Didn't see this already posted, interesting quotes from Pete Caroll on Patrick Turner. http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/11945/carroll-big-fan-of-fins-mystery-receiver If he "took over" in year 3... I'd be ok with that... Not saying it'll happen, but hey, it's good to have hope right?
I will not give up on him, Iam one of the few that was good with the pick when it happened based on what I saw on tape, and in person, i do know that he was an introvert at USC, so maybe until he feels comfortable, we will not see all that god given ability... This kid can play football...my eyes tell me not to give up on the player.
I mentioned that a week or two ago. I would do it for a 4th and maybe even a 5th. I didn't see a guy at USC who took over. I saw a guy who struggled with separation.
Saw this on Tim Graham's blog but decided against starting a thread because: "The Carrol should trade for him" Would come up, to the exclusion of what Pete Carrol had to say about Pat Turner.
And this is the disconnect that fans and pros have. Fans want instant gratifaction. Pros understand you have to have a reasonable time frame
common knowledge: 1) takes 2 to 3 years for a WR to develop in the NFL 2) the guy has size, hands & talent patience is in order, should begin to come into his own in 2010
sorry, but most rookie WRs dont go the whole year without seeing the field. and to make things even worse, he couldnt even see the field on a team that is desperate for WRs. even Brandon London got playing time as a 5th WR on our team in 08. Turner must suck really bad to not even get on the active roster.
No point in trading him now to Carroll. At the very least let him compete this offseason, if he's in the mix, give him some playing time. Get his value up a little before trading him.
As I said, I mentioned the possibility of trading Turner to Carrol a week or two ago. What people are missing about the 3 years for a WR to develop is that most everyone that succeeds does flash in their first year unless they're injured. I think people are hopeful that Turner will develop based only on time and a size/speed ratio. If that's all you needed then WRs wouldn't bust + 80% of the time.
Vincent Jackson is a great example. He had 3 receptions his first year - and never broke 700 yards until his FOURTH season. Yet anyone on this board would take him in a heartbeat. Miles Austin is another. We love calling these guys busts, but the truth is, these project WRs take awhile to develop. Three years isn't a magic number - in fact, Vincent Jackson and Miles Austin both didn't do ANYTHING until their 4th year. We've given Pat Turner all of one year - in which we had huge playoff hopes and also switched QB's mid-season. The Bess', Hartlines and Cams of the world can come in and be great immediately because what makes them great is their technical detail and understanding of the position. Sometimes these high-ceiling guys have to LEARN the position before taking over. Not saying I have much, if any, faith in Turner - but lets not write the guy off, yet.
I took it to mean more that he is approaching a draft without knowing what he has in Pat turner, so 'should' have gotten him on the field more. For assessment. Not because he was the best player who could have started. If Pat Turner gave us a better chance of winning, he'd have played. There are other reasons you need to play young guys someimes. This is one of them. Sparano doesn;t have all the info he needs to know whether we should draft another receiver or if Turner is still a good option to develop so we bypass drafting another high-mid round guy. If he'd played Tuerner, even though Turner had NOT practiced wellenough to earn it, at least Tony would now be able to say either "Yes, Pat Turner will be good. We don;t need to get another mid round guy at WR." or say "We better get another WR, because Truner probably won't pan out." Instead we have no idea either way and thus can;t make a good personnel decision. We have to guess.
IIRC Jackson was also injured a lot his first year. He was also behind a better WR corp than Turner is now. Austin was an UDFA, so those guys usually need to a very fair-minded coaching staff and talent. Here we can look at Bess and believe that if you show something at WR you'd get a shot. It seems more likely that Turner didn't show much of anything. I think in Turner we have a guy who struggled to get separation in college and somehow we expect him to not struggle to get separation in the pros. Sometimes it just makes more sense to move on from a poor pick. If Carrol was interested I'd trade Turner in a heartbeat.
Keenan McCardell and Eric Parker were the top two WR for SD that year - neither was over 1,000 yds. I have very little faith in Turner - but I also think there are enough instances of WR not making a jump for 3-4 years that this over-analyzing of the position is unnecessary.
There's a huge difference between taking 3 years and playing and seeing potential in a player, and another in not seeing the field at all. I don't have hope for him at all..
I really like Greg Camarillo's game, imho he is a 90 catch/1,000 yd player. As for P Turner, give the man a chance folks. I'm all for holding players accountable, when the coach refuses to play you, there is nothing you can do but work harder and try and make something happen.
He basically has one more training camp to make any impact. He still has some impressive gifts related to his quickness at his size that will help him. There's no question he should be a red zone threat based on his ability to run a slant and grab a ball out of the air.
And both were better than anything Miami has now. Analyzing positions is what fans and teams do. All I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if other WRs have taken time to develop. What matters is what Turner has shown. The vast majority of people who are preaching patience are basing it on nothing more than his speed/size ratio. I find that alone is not worth patience.
I don't get why we would move him. You spend a third rounder on him and then want to get rid of him? Doesn't make a lot of sense, IMO, especially when the guy has potential, even if he did struggle last year. Not everyone comes out of the gate ready for the next level and you know that bro. FWIW, I saw him create separation when playing horizontally and running come back routes. The issues with him were getting open down field. I still can't figure out why this team doesn't use more slants and square in's. That's his game. If you want to help get him going, you do things that play to his comfort level. The same thing goes for Ted Ginn. I realize some aren't confident in him going across the middle or even stepping in front of a safety but I think you have to give him the chance to work in space.
Regarding Carroll, I wouldn't take anything he says with more than a grain of salt. I think he's very close to his players and will back them up often. I recall reading about how Carroll went to the Senior Bowl to watch Taylor Mays play. Now, in my opinion, Mays didn't look so comfortable in his backpedal and he struggled opening his hips, but my opinion is nowhere near the level of many others. Carroll was at the practices (and game) with his fellow Scouts and they were talking about how poor he looked. Carroll was trying his best to sell them on Mays and saying he had all these tools to be a very good safety. I honestly don't see it and the Scouts apparently didn't either but Carroll did his best to try and show them.
IMO we reached for him in the draft. I don't think he was worth more than a 5th when we took him in the third. And I don't see much potential. I don't think he has the suddenness out of breaks to create separation at this level. In college I only saw him get separation horizontally against poor CBs.
I won't disagree that we reached. I think they may have done it because of the run on wide receivers going on at the time. I think he's got potential. To each their own. It still makes no sense to move him right now IMO.
I think Turner has a lot of potential too. He was great at USC on those slants and squares you mentioned. He really was able to work the middle of the field.
You have to keep in mind, there's a disparity between what Sparano says and where the truth lies. Sometimes the distance between the two is negligible. Other times it's a gaping chasm. Anyway, what Sparano meant was that he should have seen if Turner looked different in a real game than he did in practice. The answer is unlikely to be "yes," especially if Turner struggled against our limp pass defense in practice.
Hell if he turned into Ted Ginn it would be an improvement!!! Honestly I like the guy seems real nice but hes way to small for a QB I mean he got just plumb clobbered last year in his fill in role imagine him getting hit like that 3-5 times a game as a starter!?? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IAEgyrs1FI"]YouTube- Pat White Knocked Out by Ike Taylor - Dolphins Vs. Steelers - January 3, 2010[/ame]
The triumvirate must see something in him worth development or they would not have kept him on the 53 man roster. Give the kid a shot, with his size and other intangibles that make me want to see us give him a shot. I bet Mark Sanchez would love to have him in NY. We are so impatient, I look for him to take some development and turn into a Miles Austin for us. Based on no analytical football skills whatsoever
Truth is - none of us know how he looks. He barely played. We can speculate that he wasn't on the field so he must be horrible - but how long did it take Wake to get on the field? We don't know the whole story. It took our WR long enough to catch up to the QB change - maybe more change wasn't going to help the offense so the FO left him on the bench.
pat turner come from a pro style off. that played against good competition on a weekly basis. the two guys you mention come from very small schools that i think played spread off. the other knock on turner he offers nothing on special teams,but this staff knew that when they made the mistake of drafting him.
Carroll waxing philosophical on player development is precious, given that the kind of "development" he did most at USC was turning the best HS talent in the nation into NFL underachievers with character issues.
you don't dradft a guy in the 3rd rd that can't play special teams! potential there is a coaches saying about potential." your potential is what will get me fired."
