guy on the field who's the greatest of all time. Guys like Marino, Rodgers, S Young, Elway, Favre would have been successful, statistically, anywhere. Winning is a team effort, see Rivers from 2015. Brady gets called the "GOAT" not because he's a dominant QB, but because the team he plays on has been dominant.

    I've said it before, Marino might throw for 10k yards in a season if he played today. You just can't compare eras. Hell, I don't think you can even really claim Brady to be the greatest of this era, how can he be the greatest of all time?
     
    brandon27 likes this.
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I didn't say he can't make any throws other than short and screens. If you're arguing, though, that he can make all the throws like a Rodgers or Marino, though, you're wrong.
     
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Not to mention, the guy wasn't when all that great in college. I mean, if he could make all the throws, and was a cerebral QB, he wouldn't have been a 6th round pick. Now, has Brady gotten better over the years? Yes. But, to say he's the "GOAT" is what I have a problem with.
     
  26. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

    2,553
    1,793
    113
    Mar 14, 2015
    It's called "development" Res. These QB's don't pop out of the college ranks ready to be SB winners.
     
  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    What qb can be out in Cle and win the Super Bowl? Tell us, who is the best then? Dan couldn't win i.e. a HOF coach.

    So if that is your reason Brady is not the best, who would win the SB with that team in Cle?
     
  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    If you take the current Browns team, and could put any QB, in their prime, on that team, you'd pick Brady?

    No way would I want Brady.
     
  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    I don't think the QB you'd want to improve Cleveland's record the most is the QB you'd necessarily want to make a good team great.

    I'd definitely pick Marino > Brady if you want a QB to improve Cleveland the most, but I'm skeptical Marino would have had MORE than 5 SB wins with the same NE team Brady has been on. Maybe he'd have just as much or maybe not, but more??

    Thing is.. "Marino = system" as Walsh said can actually be detrimental to a team that's so well oiled as NE.
     
  30. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    Oh, am I? Then please, enlighten me as to which throws Tom Brady can't make on a football field? Again, please keep in mind just because that specific throw isn't a regular part of the offense at this point in time, doesn't mean he cant do it. So, I'd love to hear it.

    Was Tony Romo great in college? Pretty sure he was undrafted. That's just one.. Kurt Warner is another who was undrafted and won a SB. There's many others drafted late that have been successful as well. Believe it or not man, players progress when exposed to good coaching, in a good surrounding environment with other capable players.

    Also, maybe take a look back at his time in Michigan. He was burried on the depth chart as Brian Griese was entrenched there as the starter his first two years. Brady then started a season, and Drew Henson and him battled his second season back and forth as Lloyd Carr couldn't make a decision on a starter, and both did well. Tom Brady's record as Michigan's QB... 20-5. Several big victories, Several comeback wins as well when he wasn't even playing the full game. Are we done here yet? It was his combine performance that killed him, and probably not being the best athlete either. His college numbers arent mind blowing due to his limited time, and Carr and Michigan's fixation with Drew Henson at the time too. Sats don't always tell the story.

    Bingo. Heck, Andrew Luck should have won a, or multiple SB by now if you believed what people told you when he came out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
    Rock Sexton likes this.
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Brandon, you're arguing, then, that Brady can make every throw, as well as Marino or Rodgers?

    Come on, man. He doesn't have the arm strength to throw some of those as well as a Marino or Rodgers.

    I'm not saying there's a specific throw he can't throw. I'm saying, he can't throw let's say a 20 yard out as well as those guys.

    I don't know why people are jumping on me for saying he wasn't great when he came out. I SAID he's gotten better since being in the league.

    But he's not the best QB to ever play the game. I'm also adamant that I think it's silly trying to pick one, as the eras are all too different, even worth trying to adjust stats. It's as useless as arguing baseball greatest ever.
     
  32. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    No. The question was, if you take Brady, and put him in Cle, would they win the Superbowl? If the answer is "No" then that is proof he's not the greatest.

    And I say to that, that's a silly litmus test for the greatest. No QB in the history of the NFL would be inserted into this current Browns team and win the SB.
     
    Rock Sexton likes this.
  33. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    I wouldn't even pick Marino. Maybe Michael Vick or Cam Newton.
     
  34. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    No. I've never once said anything about Marino, or Rodgers, or anyone other than Tom Brady. I've never compared him to anyone, at any point in time today. I'm not sure where you're going, or trying to take this. Im specifically talking about one player, and his abilities.

    I didn't ask, or every mention him against anyone. That's not what this is about. My point is that Tom Brady can make all the throws in the NFL. You're saying he cant. I'm asking you what throws he specifically can't make. I'm not sure why you're now making this about him versus other players.

    Sure, you said he's gotten better. I dont think I accused you of saying otherwise Res. You said he wasn't all that great in college, but he was at Michigan at a time when they had a boatload of QB talent in the program. That was the only point I was getting at. It's easy to say that, but I recall those years as a Michigan fan. I was just clarifying that for you. Just because he didn't tear it up in college either, isn't a reflection of talent. Especially considering how guys grow and progress and develop, especially when they feel they've been held back by other guys on the depth chart. I obviously can't say for sure, but that's got to be more than enough motivation for a guy once he gets his NFL shot to work harder than he ever has because you just don't want to be fighting for a spot anymore. It prompts guys to work harder to be the best they can be. I think he even brought on a sports psychologist when at Michigan as well to stop from getting discouraged. There was alot going on there at the time. Hell, look at that combine pic of Brady shirtless, he clearly doesn't look like an NFL ready athlete. :lol: He had raw ability though, and as the story goes the Pats did like his skillset, despite his lack of stats, and combine numbers, and was the best player apparently on their board in the 5th that year, the rest is history I suppose. The good, and the bad.

    I've also never once said today, or yesterday for that matter that he's the best to play the game. That's not the point I'm arguing. I'm more concerned with addressing those folks who want to give him no respect at all saying it's all "system" driven, whatever that means as Fin-D and I briefly discussed. I have an issue with people saying though all he can do is dink and dunk, because that's not true at all. Do they do alot of that in the offense, sure. So do we. That doesn't mean he's not capable, and he's shown over the years that he's more than capable working outside that box. I get that we hate the guy because he usually is capable of embarassing us sometimes twice a year and that sucks, but to ignore the ability and talent because of that is... well, it's just silly IMO. That's what I'm getting at here. Maybe just a misunderstanding/miscommunication here Res. It's all good bro.

    I do agree with you 110% though that it's impossible to pick just one QB to say he's the best of all time. The game has changed quite dramatically over the years. You almost have to break it down by decade. If I had to pick just one... I'd lean towards Peyton Manning to be honest. Not just for his physical ability, talent and skills, but the mental aspect of his game I'm not sure has ever been seen like that before, and I doubt it ever will again. The guy was a walking playbook and offensive scheme in his own right. He did it all right there on the field. Call the play, change the play, execute the play. It was incredible to watch him in his prime. Physically though, he wasn't as gifted as some other guys, but he made up for that with smarts and execution.

    Anyways... :lol: I've talked about this douche today far more than I've ever wanted to. Damnit. :lol:
     
    resnor and danmarino like this.
  35. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    I assume you're basing that decision based on the fact that the game has shifted towards more emphasis on mobile/running QB types?
     
  36. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    It's because the Browns are so bankrupt at talent they need someone to take the game over with their legs and feet. Both players have been close to the Super Bowl and I'm not sure those teams had a lot of talent.
     
    brandon27 likes this.
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    To me, Manning was too careless with the football. He threw a lot of INTs. You've got Rodgers and Brady with career INT % in the 1s and he's at 2.7.
     
    brandon27 likes this.
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    The Browns should hire the genius that is Belichick, that will turn them around.....oh wait......
     
    danmarino likes this.
  39. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

    2,553
    1,793
    113
    Mar 14, 2015
    ...... because it's impossible to become a better coach after your first failed coaching stint.

    Makes complete sense.
     
  40. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,696
    3,743
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    If the physical act f throwing the ball is what determines a great QB then Jeff George is the GOAT.

    Dan Marino had him beat by decision making processig. I.e. quick trigger. Joe Montana had him beat whenit came to making good decisions. Graham Otto has him beat in leadership. Johnny Unitas has him beat on coolness under pressure. Cam Newton has him beat in the running game.
    But if you're going to say the ability to make the throws is what's important then I'll take Jeff George.
    I'll say the ability to make all,the throws is a second or third tier consideration. If your arm strength passes the minimum threshhold then its your decision making/leadership that's the biggest driver of success. Compare John Beck (rocket arm) and Chad Pennington. (Noodle arm).
     

Share This Page